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How has Immonen been in Training Camp

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Old
09-24-2006, 09:46 PM
  #26
IanB
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After 3 games:

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanahan
Hossa-Dubinsky-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Ward

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09-24-2006, 10:14 PM
  #27
Janerixon
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Originally Posted by Prooooocha View Post
huh? i thought the knock on Immonen was that he wasn't speedy and may not be fast enough for the NHL.
i dont think speed has anything to do with his poor play, he seemed to skate fine and was able to keep up with action, and i highly doubt renney would put a slow forward out on the pk, he didn't create anything offensively and was pretty invisible the entire game except for the good 20 second PK and he drew a penalty, but he isnt very consistent and i feel he would benefit from moving to wing as oppossed to center

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09-24-2006, 10:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by stryfe426 View Post
After 3 games:

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanahan
Hossa-Dubinsky-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Ward
take out hossa and insert moore or dawes IMO

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09-24-2006, 11:18 PM
  #29
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I hate to be the one to break this to you but sports is 100% about "what have you done for me lately." If Immonen plays a couple of strong games and Dubinsky plays like he did last night you can throw the first week of training camp out the window. Using your logic Dubinsky might as well get an apartment in Manhatten and Immonen might as well not show up to camp anymore. Not only is it close it's probably closer than both of us think.
Oh gee, thanks for the news flash, I feel so enlightened......But seriously, if you read my post instead of jumping to concluison you would note that I said Dubisnky is ahead now but there was still two more weeks....Plenty or room for your "Lately"...The point I was making is that tides aren't turned and decision aren't made based on ONE game...Two, three or four weeks is another story and why Immonen still has a chance...now and when the season starts...And Fletch, Dubinsky is ahead now (I'm betting) not just becuase of the play in the games, but also the play in practices, scrimmages, the pre-season tournament, as well as possibly what Renney might perceive as a bigger need on the team (but that's just a guess on my part)....

ANd indeed, it is not really a two man rac but a probably a battle for two spots betweem Dubisnky, Immo, Dawes, Moore and whoever...Noboy should have a positiono sewedf up yet...

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09-25-2006, 06:01 AM
  #30
Ola
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Something that defenitly can be said of Immonen is that he could hold his own in the NHL.

I am abit worried after watching Dubinsky against Florida. He just didn't play up to par for a NHL center, against pretty weak opponents.

When the NHL had the redline offside there where room in the game for centers who wheren't good in the transition game. The length between the D's and the forwards where much shorter, never more then half a zone. The transition game where more of a physical battle then passing and skating.

Without the redline offside its not unusual that we see a situation like this; Dawes are pressuring the puck in the attacking zone. Jason Ward sits back on the attacking blueline on the right side, Dubinsky are on the left side at the redline, while our two D's are at our defensive blueline.

The D that Dawes are pressuring sends a long pass and a Florida forwards tips it into out zone. Its now Dubinsky's job/duty to be the link between our D's and Dawes and Ward. Floridas D are back in their end gooing forward, Floridas forwards are huslting to pressure our D. There is allot of room in the neutralzone for a center to come back, recive a pass, and skate/pass the puck through the neutral zone and get it down deep. Having a center that can do that are extremely valuble, so valuble that its almost a must today, and I think Nylander, Betts and Moore did a great job for us here last season, Rucchin where avg but still got it done.


Against Florida Dubinsky didn't do that, he shyed away. Often slowed down and waited for Dawes or Ward/or Hollweg or Ward, to come back and take care of the transition game. Florida got extra time to set up in the neutral zone, and we lost our momentum. Early in the game when he did go back he never managed to set up a play that took the puck from his end to the attacking zone. The game against Florida where special, it where hot in the arena, the ice where heavy, and Florida had a bad roster, so these situations happend just about everyshift. In closer games there are less situations like that which actually would benefit Dubinsky individually, becaues he can hide it better.

It where only one game, and I can't say for sure that Dubinsky just where extremely nervous or something like that. But to me it seemed like Dubi just don't have it in him yet, and with the system we play I think this ability is a must for our centers.

It where also obvious how much more Dubinsky got involved in the attacking zone when he played with both Dawes and Ward in the end, thoose two really covered for him. Maybe maybe they would be able to do that during the regular season for a while, but I don't think Renney wants to go that route. Its much safer from many aspects to let him work on it for a few month in HFD.

I am betting that this will take Dubinsky out of the equation for atleast a few month, I really hope I am wrong cause I love many other aspects of his game, but if it does we are down to Hollweg and Immonen.

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09-25-2006, 08:32 AM
  #31
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I wouldn't 'worry' about Dubinsky...

I agree about his play against Florida, but I'm not worried because he's 20 years old and I think he's showed a fair amount thus far. I think he needs work on where to be, and when to be there, and other nuances (many of the 'little things' I spoke about Immonen having but Dubi lacked in the only game in which I've ever seen him - and those little things are what made the bottom two lines successful despite not scoring much). I think the next game is important for him to see how he progresses from the last game. He could be a quick study and could continue to make progress towards being in the opening lineup. But as I mentioned previously, I think he was ahead of the curve for the Devils game due to him honing his game in the rookie tourney. I think others may've caught up (I could be totally wrong there, but I firmly believe that a player has an advantage timing and conditioning-wise if he's played in a few games compared to someone who hasn't), and now the games will start getting tougher. He's a big kid with good tools and nice speed - further, he works hard, so he definitely can bounce back.

I too liked Dawes - although not as much as everyone else. I think if he doesn't score a goal people don't get as excited, and I act like he didn't score that goal because 99 times out of 100 in the NHL regular season, it doesn't go in. What I continue to look for is to see if he's a guy who can hold his own in the NHL. I thought last season he was that guy, and I think he's only gotten better. I'm not sure there's much for him to do in the AHL, except maybe score 40 goals, but I'm not sure his skill level or nose for the net will get much better there. If there's room on wing (and it may mean Hall or Ward move to center), I think that as of now, perhaps he should get the shot.

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09-25-2006, 09:02 AM
  #32
Ola
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Fleetch- I can't say I am all that worried for Dubinsky's future, not if I go by what I saw in HFD and what expections I had then, like in the best case scenario he might be ready for a bottom two line role this season. I think we all thought that before this camp.

At the same time reading the reports from camp on him, before I saw him against Florida, I thought he would have developt allot from last year, and defenitly was expecting a Dubinsky on the verge of beeing a 2nd line center, instead I found someone maybe not beeing on the verge of beeing a 4th line center...

Its great that he scored a goal on Brodeur, if its in a NHL game I would say that he would have had a great game be cause of it. But this is camp and the results don't matter squat, he could have had a hat-trick.

If he can pick up a resemblance of a transition game, while getting allot of help from Dawes and Ward, I still belive he might be a long shot to make it, which I would love. Because once he is on a line that will work defensivly and can get the puck down low, he is a big threat and would be really valuble. He only needs to get there. IMO his potential haven't changed a bit, but maybe the timeframe to get there have...

On Dawes: I agree. That goal didn't mean anything, other then boosting his confidence. But he had allot of other oppertunitys. Dawes trademark is to jump out of the blue when a oppertunity arise, and he always puts a quality shot on net. I am not worried that he won't produce from a 3rd line. He is a real low maintainance scorer, don't need anyone to set him up ect to get on the board. He reads the ice so well, and are always moving his feets + that he have a goalscorers hands. He have also shown that he can help out allot in other areas of the game, especially contributing to the puck possesion game that Renney uses.

I think he especially improved his game in the neutral zone, and on the rush, last season in HFD. I've always felt that Nigel needed to be a 2-way player to make it in the NHL. He will never be a elite player on the rush like MSL and can't live on his offensive skills alone. He still haven't played a single game in the NHL, but last night showed better 2-way skills then many veterans do, I love to see that from a supposed 58 sniper from the WHL.

Dawes have always been kind of a questionmark for me, now I think he might become a star!


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Old
09-25-2006, 09:22 AM
  #33
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Something I also liked was to see guys like Adam Hall and Brendan Shanahan pass the puck, and moving around in the attacking zone really well. I thought it would be hard to play guys like Prucha and Dawes with our bigger players in Shanahan and Hall, because all 4 are more of finnishers then playmakers.

While I expected some from Shanny he defenitly have suprised me with how creative he is in all aspects of the game, not only getting in position to shot, but to set someone up ect.

And I defenitly didn't expect much of that from Hall, but he have also moved the puck really well.

Renney have said that he wants players who sees the ice well, he got it in Adam Hall.

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09-25-2006, 10:09 AM
  #34
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All Dawes does...

is succeed at each level and continue to improve (who said that, jas?). Compared to last season, I think he's getting more quality chances off. A lot of chances in last year's preseason seemed similar to the one on which he scored his goal - shots from the outside that is. It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a guy like Nylander at center, or even Cullen, just to see how much his game gets elevated playing with guys like that.

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09-25-2006, 10:38 AM
  #35
True Blue
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is succeed at each level and continue to improve (who said that, jas?).
Oooh...oooh...me...me (think Mr, Kotter). But I will gladly share the credit with a fine, upstanding young man like jas.

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09-25-2006, 10:48 AM
  #36
Fletch
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OK Horseshack..

I hear ya...

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09-25-2006, 06:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Oooh...oooh...me...me (think Mr, Kotter). But I will gladly share the credit with a fine, upstanding young man like jas.
I don't recall saying that, but just to be called a fine, upstanding young man is rather nice at my age.

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09-25-2006, 11:02 PM
  #38
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hey fletch

was at the game tonight, thought immo had a rough first period but really looked good in the 2nd period, nice assist and good deflection goal by being around the net, saw him throw to hits on one shift and was pleased with that

3rd period, didnt really notice him much, but didnt really notice much of anyone on the team to be honest, my sticking points as far as his weaknesses are his lack of consistentcy on shifts, he seems to be unoticeable or he makes plays, his speed is defintely lacking, his stickhandling through the neutral zone (in open ice isnt all there yet) and his stamina, if you watch him (as i did for this thread) he takes really short shifts, 30 seconds being his tops, maybe hes not in game shape, but he seemed to the the first one to change on his line

dawes didnt impress me as much today as he did the other night, he bounced around a bit, had one chance at a goal but his stick was tied up, had some nice passes but didnt really do much of anything else

greg moore, this is still my goal, he can stickhandle, skate, hustle, shoot, and use his body, he did however get knocked around alot tonight, but he had that breakaway, stickhandled really well creating plays, and i just like his play, especially his positioning

if immo continues to play like he did tonight, dubinsky is going to have to work harder to win that 3rd or 4th line spot over him

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09-26-2006, 07:43 AM
  #39
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I don't recall saying that, but just to be called a fine, upstanding young man is rather nice at my age.
Fine, have it your way. It was all me, me, me.

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09-26-2006, 08:41 AM
  #40
Fletch
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jan...

I do not disagree with you on his speed. He's not quick that's for sure. His puckhanding is actually best when he slows things up, and even when he has a guy hanging over him than when he's going through the neutral zone. He prefers to pass it off and let someone else carry it in. What I did like about last night is his awareness in front of his own net. He seemed to no where to be, and that's important. I also agree about conditioning. There was only one incident, but he looked a bit too tired on one PK (although about 10 seconds later I noticed Jason Ward sucking wind out there with him also), but conditioning crossed my mind and it's something to keep an eye out for.

What seemed to affect all the fowards is the inability of the defensemen to get the puck up ice, either from crisp outlet passes or carrying it up. I think that hurt the flow at times and resulted in some disjointed shifts.

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09-27-2006, 01:57 AM
  #41
Leslie Treff
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Immonen looked like an NHLer on Monday night. He won almost all his face offs (I think it was 9 of 11 in the first 2 periods, never got the stats after period 3), and he was very good positionally. Dawes had a very poor game. Seemed to get pushed around alot, was out of position and missed crucial passes. However, this was the first game in which he looked pretty bad. Moore had an uneven game, but does not look NHL ready to me. He has had a good camp, but unless he shows more, I just can't see him taking a spot on the team.

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09-27-2006, 10:56 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
Immonen looked like an NHLer on Monday night. He won almost all his face offs (I think it was 9 of 11 in the first 2 periods, never got the stats after period 3), and he was very good positionally. Dawes had a very poor game. Seemed to get pushed around alot, was out of position and missed crucial passes. However, this was the first game in which he looked pretty bad. Moore had an uneven game, but does not look NHL ready to me. He has had a good camp, but unless he shows more, I just can't see him taking a spot on the team.
Who had the better game, Shanahan or Dawes?

Bad/good games don't matter much IMO. I think looking at Dawes as a hockeyplayer that he is showing that he are good enough to play in the NHL.

My point is just, if someone scores a hat trick, someone misses two wide open nets, someone lands a big hit, what does it matter in the end. If we would judge vets by the same standard, what roster would we then end up with. Aaron Ward, quite frankly, have been dooing nothing but running around looking for big plays, and failed this preseason. Still we can see his game is there. Shanny are missing everything, how many shots have he had?

Dwight Helminen missed two wide open chances, and allot of people are making a really big deal of it. I couldn't care less, first of all, scoring while you are standing alone infront of the goalie is easier then many other chances, but it aint easy, if someone would reserach it I would bet that maybe 60% of thoose kind of oppertunitys are converted, over short period of times it just comes down to %.

What matters to me is that Helminen in fact are small and pretty weak, and in fact aren't very good with the puck.

Nothing personally Leslie, just think that people in general looks far to much on what results a player gets, and not how he is playing hockey, during the preseason. Especially thoose who targeted Helminen after missing thoose chances...

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