So you think Niinimaa, who was currently the 8th defenseman in Dallas, hasn't impressed in pre-season, who is injury prone and had difficulties with his past coaches, is 31 and will earn 2.5 millions dollars is the best defenseman we could have got in exchange of Mike Ribeiro?
You can laugh.
YES.
And injury prone? He has manyy 80+ game seasons in his career.
Ribeiro was useless and was logjamming our lines. We're much better without him, and Dallas will not be going anywhere in the playoffs with him in the middle.
Who cares if Ribeiro shines in Dallas? If he gets 70 points there, he wouldn't have achieved it in Montréal. Let's be honest. He was not an asset to Kovalev last season. Chemistry between them? Bah! Certainly not good chemistry. In reality, he was toxic in the playoffs. Kovy didn't sound distressed about the trade but stated a pro forma "wish him well."
Ribeiro followed up his second consecutive playoff flat tire by doing nothing for Samsonov in the preseason. I don't see how he could have benefited either Russian in this coming season. Where did this leave him? He couldn't fit into any of the other lines despite his being "faster" and "stronger." To boot, he was a distraction and was rumored to be a bad influence on Latendresse. I think Gainey was intent on trading him all along but had to sign him first--even giving him a sizable raise. The fact that the return was only Niinimaa suggests that other GMs weren't bugging Gainey about whether Ribeiro was available. On the contrary, Gainey must have made a lot of calls to ask if anyone was interested.
So why didn't Gainey just not offer Ribeiro a contract and get it over with? Maybe he wanted to give Ribeiro one last chance on a line with Samsonov and Kovalev. Of course he also had to measure Ribeiro against other Habs, including several prospects. He could see that Plekanec was following up a fine playoff performance with a solid preseason. All doubts about the wisdom of a trade were dispelled.
The only thing I wonder about at this point is how Carbonneau really feels about it.
and do you have sources for these assumptions , or they are only comming from the HFboards Ribs haters
" Gainey a assuré qu'il ne tentait pas à tout prix d'échanger Mike Ribeiro, un "joueur issu de l'organisation qui ne posait aucun problème"
this is from RDS site , quoted from Gainey ; a player from the organisation , that wasn't a source of any problem .
You think Gainey was being sincere, or was he just being diplomatic, not wanting to hurt Ribeiro's feelings further now that the axe has fallen? If Gainey truly felt that Ribeiro was a model citizen and the second best center on the Habs, why would he trade him at all? Couldn't he have traded someone else to get Niinimaa, whose stock around the NHL is pretty low right now? I deduce that Gainey specifically wanted to get rid of Ribeiro despite all his kind words.
Who cares if Ribeiro shines in Dallas? If he gets 70 points there, he wouldn't have achieved it in Montréal. Let's be honest. He was not an asset to Kovalev last season. Chemistry between them? Bah! Certainly not good chemistry. In reality, he was toxic in the playoffs. Kovy didn't sound distressed about the trade but stated a pro forma "wish him well."
Ribeiro followed up his second consecutive playoff flat tire by doing nothing for Samsonov in the preseason. I don't see how he could have benefited either Russian in this coming season. Where did this leave him? He couldn't fit into any of the other lines despite his being "faster" and "stronger." To boot, he was a distraction and was rumored to be a bad influence on Latendresse. I think Gainey was intent on trading him all along but had to sign him first--even giving him a sizable raise. The fact that the return was only Niinimaa suggests that other GMs weren't bugging Gainey about whether Ribeiro was available. On the contrary, Gainey must have made a lot of calls to ask if anyone was interested.
So why didn't Gainey just not offer Ribeiro a contract and get it over with? Maybe he wanted to give Ribeiro one last chance on a line with Samsonov and Kovalev. Of course he also had to measure Ribeiro against other Habs, including several prospects. He could see that Plekanec was following up a fine playoff performance with a solid preseason. All doubts about the wisdom of a trade were dispelled.
The only thing I wonder about at this point is how Carbonneau really feels about it.
Carbo said at begining of camp that he feels very good about plekanec and wants to give plekanec more offensive resposibilities as carbo thinks plekanec can handle it. Carbo has allways been a fan of plekanec game and I believe the confidence carbo has toward plekanec is what made gainey pull the triger on the trade. Theres no dout in my mind that plekanec is going to do better than ribeiro this year. Hes got the tools to do it. Carbo has allways been a guy that plays with intensity and played a smart game in the defensive zone wich makes me believe he was never a ribeiro fan to begin with. Plekanec on the other hand can put points and plays a good two way game well playing with alot of energy for a smallish center.
Carbo said at begining of camp that he feels very good about plekanec and wants to give plekanec more offensive resposibilities as carbo thinks plekanec can handle it. Carbo has allways been a fan of plekanec game and I believe the confidence carbo has toward plekanec is what made gainey pull the triger on the trade. Theres no dout in my mind that plekanec is going to do better than ribeiro this year. Hes got the tools to do it. Carbo has allways been a guy that plays with intensity and played a smart game in the defensive zone wich makes me believe he was never a ribeiro fan to begin with. Plekanec on the other hand can put points and plays a good two way game well playing with alot of energy for a smallish center.
I'd be willing to wager that Ribs ends with more pts than Plekanec this year, with ****tier linemates and in a more defensive western side.
Let's face it. If Ribs was a better player, they could have dealt him for more than what they got. That is the reality of things.
While his points are subject to debate, it is clear he stunk in the attitude and 2 way play department. You have to know that this is not the kind of player Carbo wants to put on the ice. Getting a -6 with 51 points while playing on the second line as centre is just plain lazy 2 way play on his part.
The Habs are stuck for defense players right now as it stands. This is probably the best deal they could swing, although getting a crack at Johnson would have been nice. Too pricey I guess but I am not so sure about that either.
Anyway, bye bye Ribs, hello Janni. Learn to live with it guys
This is a speed team now. The habs need players who can keep up. Pleks can skate while his linemates are making plays he can score goals. His shot is underrated. Niinimaa has talent. In the right situation he may turn out. He will at least spice up the PP. Rivet on the power play is bad.
Dallas won this trade and its not even funny. Ribeiro will have a great year, not too sure that will be the case with Niinimaa.
Ribeiro is their 2nd center, what about Niinimaa? He will be our 7th Def. Well there u go, plus we take on more salary.
I'd be willing to wager that Ribs ends with more pts than Plekanec this year, with ****tier linemates and in a more defensive western side.
I dont think most of us even question that. But thats just one aspect of this game, Plekanec has abilities to make up for that ... and the difference may not be as big as you think anyhow.
I'd be willing to wager that Ribs ends with more pts than Plekanec this year, with ****tier linemates and in a more defensive western side.
Your crush on Ribeiro doesn't embarrass you?
The western style more defensive? Chuckle, chuckle, snort.
Anyway, we'll see who gets more points, and we'll see who has a better +/- rating. I'll tell you one thing: Kovalev and Samsonov won't be weeping if Plekanec stays on their line. It's possible he'll be taken off it if Gainey makes a further trade for an offensive center, but it may not be necesssary. And if Plekanec ends up in the top 6 on the Habs, it'll demonstrate conclusively that the team did more more for Ribeiro than Ribeiro did for the team.
Dallas won this trade and its not even funny. Ribeiro will have a great year, not too sure that will be the case with Niinimaa.
Ribeiro is their 2nd center, what about Niinimaa? He will be our 7th Def. Well there u go, plus we take on more salary.
Let's say the Habs use a full roster of 23 players, with 2 G and 7 D. That means there's room for 14 forwards. I count:
Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Samsonov-Plekanec-Kovalev (Pleks fits the Russians better than Ribeiro)
Perezhogin-Bonk-Johnson
Murray-Bégin-Latendresse
Downey + Mr. X
Now that Ribeiro is gone, Gainey might add Kostitsyn or Lapierre or Ferland or Grabowsky or Chipchura, depending on who merits it. That doesn't seem bad.
dallas won it... i wish we woulda gave ribs another shot... jus to play with kovalev n samsonov... he can set up plays we all know that ...****!
Why couldn't he set up Kovy last season? Or Kovy and Samsonov in the preseason?
Anyway, back on topic. With Bouillon and Dandenault out, and Cote unavailable, the Habs desperately need Dmen, and Niinimaa arrived in the nick of time.
Niinimma may not be the depth Dman we need at a #3-#4 position, but he does give us depth and he has the potential to become that consistant Dman he was in Edmonton if he remains healthy and his confiedence returns to where it once was.
Ribs, I think one would have to be blind, deaf and a non-hockey fan to think that Ribs would not thrieve being out of the Montreal media and fan hotbed! Not only that he is now on a team where players like Modano, Morrow, Turco and others will keep him grounded, in line and the pressure of being the "man" is not there because of all of the depth too. And another factor here I think helps, Lindros. Both players are good, both have not lived up to their billing (Lindros did when healthy), but Lindros seriously is a good ear and another person keeping Ribs grounded and focused. With less media and fan pressure he is performing like all exiled players have done in Leclair, Desjardins, Roy, Turgeon and so on....all do better out of the pressure pot in Montreal when they are not the sole focus or whipping boy.
Both are good players, it is now going to be a season evaluation not a game by game evaluation because both are on teams doing well and both are contributing in their way.
Either way Montreal is ahead because we would of never seen this "Ribs" in Montreal.
**The Ribs trade doesn't hurt, what hurts is that Montreal never gave Beauchemin the chance he got in Anaheim...he is now the #3 behind probably the best 2 Dmen in the league in Niedermeyer and Pronger. Sure he wouldn't have the supporting cast in Montreal he has in Anaheim, but I believe given the chance he could have proven himself and with a top pairing of Markov and Kommy supported by a Souray and Beauchemin tandem would have given our D that muych more depth!
Was not an even trade when it happened and it sure not an even one now. While Niniimaa is a body that we need because of the injuries, Ribeiro is just not a body to fill a spot, he's actually contributing big time.
Would be fun to actually ask Kovy how he liked playing more with, Ribs or Pleks.....
As far as thriving in great markets and out of that pressure, it's the Habs fault to trade their assets to teams where they'll shine even more than teams where they could have more problems.
What's great about Ribs though, is that he'll for once make a name for himself, will be known as a good player after all now that he's gone from Montreal.
As far as thriving in great markets and out of that pressure, it's the Habs fault to trade their assets to teams where they'll shine even more than teams where they could have more problems.
Actually that is a Montreal media and fan problem, not a team problem. Montreal as an organization tried to let Ribs be the player he can be and probably new he would work out well else where because of the pressures in Montreal for French players. It is a gamble trade, but Montreal addressed a need and a problem area that needed to be fixed for a lack of depth. At least they were smart enough to let him go to the West so it would not haunt them for years like the Desjardins/Leclair move to Philly did!
Ribs is good what 4 games in as a Star, lets see the whole season first...plus Niinimaa won't be back next year and that opens up 2.5 million for Markov and others to be resigned with the Bonk salary likely to be gone too.
Actually that is a Montreal media and fan problem, not a team problem. Montreal as an organization tried to let Ribs be the player he can be and probably new he would work out well else where because of the pressures in Montreal for French players. It is a gamble trade, but Montreal addressed a need and a problem area that needed to be fixed for a lack of depth. At least they were smart enough to let him go to the West so it would not haunt them for years like the Desjardins/Leclair move to Philly did!
Ribs is good what 4 games in as a Star, lets see the whole season first...plus Niinimaa won't be back next year and that opens up 2.5 million for Markov and others to be resigned with the Bonk salary likely to be gone too.
I don't believe the Leclair move hurt them because he was traded to the East. Sure it did help to hurt us since everytime he played against us he scored all the time. But it's more of a matter of goals and points he add up. And i assure you, if Ribs had a 80-point season, you'll hear about that as if he would've been traded to Toronto. It could also just be an "Hoglund" effect where you thrive immediately after the trade/release but then the season after you vanish.....But it looks like Ribs learn to love hockey a lot more since he's not here....
As far as fixing a problem, sure we had to do it. But to the expense of getting a 2.5 million d-man who's evidently will never regain his old form? I thought that the Habs, since they know more than us, knew that it was Pleks time to shine on the 2nd.....Well evidently, he's intimidated by his new role and doesn't have the finish to be an effective 2nd centerman. A 3rd one, any day of the week, but 2nd might be too hard for him....But again, is he just waiting for a trade to become suddenly better????
Also, while everybody was asking for an effective 2nd centerman all summer long, we now know that Arnott would've been more useful than Samsonov. A combination of Arnott and Kostitsyn would be more useful than Samsonov-Pleks on the 2nd line. It's been a long time now that we notice the lack of depth as far as d-men are concerned and now they're addressing it. But is the lack of 2nd scoring center with the potentiel of being 1st if Saku got injured not well known as well????
While Gainey made tremendous improvements to upgrade this team from the very poor lineup we had like 3 to 4 years ago, he's human and we'are seeing a couple of mistakes that first, made him acquire a guy like Patrick Traverse and second might have Radek Bonk centering the 2nd line if things keep continue the way it does.
At one point, I wished Theodore to shine and Ribs to shine as well and the rest of the players that are thrown out by the media and fans 'cause that way, everybody might want to reconsider how we treat our guys and ask ourselves why do they have more success elsewhere than here. And once that done, we might have a contender in our hands instead of a contender for the playoffs.
You can't look at this trade and see who wins it simply based upon their play for their new teams. Both players just no longer fit in with their respective teams and urgently needed a change of scenery. It's only natural they're doing better than they did for their former team.
Gaining a player, regardless whether he was a miscast on his former team, for a player that was becoming near useless for your team, can only be looked upon as a positive. You lose nothing, but possibly gain something nice.
Anyway, I really, really like Ribeiro so far. At first I was sceptical considering his stature, his soft game and lack of defensive comittment, but all 3 have been big plusses so far. Especially defensively, he holds his ground very well. He does have poor balance though. Offensively he's been right up there amongst our best players. In limited time, he's managed to produce at a ppg clip and scored a huge, huge goal last night. All this centering the 4th line. I'm curious to see what he can do centering our 2nd scoring line, which should be anytime now.
You can't look at this trade and see who wins it simply based upon their play for their new teams. Both players just no longer fit in with their respective teams and urgently needed a change of scenery. It's only natural they're doing better than they did for their former team.
Gaining a player, regardless whether he was a miscast on his former team, for a player that was becoming near useless for your team, can only be looked upon as a positive. You lose nothing, but possibly gain something nice.
Anyway, I really, really like Ribeiro so far. At first I was sceptical considering his stature, his soft game and lack of defensive comittment, but all 3 have been big plusses so far. Especially defensively, he holds his ground very well. He does have poor balance though. Offensively he's been right up there amongst our best players. In limited time, he's managed to produce at a ppg clip and scored a huge, huge goal last night. All this centering the 4th line. I'm curious to see what he can do centering our 2nd scoring line, which should be anytime now.
Hope Janne is doing well, too..
Well personally I can look at this trade and say that RIGHT NOW, it's not even close. You win a trade based on the fact that while not loosing anything you gain something good. Niniimaa would not have played right now for the Stars and they gain a PPG player. Habs while gaining a body, still didn't replace Ribs on the 2nd line. Easy win SO FAR but we'll see on the long run. I believe Ribs might begin having more problems when he'll be confortable with his team. He'll then begin loosing up on the defensive side of it, will not backcheck as hard and will only think of making the 2nd line produce, which he'll succeed but might 'cause some defensive lapses as well. Or not and it was the Habs system the problem with him, system where he would've never fit and is fitting right at home in Dallas.
But right now, Stars win by far. Niniimaa while not used on PP, which is totally stupid based on the fact that Rivet is, doesn't play bad but still is a direct reason for some goals against. Ribeiro is the reason for the goals for.....
Again, not saying we should not have traded Ribeiro, I had enough of him, just thinking Niniimaa was not the right one, while he looks OK, on the base of who wins, it's a pretty easy decision right now. But we'll see.
Well personally I can look at this trade and say that RIGHT NOW, it's not even close. You win a trade based on the fact that while not loosing anything you gain something good. Niniimaa would not have played right now for the Stars and they gain a PPG player. Habs while gaining a body, still didn't replace Ribs on the 2nd line. Easy win SO FAR but we'll see on the long run. I believe Ribs might begin having more problems when he'll be confortable with his team. He'll then begin loosing up on the defensive side of it, will not backcheck as hard and will only think of making the 2nd line produce, which he'll succeed but might 'cause some defensive lapses as well. Or not and it was the Habs system the problem with him, system where he would've never fit and is fitting right at home in Dallas.
But right now, Stars win by far. Niniimaa while not used on PP, which is totally stupid based on the fact that Rivet is, doesn't play bad but still is a direct reason for some goals against. Ribeiro is the reason for the goals for.....
Again, not saying we should not have traded Ribeiro, I had enough of him, just thinking Niniimaa was not the right one, while he looks OK, on the base of who wins, it's a pretty easy decision right now. But we'll see.
You assume that some other team would have given up a better Dman for Ribeiro. I sincerely doubt that Gainey overlooked the possibility of a better deal for the Habs. There was none, unfortunately. Ribeiro was not held in high esteem in the NHL.
Who thinks Montreal is better off now? We were weak down the middle before this deal, and now we're worse. Sure, we have a serviceable bottom or second-pairing defenseman, but I don't believe that we couldn't have gotten Niinimaa for a mid-round draft pick.
You assume that some other team would have given up a better Dman for Ribeiro. I sincerely doubt that Gainey overlooked the possibility of a better deal for the Habs. There was none, unfortunately. Ribeiro was not held in high esteem in the NHL.
I assume that the Dallas Stars were desperately looking to unload Niniimaa's salary and that we could have got him for a 4th or 5th rounder. Then you start the season with Ribs, and again even though he's not my favorite player, and in the meantime see if Pleks will finally show us that he could have an offensive touch between Johnson and Pleks. And then while Ribs could demonstrate that he could do something, I know a couple of teams looking desperately for a 2nd centerman, Dallas being one of them, Calgary for sure and others, even the AVS and then got something better for Ribs. But let's face it we've traded Ribs having no idea how Pleks would respond but in total confidence in him. I like Pleks cause he works hard, skates hard and fast, responsible defensively and all, well go to the 'Nucks board and they'll say the same thing about........Bulis......I'm beginning to think that since we all know now that Bégin is more at ease at the winger position, Pleks might be more at ease centering a 2-way 3rd line, than being the important guy on a 2nd one.....
Kovy himself said that he had nice chemistry with Ribs. Finally Ribs showed that he was more willing to work harder, I would be so dissapointed if we trade Ribs thinking he was the problem this year when it's possible that Sammy is the one who ****ed the whole chemistry of that line.
Pretty funny how everyone was saying that he would have success 'cause he had the right wingers to work with. Why is that OK for him to have success ELSEWHERE. Since we know he needed that kind of winger (hard-working sniper like Morrow or even Lindros) why didn't we look for that in the off-season. Shanahan was not the only solution. If most of us knew that, hope Gainey knew it as well. So how do you go for a need for power-forwards, and settle for a guy like Sammy. Ribs paid for that and I believe we'll be paying too.
And I hope nobody will come with that, "here we go again, trading Hossa, Garon, and the rest was the end of the world and now that Ribs is traded it will be too". Ribs was and is way more proven than those guys.
