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Old
09-30-2006, 01:35 AM
  #1
nyrmessier011
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Expectations are not fair --now it's Brooks' turn

I hate to do it, but I need to start a discussion about the pre season rankings and expectations for the Rangers. It seems as though, atleast in the past ten years, that rankings for the Rangers are either terrible or great. I wonder why this is. Last season Sports Illustrated ranked us 30 out of 30, The New York Post had us 14 of 15 in the East, and THN had us 13th in the East. We suprised everyone with a great showing during the regular season. A revived super star in Jagr, an amazing rookie in Lundqvist, sound defense, and a great season from Nylander/Straka etc. I hate to do this, but why is everyone overrating the **** out of us just because of last season?

This is the type of thing that only causes problems. Look at the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 Rangers. There was always a bunch of jerk "experts", even in the 6th year of overpaid crap players, who predicted us as cup champs. Why do we continue to be expressed as a team who should win the cup again just because we look OK on paper?

The idiotic Boomer Esiason, no disrespect to his football knowledge, says "anything less of the stanley cup is a dissapointment." I cant believe the MSG network allows such garbage to be put on the air. I open my hockey news today, 3nd in the conference. I see John Buccigross' prediction of 3rd in the east. I hate to be the *** who views the glass half empty, but we have a second year goaltender, an offensive leader who is coming off an injury, and a guy who is expected to relieve jagr of some of scoring burden, he's 36 years old. Our team is young, we are still in a "rebuild." I don't doubt that we can win the Atlantic, but it's so nieve to think that it will definetly happen just because of Lundqvist, or because of Jagr.

My point is not to be negative, but to be realistic. We aren't going to win the cup this season. We probably won't win the Atlantic in my opinion. Let's be realistic and think about how 12 months ago we expected to be awful, pick Kessel as the first pick overall, and maybe make the playoffs this year. I won't let a bunch of homer jerks who want to gain attention in their sports column by saying that the New York team will be champions let me down again like in the 2000 days. Let's be real, and hope for the playoffs again. It's time for a reality check. Let's make the playoffs.


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09-30-2006, 01:56 AM
  #2
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I get what you're saying. I'm ignoring all the rankings. I need to see them do it again to show last year was not a fluke before I go agreeing with Boomer about anything less than the Cup is a disappointment. I'm sure that is their mind set on the team, but I'm naturally more of a cautious person to begin with.

I have faith that they can do it again though.

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09-30-2006, 03:02 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmessier011 View Post
I hate to do it, but I need to start a discussion about the pre season rankings and expectations for the Rangers. It seems as though, atleast in the past ten years, that rankings for the Rangers are either terrible or great. I wonder why this is. Last season Sports Illustrated ranked us 30 out of 30, The New York Post had us 14 of 15 in the East, and THN had us 13th in the East. We suprised everyone with a great showing during the regular season. A revived super star in Jagr, an amazing rookie in Lundqvist, sound defense, and a great season from Nylander/Straka etc. I hate to do this, but why is everyone overrating the **** out of us just because of last season?

This is the type of thing that only causes problems. Look at the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 Rangers. There was always a bunch of jerk "experts", even in the 6th year of overpaid crap players, who predicted us as cup champs. Why do we continue to be expressed as a team who should win the cup again just because we look OK on paper?

The idiotic Boomer Esiason, no disrespect to his football knowledge, says "anything less of the stanley cup is a dissapointment." I cant believe the MSG network allows such garbage to be put on the air. I open my hockey news today, 3nd in the conference. I see John Buccigross' prediction of 3rd in the east. I hate to be the *** who views the glass half empty, but we have a second year goaltender, an offensive leader who is coming off an injury, and a guy who is expected to relieve jagr of some of scoring burden, he's 36 years old. Our team is young, we are still in a "rebuild." I don't doubt that we can win the Atlantic, but it's so nieve to think that it will definetly happen just because of Lundqvist, or because of Jagr.

My point is not to be negative, but to be realistic. We aren't going to win the cup this season. We probably won't win the Atlantic in my opinion. Let's be realistic and think about how 12 months ago we expected to be awful, pick Kessel as the first pick overall, and maybe make the playoffs this year. I won't let a bunch of homer jerks who want to gain attention in their sports column by saying that the New York team will be champions let me down again like in the 2000 days. Let's be real, and hope for the playoffs again. It's time for a reality check. Let's make the playoffs.

Yea when he said that I was like uhhh.....well your probably going to be dissapointed there bud. To say any team in the league in this era should make the finals or it would be a dissapointment is a joke.

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09-30-2006, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Yea when he said that I was like uhhh.....well your probably going to be dissapointed there bud. To say any team in the league in this era should make the finals or it would be a dissapointment is a joke.
I had the same reaction Fly. I understand Boomer is more of a fan than a hockey guy, but damn thats too much pressure for this team to expect a cup. Renney put it in a better light when he said the main goal of the team right now is to make the playoffs, but this time get in a top four seeding and get home ice. A small step yes, but a step foward it is.

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09-30-2006, 04:32 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmessier011 View Post
I hate to do it, but I need to start a discussion about the pre season rankings and expectations for the Rangers. It seems as though, atleast in the past ten years, that rankings for the Rangers are either terrible or great. I wonder why this is. Last season Sports Illustrated ranked us 30 out of 30, The New York Post had us 14 of 15 in the East, and THN had us 13th in the East. We suprised everyone with a great showing during the regular season. A revived super star in Jagr, an amazing rookie in Lundqvist, sound defense, and a great season from Nylander/Straka etc. I hate to do this, but why is everyone overrating the **** out of us just because of last season?

This is the type of thing that only causes problems. Look at the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 Rangers. There was always a bunch of jerk "experts", even in the 6th year of overpaid crap players, who predicted us as cup champs. Why do we continue to be expressed as a team who should win the cup again just because we look OK on paper?

The idiotic Boomer Esiason, no disrespect to his football knowledge, says "anything less of the stanley cup is a dissapointment." I cant believe the MSG network allows such garbage to be put on the air. I open my hockey news today, 3nd in the conference. I see John Buccigross' prediction of 3rd in the east. I hate to be the *** who views the glass half empty, but we have a second year goaltender, an offensive leader who is coming off an injury, and a guy who is expected to relieve jagr of some of scoring burden, he's 36 years old. Our team is young, we are still in a "rebuild." I don't doubt that we can win the Atlantic, but it's so nieve to think that it will definetly happen just because of Lundqvist, or because of Jagr.

My point is not to be negative, but to be realistic. We aren't going to win the cup this season. We probably won't win the Atlantic in my opinion. Let's be realistic and think about how 12 months ago we expected to be awful, pick Kessel as the first pick overall, and maybe make the playoffs this year. I won't let a bunch of homer jerks who want to gain attention in their sports column by saying that the New York team will be champions let me down again like in the 2000 days. Let's be real, and hope for the playoffs again. It's time for a reality check. Let's make the playoffs.

Im with you here.

And to be honest, Im gonna be very happy if they make the playoffs and Im not goin to be TOO disappointed if they fail to make the playoffs, because as you said.. we are still in a rebuild. and in such you go step by step, the problem with the rangers is that they took an unexpected HUGE step forward, so it will seem that anything worse from last season will be a setback while in reality its a step forward.
those so called experts who only talk about hockey when it somehow makes the headlines can eat my ***, i dont really care (i do care as in it does piss me off when they let us all know that they dont put much thinking into their predictions) what they have to say so Im gonna avoid them and just have a great season with my fellow rangerfans, with ups and downs. thats how it is.

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09-30-2006, 05:36 AM
  #6
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If you went back a year and asked the "experts" how the 06-07 Rangers would do they probably would say they'd be out of the playoffs for sure. That would be based on how the team looks on paper (like the big-name Rangers teams that were expected to be great), but the team has proved to be more than the sum of its parts on the ice. I would be shocked if they missed the playoffs, I expect them to be in a dog fight for the Atlantic Division.

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09-30-2006, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie View Post
I would be shocked if they missed the playoffs, I expect them to be in a dog fight for the Atlantic Division.
Replace shocked with slightly surprised and you get my sentiment on the issue.

Under or overestimating a team happens constantly in professional sports; the Rangers are no more and no less susceptible to idiots like Boom Esiason than the rest of the league.

Yes, we've got a young team, but they've all got one years more experience than they had last year (with obvious exceptions). We added 7 cup rings in the offseason, maintained the core of our club, and are likely going to add some youth with scoring punch to our lineup (Immo or Dubi). There's a lot to like about this team considering the system and discipline they play with, and I certainly don't think 3rd in the East is out of the question...

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09-30-2006, 07:30 AM
  #8
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I agree with everything in this thread.

First of all, I don't think we are tough enough to last the entire SC PO's. I think we are a really good regularseason team, if this sport where decided in a straight series (President Trophy=Stanley Cup), we might have had a chance. But I think there are allot of teams with players who are a better fit at comming out on top after 20+ extremely tough PO games in a short time. We have thoose players on the farm, guys like Greg Moore and Brandon Dubinsky are young players who I think when ready can put us over the top.

Our goalie this season should be to get into the Stanley Cup, not just to participate in it. There is a big diffrence between the game of hockey in the regular season and in the PO's. We should have the endurance to take out atleast one team, maybe two, this season.

Second, like FLY pointed out to demand any team to get into the finals are almost ridiculos. There are 30 teams in this league right now, with all almost having the same financial capacity. I am even prepaired to say, that there aren't 20 hockeyplayers in the world good enough to create one team that could gaurantee a Stanley Cup win in this game right now. Its that tough, and skill and talent only gets you so far. There is also the Swiss& Belarus factors, a hockey game aren't always won by the best team.

Its so easy to underestimate other teams in the league, I think we where the victims of that during the 7 year streak. We looked at our roster, and got the players that we thought would make us contenders in the off seasons, and thought that where enough. There are 28 teams (its pretty easy to count out the NYI ) out there with the same goal, 16 of 30 teams makes it. That means that in every aspect of the game, we must be better then half the team, we have to work harder, be smarter, ect. I just think we had the wrong approch. We went into a NHL season with the approch of not making it was a huge failure, instead of seeing making the PO's as a award after a tremendous achivement.


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09-30-2006, 07:32 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by MrAlfie View Post
Im with you here.

And to be honest, Im gonna be very happy if they make the playoffs and Im not goin to be TOO disappointed if they fail to make the playoffs, because as you said.. we are still in a rebuild. and in such you go step by step, the problem with the rangers is that they took an unexpected HUGE step forward, so it will seem that anything worse from last season will be a setback while in reality its a step forward.
those so called experts who only talk about hockey when it somehow makes the headlines can eat my ***, i dont really care (i do care as in it does piss me off when they let us all know that they dont put much thinking into their predictions) what they have to say so Im gonna avoid them and just have a great season with my fellow rangerfans, with ups and downs. thats how it is.
I agree 100% They took such a large leap than what was expected that if they fail to make the playoffs there looked at as a failure. I dont tihnk that they will miss the playoffs, much like Vinnie said I expect there to be a fight for the division with the Rangers deep in the fight. Me personally I like to look at the predictions, but I dont put much stock into them.

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09-30-2006, 08:12 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by nyrmessier011 View Post
The idiotic Boomer Esiason, no disrespect to his football knowledge, says "anything less of the stanley cup is a dissapointment." I cant believe the MSG network allows such garbage to be put on the air.
Actually he said anything less than the Stanley Cup Finals, not Stanley Cup.

What do you think Boomer is going to say, regardless of his real opionion, considering his show is on MSG network??? Do you think he is gonna predict the Rangers don't make the playoffs on the Rangers own TV channel? Do you think Dolan would allow him to say anything bad about the Rangers and keep his show? Remember Dolan had a talk with Sam & JD, and they were only allowed to say positive things about the Rangers.

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09-30-2006, 08:13 AM
  #11
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Season Expectations

NJMHO the Rangers are a playoff caliber team that has grown by leaps and bounds. Our Captain is coming back from an injury that could hamper his play for awhile, we might not get the type of start as last year. I agree the Atlantic will be a dogfight, we will surely be in there but it may be more of an uphill battle than people think. Lets Go Rangers!!!

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09-30-2006, 10:09 AM
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the predictions made during the 7 years we missed the playoffs were laughable because people just looked at the big names on paper and assumed we'd be good...plus it was a suckers bet for odds makers cause we looked good to people that weren't paying attention. but i knew we were crap and everyone here that was paying attention knew that we were crap. we might have hoped it was better but deep down we all knew the problems going on...

but i gotta say that this year is the first time in a long long time that i see people predicting success for the rangers and i'm not laughing...i can agree with not wanting to make the expectations too high and after 8 years of expecting (or even hoping) we'd be terrible to get a high pick, its strange going into a season expecting to win. but i honestly see no reason to believe that we won't be one of the top teams in the east if we stay healthy...

we removed some of the weakest link veterans and replaced them with quality north american vets that will counterbalance all the euros and we have some quality kids proving they are ready...i see no reason to not expect the team to be improved over last year. and i'm usually hugely pessimistic going into the year often declare the season over by mid-november...

as far as what i'd consider a successful year and what i'd consider a disappointment that really depends on what the lineup looks like and who is involved...my expectations right now is to be a top team in the east and go deep into the playoffs, not necessarily win it all but a step closer over last year...but i can't really say that less than the 2nd round would be disappointing without looking at other factors. if we manage to establish dawes, dubinsky, immonen, moore and baranka as nhl regulars but fall short i might be disappointed but wouldn't be overly upset. on the other hand if we fell short cause while burying those kids in hartford so guys like hossa can play would be rather upseting cause it would do nothing for the future.

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09-30-2006, 11:08 AM
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Guys please stop using the term " rebuild ". It doesnt exist in sports, and only easily brainwashed mainstream sports fans use it.

There is no such thing as a " rebuild ", its only an excuse for sucking. The rookies this season are no different then the rookies of the pre-lockout years. Poor management is the fault for losing. This explains why the same teams in sports suck season after season and get all those high draft picks and dont change a lick. Chicago Blackhawks, Kansas City Royals, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, all examples in the past decade.

The Rangers have just as much money as any winning sports franchise out there, so this " rebuild " garbage is a joke.

Im not saying the Rangers should dominate each season, but you guys need to stop believing everything you hear.

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09-30-2006, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g52 View Post
Guys please stop using the term " rebuild ". It doesnt exist in sports, and only easily brainwashed mainstream sports fans use it.

There is no such thing as a " rebuild ", its only an excuse for sucking. The rookies this season are no different then the rookies of the pre-lockout years. Poor management is the fault for losing. This explains why the same teams in sports suck season after season and get all those high draft picks and dont change a lick. Chicago Blackhawks, Kansas City Royals, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, all examples in the past decade.

The Rangers have just as much money as any winning sports franchise out there, so this " rebuild " garbage is a joke.

Im not saying the Rangers should dominate each season, but you guys need to stop believing everything you hear.

thanks alot


k now, but you do know that money doesnt really matter that much in hockey as it does like in.... lets say soccer...
you just cant buy a player for 40 million $ and say hes yours now, players are acquired via trade, free agency or the draft. and since the rangers learned the hard way that "free agency success"+trading is not equal playoffs they go with the rebuild.
the rebuild means being competitive with players from within... of course that alone doesnt work, youll have to add some mature, experienced players to keep the bunch together, but thats what a rebuild is... you demolish your old building (trade away leetch, finally having messier retiring) and rebuild a modernised new one (lunken,dubinsky and co) and while rebuilding you add a strong frame (jagr,straka,shanahan) that will hold it together until the new building will hold itself on its own.
thats my understanding of a rebuild.. and no.. i didnt get it from the mainstream, but thank you for calling me brainwashed, the last time i heard that was when ... nevermind.. im not goin to start a political dispute.


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09-30-2006, 01:38 PM
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it does suck that certain expectations are heaped on one of the most exposed teams in the league, but that is the nature of the beast. everything that makes playing in this town so great also has its drawbacks. I'm not going to feel sorry for the team or "fans" if they are disappointed by their finish. I personnally only expect a playoff appearance with a few wins. Who cares if some fringe fans expect a cup and get disappointed? These are the same people (and media) that don't care about hockey in the first place. They seem to be disappointed in the sport from the get go.

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09-30-2006, 03:29 PM
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They key is how everyone fits into the system.

If guys like Shanahan, Cullen, and Hall all blend very well.

If Ward calms Tyutin down and somehow manages to get his talent level out of him.

If Lundqvist keeps developing, if Dawes can make the jump, etc.

There are some unknown's here, but there is also a foundation for a really good team and one that is superior to last season.

I still think the team would need to add another player, maybe two but that's for a later time and depends on who is out there.

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09-30-2006, 08:42 PM
  #17
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Expectations and predictions are hard to live up to and even harder to get right 100% of the time. This team will do well this season, and I'll have fun watching them play and hopefully make the playoffs.

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09-30-2006, 09:44 PM
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At the end of last year I said it would be difficult to make the playoffs again with the squad we had at season's end. Since then we have brought in two Stanley Cup winners, a hall of famer and other pieces to the puzzle. There is no doubt that this team has the POTENTIAL to go further than the team last year. In the new NHL anything can happen, we could bomb and miss the playoffs or we could hoist the cup, but all in all we have a better team this year than we did last year.

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09-30-2006, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
the predictions made during the 7 years we missed the playoffs were laughable because people just looked at the big names on paper and assumed we'd be good....but i knew we were crap and everyone here that was paying attention knew that we were crap. we might have hoped it was better but deep down we all knew the problems going on...

but i gotta say that this year is the first time in a long long time that i see people predicting success for the rangers and i'm not laughing...
So true. I used to like to chide some NYR fans that they "won the Cup each summer" during those years, what with their splashy big name UFA signings and fantasy team-like turnover...then of course, the puck was dropped in October and reality set in.

This 2006 version is a team. One that garnered 100 despite a late season decline. Of course as a fan, one doesn't want to get his high hopes crushed by his team...but I'll put it this way: Think Sather & Renney are realistically setting the goal as anything less than the Cup this season for this group? (That question is rhetorical, BTW.)

Over the prior 10 years, my question for NYR entering each season was "why"? As in: why in the world would you expect this group of mercenaries to win anything? Coming into this season, my question is "why not"? (And it's not my raison d'etre to be an NYR flacky.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by g52 View Post
Guys please stop using the term " rebuild ". It doesnt exist in sports, and only easily brainwashed mainstream sports fans use it.

There is no such thing as a " rebuild ", its only an excuse for sucking.
AMEN!

Tell Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanahan, Kaspairitus, Ward, Cullen and every other player on the team that they are in a rebuild. They'd laugh in your face.

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10-01-2006, 03:25 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g52 View Post
Guys please stop using the term " rebuild ". It doesnt exist in sports, and only easily brainwashed mainstream sports fans use it.

There is no such thing as a " rebuild ", its only an excuse for sucking. The rookies this season are no different then the rookies of the pre-lockout years. Poor management is the fault for losing. This explains why the same teams in sports suck season after season and get all those high draft picks and dont change a lick. Chicago Blackhawks, Kansas City Royals, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, all examples in the past decade.

The Rangers have just as much money as any winning sports franchise out there, so this " rebuild " garbage is a joke.

Im not saying the Rangers should dominate each season, but you guys need to stop believing everything you hear.
I disagree. I think rebuilds are real, people just don't actually understand what it is. The stockpiling of draft picks, the selling of veterans and the increasing of odds to get those players that we've seen are very much part of a rebuilding effort.

The difference is, and this is where a lot of people get it wrong, a rebuild does NOT mean losing. It means taking a different approach.

Compared to 02 this team has rebuilt it's system. It changed it's focus, it changes what it was looking for in trades and it stockpiled supplies.

The difference between the Rangers and the teams you mentioned is that the Rangers did it the right way. A rebuilding does not necessitate success just because a team decides to go for young talent and call itself a rebuild.

Just like an enforcer is not necessarily a goon, a rebuild does mean having to lose or that you can't add veteran pieces. It just means you aren't going to turn over those assets for "Win now" trades and you're not going to look a bunch of guys up into longer term contracts.

So while we can criticize the average sports fan, I think this thread itself doesn't even accurately represent what a rebuild actually is.

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10-01-2006, 12:22 PM
  #21
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I disagree. I think rebuilds are real, people just don't actually understand what it is....The difference is, and this is where a lot of people get it wrong, a rebuild does NOT mean losing.
Those are all very fair points, Edge.

Bottom line, as trite as it may sound, is that the way you start planning to win in the future is to start winning today. Not at the price of mortgaging a pipeline of prospects, of course. But again, it is never a zero sum game, kids vs. vets.

Some would have you believe otherwise.

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10-01-2006, 02:33 PM
  #22
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what a joke, now larry brooks says we're gonna win the cup.

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10-01-2006, 03:16 PM
  #23
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My expectation for the team is to out work, out hustle the opposing team. Thats what I would ask the Rangers this season, regardless of where the Rangers are rank.

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10-01-2006, 03:56 PM
  #24
broadwayblue
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I think the expectations are fair. Once you have proven you can make the playoffs the expectations should be that you take home the cup. That's all there is to it.

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Old
10-01-2006, 04:33 PM
  #25
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g52 View Post
There is no such thing as a " rebuild ", its only an excuse for sucking. The rookies this season are no different then the rookies of the pre-lockout years.
Well, if you are the worst team in the league for three years, sucks really bad the two following years, its almost impossible not to have built a strong core of young players during that time. However, it takes really really long time with a really bad hockeyteam. Atleast when we sucked, we thought we where gooing to be atleast decent 6 month of the year...

In a cap enviorment, with players starting to become UFA's at the age of 27 and up, there are other ways of rebuilding, look at what Colorado are dooing for example.

After this season, for 07-08, they only have 8 players signed, and all 8 beeing pretty good contracts. They will have almost 25 millions to spend that summer, money that won't be eaten up by their RFA's -- Svatos, McComrick, Vaananen and Leoppold.

They will probably be able to sign thoose four for around 6 million, then they will have 11 players signed in Hejduk, Wolski, Burnette, Richardson, Skrastins, Theodore, Budaj, Svatos, McComrick, Vaananen and Leoppold, and will have 19m left to spend on one top 4 D and three top 6 forwards, and a 4 depth players.

I espcially checked up what Colorado where dooing, because I have always felt they where one of the best run organizations in the league, and when trading Tanguay it certainly felt they where free falling. But instead found that they are dooing a helluva rebuild in a hurry up there. They have really good drafting, and another decent pick next summer, they could enter the 07-08 season with a solid farm and a contending team again, who would have thought? Especially if they can resign Sakic cheap, for around 3 million, they could be lethal.

So I agree with you, teams that are dooing a traditional rebuilding, in this era, aren't very well runned.

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