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Immonen or Dubinsky?

View Poll Results: Who would you choose to center 3/4th line?
Immonen 97 65.99%
Dubinsky 40 27.21%
Neither (let Hollweg and open a spot for Dawes) 10 6.80%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-27-2006, 05:20 PM
  #26
Edge
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Don't you think that Dubinsky logging quality minutes in Hartford will do more for his game than playing 4th line center for the Rangers?
Personally I'd play him as the third line center until he gets comfortable and then (if he earned it) start moving him to the second line at the end of the season.

Which goes hand in hand with with my views on Betts. I think Betts is a solid 4th line center, but I don't think he's a third line center.

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09-27-2006, 05:27 PM
  #27
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Immo over Dubi, but let's see tonight if anyone shines a bit more.

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09-27-2006, 05:30 PM
  #28
Edge
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What's sad is that with Immo's talent and the age difference between the two, it REALLY shouldn't even be a debate at this point.

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09-27-2006, 05:36 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally I'd play him as the third line center until he gets comfortable and then (if he earned it) start moving him to the second line at the end of the season.

Which goes hand in hand with with my views on Betts. I think Betts is a solid 4th line center, but I don't think he's a third line center.
Agree on Betts.

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09-27-2006, 05:44 PM
  #30
Edge
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So essentially if it was my call I'd go with:

Nylander
Cullen
Dubinsky
Betts

As the season goes I'd occasionally move Dubinsky up to the second or down to the fourth lines. I think if it balances out to a good 10-15 minutes a night that's worth it. Not that he couldn't get a ton of time in the AHL, but I think he could certainly handle the NHL and would blend in very well.

He's a rookie, he's going to make mistakes, but I also think he could handle it.

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09-27-2006, 08:03 PM
  #31
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I have to agree with most of you and go with immonen. I think hes ready for the NHL.

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09-27-2006, 09:51 PM
  #32
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I can't say that I'm a big fan of promoting Immonen over Dubinsky just because of senority. Right now I think Dubinsky has outplayed Immonen in camp, and I think you have to reward him the spot.
imo, both Dawes and Dubinsky have earned spots on the roster, though i don't believe both will get what they deserve.

We all knew that some prospects where going to fall by the way side as competition between them increased. If Immonen can't beat out a player 5 years his junior in a fair competition then he's going to be one of those prospects.

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09-28-2006, 12:00 AM
  #33
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There were two special little plays I noticed from Immonen in the last game and in tonight's game against the Bruins that impressed me. One was against the Islanders where he gained the zone, but was immediately stood up by the Islanders defenceman. Despite the guy being in his face and stopping him cold, Immonen made sure that the puck kept moving right into the path of his LW. The play didn't go anywhere, but it was neat to see. Tonight, when he backchecked to steal the puck and get it over to Adam Hall on the goalscoring play, again he made sure that the puck went to one of his players.

I don't think either play was an accident. Whether it's enough for him to make the team or not is debatable, but Immonen really can read the play and really does know where his teammates are on the ice at any time.

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09-28-2006, 12:05 AM
  #34
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i think immo will really settle in once he makes the team... i mean there is a lot of pressure on him considering his age and the fact that dubi is making such strides. but we all seem to agree that, so far, dubi has impressed us more than immo. that said we still all seem to think that immo will start the season in NY. and like i said, who knows, maybe once he knows he's made the team he will settle down. I loved him last year in his brief 6-game stint

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Old
09-28-2006, 07:12 AM
  #35
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I was at the game last night. Both Immo and Dubi made nice plays. Immo, though not flashy, had a solid game. He has had a hand in the Rangers' last three goals.I was particularly impressed by his defensive awareness and backchecking. The backchecking led to the only goal of the game. Further, his vision and passes were pretty good. Dubi made some nice plays and showed a feistiness which is refreshing. His ceiling is quite high. Nevertheless, IMO, a half season in Hartford will help his career. Therefore, Immo makes the team.

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Old
09-28-2006, 08:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
What's sad is that with Immo's talent and the age difference between the two, it REALLY shouldn't even be a debate at this point.
imo the big debate isn't really immonen vs dubinsky but rather is dubinsky better off in ny or in hartford...

i think right now immonen and dubinsky are pretty much on par with each other...when a kid at 20 is at the same level as a 24 year old, its pretty obvious that the expected potential of the 20 year old is much higher cause you expect him to get better and in 4 years be alot better than the other guy was at the same age...but that doesn't mean its in the 20 year olds best interest to stick with the big club if he isn't gonna get the ice time...

if dubinsky gets 3rd line minutes then no question he should stay...but if its 4th line duty with questionable ice time than you have to question if he'd be better off in hartford.

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Old
09-28-2006, 08:08 AM
  #37
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as for the 'neither' option suggesting hollweg plays center so dawes can get a spot...dawes should get a spot on LW even with hollweg playing there. screw hossa, dawes is better than him...

straka, prucha, dawes, hollweg down the left...nylander, cullen, betts, dubinsky/immonen down the middle...jagr, shanny, hall, ward down the right.

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Old
09-28-2006, 08:54 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
imo the big debate isn't really immonen vs dubinsky but rather is dubinsky better off in ny or in hartford...

i think right now immonen and dubinsky are pretty much on par with each other....
I think it comes down to the type of line combos Renney wants to roll. If the open center position is between Hossa and Ward, I'd be inclined to put Dubinsky there. If it's Dawes and Hall, I'd prefer Immonen. Since you could make a good case for either, you almost have to let the unknows fall into place first.

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Old
09-28-2006, 09:02 AM
  #39
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Immonen today...

Dubinsky tomorrow. I think Immonen's developed a bit more seasoning and has far greater awareness out there than Brandon at this point. Dubi has a good deal more talent and skill and will ultimately be a better player, but out there, the play too often goes by him, especially in the defensive zone. Immonen has good defensive awareness and while we're looking for more offense, one thing to remember was much of last season's success was defense from the forwards, and Dubi's just not there yet.

One funny thing is that Immonen has been tosses aside by most analysts. Micheletti barely mentions him while gushing about Dawes and Dubinsky. The one goal last night was set up by a very good backchecking job by Immonen, who then tapped the puck to Straka who went on his way. Michiletti's take on the play (the Rangers with a nice backcheck start the play up ice (not Immonen)). And then last in the third he came to us with shocking news that Immonen has had his hand in the Rangers' last three points and is making a late push (although it's tough to say late since it started with the preseason's third game, his second)). And in today's Post Larry mentions keeping either Dubinsky or Dawes, without considering Immonen. I find it kind of funny how much he's been dismissed due to the hyping of a couple others.

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09-28-2006, 09:49 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
One funny thing is that Immonen has been tosses aside by most analysts. Micheletti barely mentions him while gushing about Dawes and Dubinsky.
Joe did comment on the fact that Immonen assisted on the last 3 Ranger goals and gave him credited for starting the play that Hall scored on.

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Old
09-28-2006, 10:15 AM
  #41
Fletch
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I know MJ...

I stated that in my post and pointed out the credit wasn't given until the third when someone passed Joe a piece of paper stating that Immonen had his hand in the last three Rangers goal - thought that a guy that's the analyst on the Rangers may've mentioned something earlier - (he mentioned Immonen's making a last preseason push - after 5 first period shots and an assist - if he was up on things, perhaps something could've been said more timely). Part of what I'm getting at is that I miss JD. This was one example, but I'm not sold on Michiletti. He seems to be pretty fair, but too often seems like a homer (and I heard too much about the Isles during the Isles game).

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Old
09-28-2006, 11:18 AM
  #42
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Flretch- Your points on Immonen are right on. He is a very heady player. Solid in all areas, not great in any one area. Nevertheless, IMO an asset to the team. I see him playing with Ward and developing a nice chemistry where both will chip in with some goals. I would like him to have the chance to play with Shanny and Prucha.

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09-28-2006, 01:00 PM
  #43
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It would've been interesting...

to have seen him play with Prucha and Shanny, but I don't know what the point would've been. I think Cullen is the best choice for second line center on this team today. He scored 25 goals last season and needs to play 16-17 minutes per night (ES and PP) and he's not going to get that on a third line. He kept up with Straka and Hall and has had his hand in on the last three Rangers goals (spanning three games). I think that means something.

What I will say is this - and Edge has been all over this and this is a point I had made before coming over but stayed away from - he may not be the guy you want out there for more than 12-14 minutes per night. Playing that much, on a third line, is about as much NHL responsibility I'd want to give him. I haven't seen it much because I haven't seen him much, but in Finland, he just wasn't always there. That's not what you want for a second liner. Can he fill-in for three games in case of injury? Why not. 82 games? I don't know now. Immonen's place is third line center. I personally think he'd be on for net more goals for than Betts would be, and thus would be an improvement over Betts (not really a knock against Betts per se, I'm just not convinced of Betts' ability to distribute the puck and get shots off the cycle).

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09-28-2006, 01:02 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
to have seen him play with Prucha and Shanny, but I don't know what the point would've been. I think Cullen is the best choice for second line center on this team today. He scored 25 goals last season and needs to play 16-17 minutes per night (ES and PP) and he's not going to get that on a third line. He kept up with Straka and Hall and has had his hand in on the last three Rangers goals (spanning three games). I think that means something.
I agree, though think he could get that on a third line, which is what he did in Carolina successfully last year. If he could get his production and role working often behind Staal and Brindamour, I doubt he'd have a decline behind Nylander (or eventually maybe) Dubinsky.

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09-28-2006, 01:41 PM
  #45
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With Dawes and Hall...

with him on a third line, it's possible (next season); this season, I think second line is his calling. But it may be difficult for Renney to find 17 minutes on the PP and at ES for him on a third line, especially if he has Jagr out there for 22, and Shanny out there for 18, and if he wants a fourth line to play. I haven't gone through and done an analysis of the numbers, but Betts was somewhere around 13 minutes, but that included minimal PP and PK. Adding 3-4 minutes of non-penalty killing time seems like a lot to get to where he was last season.

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09-28-2006, 01:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
with him on a third line, it's possible (next season); this season, I think second line is his calling. But it may be difficult for Renney to find 17 minutes on the PP and at ES for him on a third line, especially if he has Jagr out there for 22, and Shanny out there for 18, and if he wants a fourth line to play. I haven't gone through and done an analysis of the numbers, but Betts was somewhere around 13 minutes, but that included minimal PP and PK. Adding 3-4 minutes of non-penalty killing time seems like a lot to get to where he was last season.
Agreed. And I think (if everything works) is one reason they got him. The guy can play a few different roles.

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09-28-2006, 02:06 PM
  #47
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Yeah...

I had my skepticisms (he's 30 and has had only two seasons with more than 18 goals), but so far, I like what I've seen.

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Old
09-28-2006, 06:56 PM
  #48
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Neither, let Hollweg play C, as he has proven he can this pre-season, and let Orr and Dawes play

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09-28-2006, 09:42 PM
  #49
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The same people that want to preach what true rebuild is have a problem with a 25 year old playing over another 25 year old....Mind you this is done way before the rosters have been announced and the opening night lineup is set...

I think its laughable to think that Hollweg would be moved to center to give Hossa a spot in the lineup anyway. Not because it would be the worst move in the world but because that would be Renneys one reason for doing it...

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09-29-2006, 08:57 AM
  #50
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SoS...

I've read your second paragraph several times - what are you saying?

Hollweg may be moved to center because Renney may not trust Immonen or Dubsinky to be this team's third line center. Also, I do believe he wants flexibility to have Hossa in the lineup (be it opening night, down the road, or whenever), and Hollweg at center helps accomplish that. Personally, I'm going to be disappointed to see Betts as this team's third line center; until he proves me wrong. Maybe he's better than what I saw last season.

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