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Salo Eat Conkers Dust

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Old
11-19-2003, 12:38 AM
  #1
Grimrock Alberta
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Salo Eat Conkers Dust

Incase you haven't noticed we already have a new number one goalie. The Edmonton coaching staff just isn't ready to admit it. How much more proof do you need than Conkers last string of games. He's awsome. Let Salo go. Free up some salary and lets move on. Ty is more than capable of being the Oilers number one man. Does anyone disagree?

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11-19-2003, 01:29 AM
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Yanner39
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Don't know yet. He does look poised and very confident. He plays the puck alot better than Salo. I dunno, if they got a veteran goalie to back him up, then I'd be a bit more confident.

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11-19-2003, 02:15 AM
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Meanashell11
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I agree he has looked impressive but the Oil are about due for their 8 game downswing, 8 up and 8 down,, story of the last 3 seasons. So before I would write Salo's obit I would like to see Conk where the team is not playing so determined. If we want an experienced back up then why not salo, no one will take him off our hands anyway.

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11-19-2003, 04:52 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Meanashell11
I agree he has looked impressive but the Oil are about due for their 8 game downswing, 8 up and 8 down,, story of the last 3 seasons. So before I would write Salo's obit I would like to see Conk where the team is not playing so determined. If we want an experienced back up then why not salo, no one will take him off our hands anyway.
$3.9M is way too much for a backup goalie in Edmonton. If Salo can't beat Conks to be #1 then he should be outta here.

 
Old
11-19-2003, 05:02 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
$3.9M is way too much for a backup goalie in Edmonton. If Salo can't beat Conks to be #1 then he should be outta here.
And what happens if Conks gets hurt? Or what if the wheels fall off (it's not like it's unlikely for a goaltender to struggle in his first full year)?

Conklin has made 5 starts in a row... 4 of them have been against teams at or below .500... let's wait until the Oilers play the Avalanch and Wings over a 3 day span, or when they have 3 games in 7 days and 2 of them are against the Canucks before we start the trade Salo for a 32nd round pick talk.

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11-19-2003, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
And what happens if Conks gets hurt? Or what if the wheels fall off (it's not like it's unlikely for a goaltender to struggle in his first full year)?

Conklin has made 5 starts in a row... 4 of them have been against teams at or below .500... let's wait until the Oilers play the Avalanch and Wings over a 3 day span, or when they have 3 games in 7 days and 2 of them are against the Canucks before we start the trade Salo for a 32nd round pick talk.
Maybe they better play Valiquette to see what he can do.

Notice that I said if Salo can't beat out Conks.

You think we can afford a $3.9M backup but can't afford Comrie? Financial responsibilty should always apply, not just when it is convenient.

 
Old
11-19-2003, 05:35 AM
  #7
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If they start playing Salo if Conk's is still hot I will be upset. I can just see MacT sitting on of the leagues hottest goalies to go with Salo.

Does anyone think that that the Oilers better play in their defensive end has anything to do with the fact that Conklin can actually play the puck. I've even seen him clear the zone a couple times while on the PK.

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11-19-2003, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Maybe they better play Valiquette to see what he can do.

Notice that I said if Salo can't beat out Conks.

You think we can afford a $3.9M backup but can't afford Comrie? Financial responsibilty should always apply, not just when it is convenient.
It's like arguing with stone... fine, what exactly do you do with Salo then? He is 32, and has been injured... what is the market for that?

Or what, buy him out? That's a soild waste of money.

And what if Conks gets hurt? Or he gets into a rough stretch?

You want to rely on Valiquette? I don't, I have seen him play this year.

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11-19-2003, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chit94
If they start playing Salo if Conk's is still hot I will be upset. I can just see MacT sitting on of the leagues hottest goalies to go with Salo.

Does anyone think that that the Oilers better play in their defensive end has anything to do with the fact that Conklin can actually play the puck. I've even seen him clear the zone a couple times while on the PK.
Salo isn't even skating yet... couple that with the fact that if Conks plays all the games until Salo is ready, maybe Salo should get the start (Conks has already played 5 in a row, and it looks like it will be at least another 5-7 before Salo is back, which is around rest time for a regular starter).

You have to ride the hot goalie, but you also have to rest him from time to time as well.

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11-19-2003, 06:15 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
And what happens if Conks gets hurt? Or what if the wheels fall off (it's not like it's unlikely for a goaltender to struggle in his first full year)?

Conklin has made 5 starts in a row... 4 of them have been against teams at or below .500... let's wait until the Oilers play the Avalanch and Wings over a 3 day span, or when they have 3 games in 7 days and 2 of them are against the Canucks before we start the trade Salo for a 32nd round pick talk.
i agree with dawgbone here... frankly, i feel that one of the things pushing Ty to play well is the fact that he knows he is trying to earn the job. without tommy pushing him i think conks would lose some of the edge he has shown.

also, this is the first time tommy's job has been threatened. i think this new pressure *could* be just what salo needs to round into form. he must realize now that, if he doesn't pull his socks up, he's not going to be here next year. if the oilers wind up the season with conks i can guarantee they won't pick up tommy's option - and i'm sure he knows that.

while i agree that 3.9 mil is too much for a backup i think we can also agree that we don't want a repeat of Essensa/Shtalenkov. let tommy ride out the year and make a decision in the offseason. hell, lowe could deal comrie at the draft for a goalie if tommy wraps the season with continued poor play - maybe biron? noronen?

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Old
11-19-2003, 06:17 AM
  #11
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Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm not quite ready to hand over the #1 job to Conklin after a half dozen games. Call me overly cautious, but I'm not yet sold on his ability to handle the minutes. I would say at this point his play has earned the right to stay in net until he cools off, and afterwards maybe even platoon w/ Salo instead of just playing 10-15 games. Throwing Salo to the scrap heap now is not only nearly impossible (no goalie market, too expensive to buy him out), but IMO less than prudent. Unless Lowe finds a sucker, we may as well get used to the fact that Salo will be here at least until the end of the year...THEN if Conklin has shown during the season he's ready, Lowe can deal with Salo more easily.

Conklin's stats ARE exellent right now, but so are Martin Gerber's.

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Old
11-19-2003, 07:54 AM
  #12
ZIM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
fine, what exactly do you do with Salo then? He is 32, and has been injured... what is the market for that?

Or what, buy him out? That's a soild waste of money.

And what if Conks gets hurt? Or he gets into a rough stretch?

You want to rely on Valiquette? I don't, I have seen him play this year.
Last attempt.
1. I say play Valiquette so we can judge his potential as a backup. You may have seen him play but his NHL experience to date is 6 games, 2 wins, 0 losses, 1.87 GAA.
2. When Salo is ready let him earn his job back. If he earns it - fine.
3. Assuming Salo is a backup and Valiquette has proved adequate then I suggest we trade Salo if possible and if not then buy him out. Buying him out saves the club money - period.
4. If Valiquette proves to be inadequate and Salo is the backup then trade Salo for an adequate backup, including being willing to pay part of Salo's salary as long as the bill for the new goalie and Salo is <= $3.9M. Only if you can't do a trade do you keep Salo.
5. If Salo is gone and Conklin gets hurt then buy a short term goalie. This seemed to present no problem for management at centre when we spent $1.95M on Oates so I suggest we can find a goalie.

Have I left anything out?

 
Old
11-19-2003, 08:29 AM
  #13
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Last attempt.
1. I say play Valiquette so we can judge his potential as a backup. You may have seen him play but his NHL experience to date is 6 games, 2 wins, 0 losses, 1.87 GAA.
2. When Salo is ready let him earn his job back. If he earns it - fine.
3. Assuming Salo is a backup and Valiquette has proved adequate then I suggest we trade Salo if possible and if not then buy him out. Buying him out saves the club money - period.
4. If Valiquette proves to be inadequate and Salo is the backup then trade Salo for an adequate backup, including being willing to pay part of Salo's salary as long as the bill for the new goalie and Salo is <= $3.9M. Only if you can't do a trade do you keep Salo.
5. If Salo is gone and Conklin gets hurt then buy a short term goalie. This seemed to present no problem for management at centre when we spent $1.95M on Oates so I suggest we can find a goalie.

Have I left anything out?
We could find a goalie but from a position of weakness? Conklin goes down and our goalies are Valiquette and Morrison or Antila, the other GMs will bleed Lowe dry.

What is the urgency to trade Salo? I mean, we want to get top value, in some case over fair market value for Comrie and yet we are willing to give Salo for nothing.

Sorry, I wasn't comfortable going into the season with Conklin and Markennen. I'm certainly not at ease having Valiquette and Conklin. I don't get why we would want to play with fire.

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11-19-2003, 08:36 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by ZIM
3. Assuming Salo is a backup and Valiquette has proved adequate then I suggest we trade Salo if possible and if not then buy him out. Buying him out saves the club money - period.
That would be horrible asset management. I doubt it would save much money as well, since the Oilers have paid him for 18 games or ~22% of the season (~$860 000), if they buy him out at $2.6M (standard 2/3 buy-out), then they would only save ~$500 000. Might as well keep him until the end of the year, then not pick up the team option on his contract.. I doubt anyone will pick him up for picks at the deadline either.

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11-19-2003, 08:40 AM
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Agreed - dumping Salo for nothing or a buy-out at this point makes little financial or hockey sense. Hey if someone is willing to eat his contract whole - that's another story - but if you believe that I have some ocean-front property in High Level for you.

The time to dump Salo has always been at the trade deadline. Most of his salary will be paid - so that's not a concern - and the the team aquiring him will hold his team options. The options are not worth much now - but if Salo can come back and play well in tandem with Conklin then that re-builds his trade value. This is by far the smartest strategy as we have ZERO goalie depth in the system and Salo's value is at an all time low.

As usual - be patient

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Agreed - dumping Salo for nothing or a buy-out at this point makes little financial or hockey sense. Hey if someone is willing to eat his contract whole - that's another story - but if you believe that I have some ocean-front property in High Level for you.

The time to dump Salo has always been at the trade deadline. Most of his salary will be paid - so that's not a concern - and the the team aquiring him will hold his team options. The options are not worth much now - but if Salo can come back and play well in tandem with Conklin then that re-builds his trade value. This is by far the smartest strategy as we have ZERO goalie depth in the system and Salo's value is at an all time low.

As usual - be patient
I agree with being patient and think its pre-mature to name Conklin no.1 and declare Tommy ready for the garbage heap. Lets suppose worse comes to worse and Tommy comes back and flops, no one will take him off waivers while Conklin proves no.1 capable, what do you think of doing something similair to the Dopita incident where we sign him to another team in Europe i.e.finnish or swedish elite league where they pay $1.1-1.3million to have him for a year as their keeper so were only on the hook for $2.8 to $2.6million. Tommy still has celebrity status over there and did win a gold medal is it that far fetched?

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:19 AM
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Asiaoil
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Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I agree with being patient and think its pre-mature to name Conklin no.1 and declare Tommy ready for the garbage heap. Lets suppose worse comes to worse and Tommy comes back and flops, no one will take him off waivers while Conklin proves no.1 capable, what do you think of doing something similair to the Dopita incident where we sign him to another team in Europe i.e.finnish or swedish elite league where they pay $1.1-1.3million to have him for a year as their keeper so were only on the hook for $2.8 to $2.6million. Tommy still has celebrity status over there and did win a gold medal is it that far fetched?
I don't know - the Swedish press and public just savaged the guy after the "Belarus Goal". That does not solve our depth problem either - but after the trade deadline we only have 12 games or so you could risk it. My new dream scanario is:

Isbister for Rachunek at any time
Comrie for Blackburn and a pick at the deadline
Salo to a contender for a pick at the deadline

Add Rachunek to the d-corp and run with Conks and Blackburn in net

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hooty mcboobs
That would be horrible asset management. I doubt it would save much money as well, since the Oilers have paid him for 18 games or ~22% of the season (~$860 000), if they buy him out at $2.6M (standard 2/3 buy-out), then they would only save ~$500 000. Might as well keep him until the end of the year, then not pick up the team option on his contract.. I doubt anyone will pick him up for picks at the deadline either.
*ding ding ding*
We have a winner. We're not saving enough money to buyout Salo's contract to offset the risk involved in doing so.

If we miss the playoffs thats a Min. of 2 gates, @ $800,000-$1,000,000 a gate. That in turn covers the insurance of $500,000 for Salo quite handily. I'm also guessing we have Valiquette on a two way contract, so its going to further cut into our "savings" of Salo's salary probably about $300,000-$500,000.

Quick notes:
Buyout Salo = +$500,000
Pay Val...... = -$300,000
Miss playoffs= -$1.8 Mill?

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
I don't know - the Swedish press and public just savaged the guy after the "Belarus Goal". That does not solve our depth problem either - but after the trade deadline we only have 12 games or so you could risk it. My new dream scanario is:

Isbister for Rachunek at any time
Comrie for Blackburn and a pick at the deadline
Salo to a contender for a pick at the deadline

Add Rachunek to the d-corp and run with Conks and Blackburn in net
wouldn't THAT be a tidy little scenario... ah, to dream the impossible dream!

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:54 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Isbister for Rachunek at any time
Comrie for Blackburn and a pick at the deadline
Salo to a contender for a pick at the deadline

Add Rachunek to the d-corp and run with Conks and Blackburn in net
I still want to give Izzy a chance to round into playing shape before I'd consider trading him. He can become a force if he can stop getting those look-out-passes and sticks in the face. Size matters on the way to, and for the ability to battle to stay in that blue painted area. He can skate, has got a decent shot and will fight and I don't think he's been dogging-it, so I'm still wanting to see if he will develop as hoped for.

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11-19-2003, 11:40 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Take off Hose Head
Incase you haven't noticed we already have a new number one goalie. The Edmonton coaching staff just isn't ready to admit it. How much more proof do you need than Conkers last string of games. He's awsome. Let Salo go. Free up some salary and lets move on. Ty is more than capable of being the Oilers number one man. Does anyone disagree?
Looks like everyone disagrees. Its too short a time and too early to designate Conklin as the #1 goalie. And as the other posters have said, what happens if Conklin is injured or goes into a dry spell? We go with Valiquette who is another unproven AHL netminder? This does not sound like a playoff contending team.

Conklin's play has given the Oilers the luxury of letting Salo heal and heal to 100% before he gets a shot at playing again. In the past, the Oilers would have let Salo heal only up to 80% and thrown him to the wolves again.

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Old
11-19-2003, 02:52 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by hooty mcboobs
That would be horrible asset management. I doubt it would save much money as well, since the Oilers have paid him for 18 games or ~22% of the season (~$860 000), if they buy him out at $2.6M (standard 2/3 buy-out), then they would only save ~$500 000. Might as well keep him until the end of the year, then not pick up the team option on his contract.. I doubt anyone will pick him up for picks at the deadline either.
saving ~$500,000 is bad management?

 
Old
11-19-2003, 05:11 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by ZIM
I say play Valiquette so we can judge his potential as a backup.
Not this again....

Okay.....when? This is not pre-season. You can't gauge if he's good enough in 1 or 2 games. I mean to the extent of shipping Salo.

Please don't say you're looking for 5 or more games.

The Oilers can't afford to do this. The playoff race started 18 games ago.

The only way I want to see Valiquette in, is if Salo is still hurt.....and Conklin starts getting fatigued. And that would be 1 game at most. Unless Conks built a "temple of suck" in his previous few starts.

Then I would only start Vali again if he were stellar in his first game.

I think Conks will play until Salo returns. I'm not Ken Lowe, but I'll just assume 5 more games. By then Conks will be pretty tired. But I think he's pretty capable.

The guys likely running off alot of adrenaline right now.

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11-19-2003, 05:24 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
Not this again....

Okay.....when? This is not pre-season. You can't gauge if he's good enough in 1 or 2 games. I mean to the extent of shipping Salo.

Please don't say you're looking for 5 or more games.

The Oilers can't afford to do this. The playoff race started 18 games ago.

The only way I want to see Valiquette in, is if Salo is still hurt.....and Conklin starts getting fatigued. And that would be 1 game at most. Unless Conks built a "temple of suck" in his previous few starts.

Then I would only start Vali again if he were stellar in his first game.

I think Conks will play until Salo returns. I'm not Ken Lowe, but I'll just assume 5 more games. By then Conks will be pretty tired. But I think he's pretty capable.

The guys likely running off alot of adrenaline right now.
I was asked to explain what I would do and so I responded. You will note that in my plan Salo doesn't go anywhere until step 3 and only after he has been given a shot at being #1 again. If Salo can beat out Conklin (step 2) I am happy and am willing to pay him his $3.9M, he stays and Conklin is the backup.

I have seen nothing that says when Salo would be back. Are we going to play Conklin every game until when? Valiquette should be given a shot against selected opposition, just like our opponents do when they play their 2nd stringer against us. Management has willing to play so far without a bonafide centre, I'm suggesting we find out just how desparate our goaltending situation is. We should be thankful that we have the opportunity this early in the season as opposed to later on, like after the trade deadline.

 
Old
11-19-2003, 05:25 PM
  #25
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Lots of very good points made here, this is the best goalie thread I've ever read.

My two cents:
Conklin's wins are against Chi, Cal, Minn, NYR, and Buff. He allowed 8 goals in those 5 games. He lost against Bos (4 goals) and Colorado (6 goals).

Overall he played well most of the time, but 7 good games can't make him a starter, nor could 7 bad games make Tommy a has-been.

Conks is getting a good run here to show what he's made of, but Tommy has to get another decent shot b4 we throw in the towel. Especially with the addition of Oates. No sense in finally signing a decent ufa and then ushering in a new Shtalenkov/Essensa era like someone else mentioned.


This page has the Oilers' sched complete with starting goalies and final scores; http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teamsched?team=edm

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