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Old
09-28-2006, 07:44 AM
  #1
alby05
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Roster concern

Understanding the game has changed and all that, I'm still concerned that the B's lack team toughness and that will be a detriment as the season wears on. After Chara, I'm not sure I see anyone on the roster who will actually embrace the role of punishing the opposition willingly. The young forward could be in for a long year without some level of protection if they are not inclined to handle it themselves.I'm not advocating Brookbank strictly on what I've seen and heard so far from training camp but I just feel this team is missing that element..... much like last year. - thoughts?

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09-28-2006, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alby05 View Post
Understanding the game has changed and all that, I'm still concerned that the B's lack team toughness and that will be a detriment as the season wears on. After Chara, I'm not sure I see anyone on the roster who will actually embrace the role of punishing the opposition willingly. The young forward could be in for a long year without some level of protection if they are not inclined to handle it themselves.I'm not advocating Brookbank strictly on what I've seen and heard so far from training camp but I just feel this team is missing that element..... much like last year. - thoughts?
DC is that you?

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09-28-2006, 08:10 AM
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misterjaggers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alby05 View Post
Understanding the game has changed and all that, I'm still concerned that the B's lack team toughness and that will be a detriment as the season wears on. After Chara, I'm not sure I see anyone on the roster who will actually embrace the role of punishing the opposition willingly. The young forward could be in for a long year without some level of protection if they are not inclined to handle it themselves.I'm not advocating Brookbank strictly on what I've seen and heard so far from training camp but I just feel this team is missing that element..... much like last year. - thoughts?
Unfortunately, two minutes TOI of Brookbank or (substitute any minor league-talented goon here) contributes very little to overall physical play. The 3rd man in and instigator rules more often than not have turned the hockey fight into a choreographed side show.
And that's a shame.

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09-28-2006, 09:38 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
Unfortunately, two minutes TOI of Brookbank or (substitute any minor league-talented goon here) contributes very little to overall physical play. The 3rd man in and instigator rules more often than not have turned the hockey fight into a choreographed side show.
And that's a shame.
I agree, which is really my point. The B's still seem to lack that player who you can dress each night confidently but adds the sandpaper to the line-up.

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09-28-2006, 11:41 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
Unfortunately, two minutes TOI of Brookbank or (substitute any minor league-talented goon here) contributes very little to overall physical play. The 3rd man in and instigator rules more often than not have turned the hockey fight into a choreographed side show.
And that's a shame.
Well-said. I think the more the NHL tries to police fights, the more problems it will create. Instead of trying to start a fight the old-fashion ways, today's players have to target the opposing team's stars for dirty hits. They hope this will get the other team's enforcer riled up enough to actually drop the gloves, all the while hoping he won't be outnumbered and probably not trying to injure the star.

Way too complex for my tastes - fighting in NHL-style hockey is simple and it is inevitable. Let it happen, but keep things from getting out of control (a la bench-clearing brawls and players going into the stands).

The league is worried about fighting turning off families from watching the game? Then they can advertise the V-chip which comes in almost every TV today. Set the actual game to TV-G and when a fight comes on, they can switch the game to a more restricted level and then go back when it's done. If a family doesn't want its kids to see the fight, they won't see the fight, but they won't miss the game, either.

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09-28-2006, 11:43 AM
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From what I've seen and read of Savard including quotes, he seems to have that "sandpaper" aspect to his game. He has a rep. for getting under the skin of opponents and drawing penalties.

In addition to Chara, Alberts has the potential to deal some pain. He has demonstrated an ability to use his size with punishing checks. And Bergeron will take no crap from anyone.

I'm OK with the makeup of the club and believe the toughness issues will be addressed by the current roster.

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09-28-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
Unfortunately, two minutes TOI of Brookbank or (substitute any minor league-talented goon here) contributes very little to overall physical play. The 3rd man in and instigator rules more often than not have turned the hockey fight into a choreographed side show.
And that's a shame.
what's a shame is that teams use a roster spot on a "designated goon." when hockey fights *meant* something, it was an outpouring of emotion on the ice which could have come from *any* player on the roster. i'll go a step further re: brookbank--having him on the ice for two minutes does *nothing* in terms of physical play. he's not a "physical player"--he's a fighter. alberts is physical. chara is physical. mara and jurcina can be physical. bergeron can send people flying with well-timed checks. if brookbank isn't throwing punches, he's hurting the team by being out there. the way tenkrat and mowers were flying around last night, i can't help but think they'd have had a goal if they'd had a third forward on their line. did brookbank touch the puck more than once or twice in the game?!?!?

you're absolutely right that most goon v. goon hockey fights today are a sideshow with little to do with the rest of the game. suiting up a player for *that*, who cannot play a meaningful regular shift of hockey, is a waste of a roster spot.

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09-28-2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alby05 View Post
Understanding the game has changed and all that, I'm still concerned that the B's lack team toughness and that will be a detriment as the season wears on. After Chara, I'm not sure I see anyone on the roster who will actually embrace the role of punishing the opposition willingly. The young forward could be in for a long year without some level of protection if they are not inclined to handle it themselves.I'm not advocating Brookbank strictly on what I've seen and heard so far from training camp but I just feel this team is missing that element..... much like last year. - thoughts?
Nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

There's nobody other than Brookbank among the forwards who is even close to being tough or willing to stick up for a teammate. They will be pushed around again this year and the situation won't be addressed because our new coach, like our last one, likes a soft team and it seems our GM does as well.

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09-28-2006, 05:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

There's nobody other than Brookbank among the forwards who is even close to being tough or willing to stick up for a teammate. They will be pushed around again this year and the situation won't be addressed because our new coach, like our last one, likes a soft team and it seems our GM does as well.

DC...just curious? Does it hurt to have your knuckles dragging on the ground all the time like that?

We've been over this b4...just because we do not have a bunch of goons at forward does not mean they are soft...and in OTT PC had both Neil and McGratton. The difference is...Neil can actually play.

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09-28-2006, 05:26 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
DC...just curious? Does it hurt to have your knuckles dragging on the ground all the time like that?

We've been over this b4...just because we do not have a bunch of goons at forward does not mean they are soft...and in OTT PC had both Neil and McGratton. The difference is...Neil can actually play.
Yup, and I've been over this before, too. I'm not talking about filling the team with guys like Brookbank. I'm talking about guys like Morrow, Hartnell, Torres, Sutherby and even guys like Ruutu, Barnaby and Petrovicky.

Those guys can all play the game and bring the much-needed toughness to the forward lines. Do we have any such player on our roster?- NO.

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09-28-2006, 05:44 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

There's nobody other than Brookbank among the forwards who is even close to being tough or willing to stick up for a teammate. They will be pushed around again this year and the situation won't be addressed because our new coach, like our last one, likes a soft team and it seems our GM does as well.
I agree with DC on the fact that we could diffently use some added toughness in are forwards.Someone who can play the game and drop the gloves when called upon.

As far as PC liking a soft team I feel that couldn't be farther from the truth as he has indicated he covets the tough guy who can play the game but they're hard to acquire as everyone else wants them.I know Ruutu would have been perfect but I feel he was more concerned with getting Bergy and company signed after inking are FA.

Hopefully hes still working on acquiring somene who will fill that role and we don't have to wait for the arrival of Lucic.

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09-28-2006, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Yup, and I've been over this before, too. I'm not talking about filling the team with guys like Brookbank. I'm talking about guys like Morrow, Hartnell, Torres, Sutherby and even guys like Ruutu, Barnaby and Petrovicky.

Those guys can all play the game and bring the much-needed toughness to the forward lines. Do we have any such player on our roster?- NO.
Which won't hurt us that badly. Look, those guys you named are ALL gritty players who are good for some production. But there are only so many of those guys in the league. Just because we don't have a perfectly-designated "agitator" who can goad opponents into a fight, a "pest" like Esa Tikkanen was (IMO the best at that role in NHL history -- I digress) does not mean that this year's B's are going to get pushed around. What are you getting at, DC? Other posters have mentioned the names -- Savard, Chara for starters -- with some edge to their games. I'll concede last year's edition had a little problem in the grit department, but I don't see this lineup being bullied much. I don't see what your argument is -- not everyone can have a Ruutu or Torres on the checking line. I'm alright with the guys we have.

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09-28-2006, 06:36 PM
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I suspect PC will sit back and evaluate a bit at first- or at least I would. But I do think that he'll have his feelers out all season for any available guys with a game that resembles Darren McCarty's game (ie- tough, can play and can comfortably drop the gloves if needed). He's on record saying he likes those players, but most GM's probably do as well. Just remember that in Ottawa PC saw the effects of having a softish team in the playoffs, even if most of that was in the "old style" NHL.

Trading deadline is about 6 months from now, and we have yet to see a regular season game. No panic here.

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Old
09-29-2006, 06:29 PM
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ahhhhh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

There's nobody other than Brookbank among the forwards who is even close to being tough or willing to stick up for a teammate. They will be pushed around again this year and the situation won't be addressed because our new coach, like our last one, likes a soft team and it seems our GM does as well.
I think someone else has been saying it too DC...he goes by the handle Taz#24 (names like TORRES, HARTNELL, KESLER etc). I also remember being the most jacked guy here when I thought we might land SHANAHAN.

Now that the sarcasm is out of the way. I sooooooo agree with your point, it's not that I advocate a bunch of goons but an infusion of sandpaper would keep the other teams honest regarding taking liberties with out skill guys and even tough the game is less phyical in some aspects, it still picks up considerably in playoffs, particularly body checking/hitting, which is exactly the way it should be all the time. Let's face it, there is nothing wrong with a good fight now and then either, it can send a message to the rest of the team to get off their ***** and get in the game. You have to have someone who is willing in order to do that though, guys that can and will fight if required and can still play the game. We have some tough guys in terms of pain threshold and internal fortitude but we don't have many who will initiate or even defend a teammate by actually fighting with the exception of PRIMEAU and CHARA. DONOVAN is sometimes willing but doesn't strike fear into anyone and BROOKBANK is just a goon who will not see much icetime. Mark STUART may be that type of player but we haven't seen enough of him yet. If someone tries to convince me that Andrew ALBERTS is, I will puke. He hits hard and often and I like that about him but he has turtled everytime someone challenges him and I have 0 respect for that. I know from a team perspective there is a time and place to drop your gloves but this guy never seems to get challenged at the right time I guess???

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09-29-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
Unfortunately, two minutes TOI of Brookbank or (substitute any minor league-talented goon here) contributes very little to overall physical play. The 3rd man in and instigator rules more often than not have turned the hockey fight into a choreographed side show.
And that's a shame.
MJ, I am not sure that is really true at all. The third man in and instigator rules were on the books throughout the 80s when fighting was at its peak and less of a goon on goon sideshow. I think the specialization of players have led to players trying to prove their worth by fighting otherwise useless players (often times for no reason) to do so.

The instigator rule is not perfect, but it is clearly there for a reason..as is third man in.

This alll said the Bruins have to play tougher. Not Wade Brookbank 2 minutes a night tough but more every man stepping up to take the body consistently, take the hit to make the play and be physical in the corners and in front of the net.

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09-29-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

There's nobody other than Brookbank among the forwards who is even close to being tough or willing to stick up for a teammate. They will be pushed around again this year and the situation won't be addressed because our new coach, like our last one, likes a soft team and it seems our GM does as well.
I think there are guys who will certainly drop the gloves to stick up for a teammate. Hoggan, Donovan, Primean to name three. I have no doubt if push came to shove Bergeron, Boyes and Savard would too.

I agree with you on Ruutu--we missed the boat on him big time, but these are guys for better or worse so either get on or get off.

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09-29-2006, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
I think there are guys who will certainly drop the gloves to stick up for a teammate. Hoggan, Donovan, Primean to name three. I have no doubt if push came to shove Bergeron, Boyes and Savard would too.

I agree with you on Ruutu--we missed the boat on him big time, but these are guys for better or worse so either get on or get off.
Listen, I appluad anyone who automatically steps in to defend a teamate BUT... it loses it's luster when they get beat down and that is exactly what will happen if the above mentioned names jump in headfirst... or jaw first. My point all along is, we've got a nice team on the rise here and the missing piece is some one to keep the peace and do so willingly

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09-30-2006, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
I think there are guys who will certainly drop the gloves to stick up for a teammate. Hoggan, Donovan, Primean to name three. I have no doubt if push came to shove Bergeron, Boyes and Savard would too.

I agree with you on Ruutu--we missed the boat on him big time, but these are guys for better or worse so either get on or get off.
Hoggan? Has he ever had a single fight? I think the only reason that we *assume* he will because he *said* he would be willing.

Donovan is not known as a scrapper, but I guess he will from time to time. Not really his role.

Primeau seems unwilling, at least he did last year.

I'm not sure what you've seen from Bergeron or boyes that indicates that they would drop the gloves. Personally, I don't want our two best forwards defending a teammate or themselves for that matter.

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09-30-2006, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by alby05 View Post
Listen, I appluad anyone who automatically steps in to defend a teamate BUT... it loses it's luster when they get beat down and that is exactly what will happen if the above mentioned names jump in headfirst... or jaw first. My point all along is, we've got a nice team on the rise here and the missing piece is some one to keep the peace and do so willingly
What few fights we did have last year all lost their luster when it was one Lacouture beatdown after another, post-Orr. There was also Leahy getting mauled by Chris Gratton and countless "turtles" from Sturm, Slegr, Alberts and Boynton.

The only time there was any form of pride involved was when Gill willingly and aggressively took on and beat Eric Godard when Godard challenged Greene.

Grit at forward is once again a missing piece, but we might as well get used to it. It's been this way since 1990.

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09-30-2006, 06:42 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
Hoggan? Has he ever had a single fight? I think the only reason that we *assume* he will because he *said* he would be willing.

Donovan is not known as a scrapper, but I guess he will from time to time. Not really his role.

Primeau seems unwilling, at least he did last year.

I'm not sure what you've seen from Bergeron or boyes that indicates that they would drop the gloves. Personally, I don't want our two best forwards defending a teammate or themselves for that matter.
The question you posed would who would stand up for teammates....not who we have that are considered the best fighters in the league.

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09-30-2006, 06:44 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by alby05 View Post
Listen, I appluad anyone who automatically steps in to defend a teamate BUT... it loses it's luster when they get beat down and that is exactly what will happen if the above mentioned names jump in headfirst... or jaw first. My point all along is, we've got a nice team on the rise here and the missing piece is some one to keep the peace and do so willingly
Adding a goon will not "keep the peace". We have been over this countless times and without question it has NEVER been proven that having a goon is good for anything besides retribution.....it is certainly not a preventative measure.

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10-01-2006, 09:19 AM
  #22
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Was there any fights in any of the Bruins pre-season games?


I would expect more foghts in the preseason because people are fighting for thier jobs.

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