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Isles-Flames trade PROPOSAL

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:03 PM
  #1
Michalek
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Isles-Flames trade PROPOSAL

There is my idea:
How about
To Calgary : RW Mark Parrish ,D Eric Cairns (throw in ,if he has any value then it would be Parrish alone)
To Isles : D Gauthier and LW Saprykin

any opinins?

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11-18-2003, 02:08 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
There is my idea:
How about
To Calgary : RW Mark Parrish ,D Eric Cairns (throw in ,if he has any value then it would be Parrish alone)
To Isles : D Gauthier and LW Saprykin

any opinins?

You've proposed this deal before, as have other Flames fan. I know you want this to happen, but posting the deal again and again isn't going to make it come true. Anyway, this had no chance. Here is why:

1. If the Isles do move Parrish, it will with an eye toward saving major $. They're not going to want any contracts in return, just prospects and picks. I think the optimal deal would be Parrish for a high level defense PROSPECT (not a vet #5 guy like Gauthier).

2. Isles don't need Gauthier (or at least Isles management doesn't think they need Gauthier - I think we need a player of that ilk pesonally). They have 8 NHL defensemen under contract. Four of those defensemen are in a whole different galaxy as far as talent and on-ice impact are concerned. Gauthier might not even be our #5 man.

3. Saprykin is exactly the sort of guy the Isles don't want. Yet another prospect who may or may not work out. Isles have shown zero tolerance with those sort of players in the past. Besides, the Isles have a slew of young forwards they are already trying to break in.

In short, this is a deal which meets the Flames needs but does little for the Isles.

A more realistic deal would be Parrish for Nystrom and a pick. Or, Cairns for a 5th or 6th rounder.

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:11 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
There is my idea:
How about
To Calgary : RW Mark Parrish ,D Eric Cairns (throw in ,if he has any value then it would be Parrish alone)
To Isles : D Gauthier and LW Saprykin

any opinins?
Would like to have Guthier,but he's not worth Parrish and I'd rather see the isles give their own young forwards a chance,so no wish for Saprykin.

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11-18-2003, 02:11 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
You've proposed this deal before, as have other Flames fan. I know you want this to happen, but posting the deal again and again isn't going to make it come true. Anyway, this had no chance. Here is why:

1. If the Isles do move Parrish, it will with an eye toward saving major $. They're not going to want any contracts in return, just prospects and picks. It think the optimal deal would be Parrish for a high level defense prospect.

2. Isles don't need Gauthier (or at least Isles management doesn't think they need Gauthier - I think we need a player of that ilk pesonally). They have 8 NHL defensemen under contract. Four of those defensemen are in a whole different galaxy as far as talent and on-ice impact are concerned.

3. Saprykin is exactly the sort of guy the Isles don't want. Yet another prospect who may or may not work out. Isles have shown zero tolerance with those sort of players in the past. Besides, the Isles have a slew of young forward they are already trying to break in.

In short, this is a deal which meets the Flames needs but does little for the Isles.

A more realistic deal would be Parrish for Nystrom and a pick. Or, Cairns for a 5th or 6th rounder.
just for record:
I never proposed this deal before

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:14 PM
  #5
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
just for record:
I never proposed this deal before

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=25252


Nearly the exact same deal. That time it was Gauithier and Chris Clark for basically the exact same return.

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:18 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=25252




Nearly the exact same deal. That time it was Gauithier and Chris Clark for basically the exact same return.
I thruly believe that Saprykin is a major upgrate over Clark

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:21 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
I thruly believe that Saprykin is a major upgrate over Clark

I don't.

I don't think either player is every going to make much of an impact at the NHL level.

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11-18-2003, 02:21 PM
  #8
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I tried editing my earlier post,but see it didn't edit.


anyway how about a Lydman for Parrish deal?

Flames get a 23-30 goal scorer.Isles get a younger,cheaper d-man,allowing them to move either Hamrlik or Aucoin.

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11-18-2003, 02:23 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
I thruly believe that Saprykin is a major upgrate over Clark

Weinhandl,Asham,Bergenheim,Mapletoft,Hunter,Godard ...Saprykin would be just another unproven young forward fighting for limited amount of icetime on LI.

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11-18-2003, 02:24 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I tried editing my earlier post,but see it didn't edit.


anyway how about a Lydman for Parrish deal?

Flames get a 23-30 goal scorer.Isles get a younger,cheaper d-man,allowing them to move either Hamrlik or Aucoin.

Reasonably fair, although I'd want Calgary to throw in a pick.

The only problem with this is that Hamrlik is going to be pretty hard to move under the present circumstances ($).

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11-18-2003, 02:27 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I tried editing my earlier post,but see it didn't edit.


anyway how about a Lydman for Parrish deal?

Flames get a 23-30 goal scorer.Isles get a younger,cheaper d-man,allowing them to move either Hamrlik or Aucoin.
Both teams would strongly consider this option in my opinion.

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:30 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
Both teams would strongly consider this option in my opinion.


I don't think so.

I believe it is fair, and could make sense. But, I don't think the Isles have any interest in moving in this direction. Multiple reports indicate they are not willing to move any of their top four defensemen. So, they wouldn't be interested in a vet defender from Calgary. Without moving Hamrlik or Aucoin, Lydman becomes our #5 dman, and again adds a contract.

I still say that, if Parrish goes to Calgary, Nystrom will be the one coming back to the Island.

But, that is just my best guess. I claim no inside information.

Also, all bets are off if the Isles fall out of contention for the playoffs.

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Old
11-18-2003, 02:32 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Reasonably fair, although I'd want Calgary to throw in a pick.

The only problem with this is that Hamrlik is going to be pretty hard to move under the present circumstances ($).

I don't know about that Darth.We have the MM trying to get the Hawks gm to shut up about the rumored Hawks- Isles trade

and several sources say the Hawks want Parrish+ Hamrlik (or Parrish+Niinimaa),while the isles would rather move Parrish+Cairns.

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11-18-2003, 02:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I don't know about that Darth.We have the MM trying to get the Hawks gm to shut up about the rumored Hawks- Isles trade

and several sources say the Hawks want Parrish+ Hamrlik (or Parrish+Niinimaa),while the isles would rather move Parrish+Cairns.

But, several sources (including the usually reliable Hahn) say the Isles are not willing to do that.

I also doubt that ChiHawks are willing to ante up what it would take to get a guy like Hamrlik.

My prediction: The eventual deal will have Parrish going to either Chicago or Atl. Flames will not be involved.

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11-18-2003, 02:37 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't think so.

I believe it is fair, and could make sense. But, I don't think the Isles have any interest in moving in this direction. Multiple reports indicate they are not willing to move any of their top four defensemen. So, they wouldn't be interested in a vet defender from Calgary. Without moving Hamrlik or Aucoin, Lydman becomes our #5 dman, and again adds a contract.
Both Hamrlik($3.6m) and Aucoin($3.2m) are rfas this summer,ufas next summer.

I don't see the isles tying up both with big contract extensions.

Bringing in a younger,cheaper top 4 defensemen, lets the isles move the one they think will be tougher to sign longterm.

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11-18-2003, 02:39 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Both Hamrlik($3.6m) and Aucoin($3.2m) are rfas this summer,ufas next summer.

I don't see the isles tying up both with big contract extensions.

Bringing in a younger,cheaper top 4 defensemen, lets the isles move the one they think will be tougher to sign longterm.

I'm not disputing your logic. I just don't think the Isles are going to go in that direction. I think they are going to keep the top four intact, and hope that the new CBA makes it easier to lock up Aucoin and Hamrlik longterm.

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11-18-2003, 03:07 PM
  #17
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Lydman is probably out of the Isles reach. If Gauthier isn't of interest for the Isles then I don't think there'd be a fit between these two teams.

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11-18-2003, 03:10 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Lydman is probably out of the Isles reach. If Gauthier isn't of interest for the Isles then I don't think there'd be a fit between these two teams.
Not sure that I agree that Lydman is "out of reach." But, you are probably right that the fit isn't there.

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11-18-2003, 03:22 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Not sure that I agree that Lydman is "out of reach." But, you are probably right that the fit isn't there.
Parrish would not get the Isles Lydman. A streaky 25-goal top-six winger doesn't carry the same value as a top pairing two-way defenceman that can be relied upon for 25-30 minutes a game. I don't think you'd do Jonsson for Parrish -- that's not far from what you're proposing here.

Lydman is pretty close to being untouchable right now, he's a big reason the Flames defence has been so strong this year.

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11-18-2003, 03:27 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Parrish would not get the Isles Lydman. A streaky 25-goal top-six winger doesn't carry the same value as a top pairing two-way defenceman that can be relied upon for 25-30 minutes a game. I don't think you'd do Jonsson for Parrish -- that's not far from what you're proposing here.

Lydman is pretty close to being untouchable right now, he's a big reason the Flames defence has been so strong this year.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Simply put, I don't think Lydman is a high level defensemen. In fact, if he was on the Isles, I think he'd be our #5 guy. And, I don't think that he is close to being Kenny Jonnson's equal.

Nor do I believe that Lydman is "untouchable". The Flames are probably not likely to move him, but I think they would be willing if the right deal came along.

Ultimately, you are right that the fit isn't there. But, I do think Parrish for Lydman would be fair to both teams, and I'd even expect Calgary to add in a late pick.

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11-18-2003, 04:36 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
We'll have to agree to disagree. Simply put, I don't think Lydman is a high level defensemen. In fact, if he was on the Isles, I think he'd be our #5 guy. And, I don't think that he is close to being Kenny Jonnson's equal.
Kim Johnsson is probably a better comparison, but since you're an Isles fan I went with Kenny. I suspect that you haven't seen Lydman enough to really judge him as a player -- he may just be the most underrated defenceman in the league -- if not top five. If Lydman were in the spotlight, he'd easily be in the same league as Kenny or Kim, but since he's not he doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves. That's too bad, but it doesn't go unappreciated in Calgary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Nor do I believe that Lydman is "untouchable". The Flames are probably not likely to move him, but I think they would be willing if the right deal came along.
I believe he is close to untouchable for two reasons:

1) The reasons mentioned above pertaining to him being underrated in the league.

2) Sutter signing him for three years (second longest contract currently on the team) and likely expecting overpayment (by league valueations -- in other words, fair value by Flames standpoint) to trade him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Ultimately, you are right that the fit isn't there. But, I do think Parrish for Lydman would be fair to both teams, and I'd even expect Calgary to add in a late pick.
Parrish straight up probably wouldn't even get a returned phone call from Sutter. It would probably take one of Asham or Hunter involved to get the ball rolling.

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11-18-2003, 04:55 PM
  #22
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I agree with Darth on many things he says in this thread. A Parrish trade will more likely be a Parrish dump, and prospects will be traded so the Isles don't have to take on any contract(s). I think value-wise it is fair, but the Flames simply don't need Cairns, and Isles simply don't need Gauthier. Better off just keeping these two guys on their respective teams.

And I don't think Lydman is a high-level defenseman either. No defenseman on Calgary is high-level. High level to me is Lidstrom, Hatcher, Pronger, or Blake. Lydman doesn't even come close. However, he is still quite valuable in a trade, as is any of the Flames blueliners (especially Warrener). Phaneuf is also up there, even though he hasn't played an NHL regular season game, he was showing his goods this pre-season, and almost made the team.

I think Calgary is better off trading with a team like Chicago or Boston, who can afford to give up offensive depth in return for a blueliner.

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11-18-2003, 05:00 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Kim Johnsson is probably a better comparison, but since you're an Isles fan I went with Kenny. I suspect that you haven't seen Lydman enough to really judge him as a player -- he may just be the most underrated defenceman in the league -- if not top five. If Lydman were in the spotlight, he'd easily be in the same league as Kenny or Kim, but since he's not he doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves. That's too bad, but it doesn't go unappreciated in Calgary.


I believe he is close to untouchable for two reasons:

1) The reasons mentioned above pertaining to him being underrated in the league.

2) Sutter signing him for three years (second longest contract currently on the team) and likely expecting overpayment (by league valueations -- in other words, fair value by Flames standpoint) to trade him.


Parrish straight up probably wouldn't even get a returned phone call from Sutter. It would probably take one of Asham or Hunter involved to get the ball rolling.
I suspect that you have not seen Kenny J. play much if you really believe that Lydman is in his league. He is not. As I said earlier, on the current Islander team, Lydman would be our number 5.

I understand why you think Lydman is untouchable. I just don't think that is the case. He simply isn't that good a defensemen. This is an offensive dman who has never scored 30 points, and never been a plus player in his career. If Sutter could improve the team by moving him, he would do it.

As for Parrish, I still don't see the fit there on Calgary. But, I agree the deal would not be Lydman straight up. The Flames would have to add something. I think Lydman and a third rounder for Parrish would be fair.

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11-18-2003, 05:04 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
I agree with Darth on many things he says in this thread. A Parrish trade will more likely be a Parrish dump, and prospects will be traded so the Isles don't have to take on any contract(s). I think value-wise it is fair, but the Flames simply don't need Cairns, and Isles simply don't need Gauthier. Better off just keeping these two guys on their respective teams.

And I don't think Lydman is a high-level defenseman either. No defenseman on Calgary is high-level. High level to me is Lidstrom, Hatcher, Pronger, or Blake. Lydman doesn't even come close. However, he is still quite valuable in a trade, as is any of the Flames blueliners (especially Warrener). Phaneuf is also up there, even though he hasn't played an NHL regular season game, he was showing his goods this pre-season, and almost made the team.

I think Calgary is better off trading with a team like Chicago or Boston, who can afford to give up offensive depth in return for a blueliner.

Right. And in my zeal to make a point, I didn't mean to diss Lydman. I think he is a soild young dman. I just think he still has kinks in his game to work out. And, if he was on the market (and I don't think he is), a fair return would be a 25 goal winger like Parrish.

Warrener and Phaneuf are both valuable as well, and I think both would command a bit more than Lydman. I don't think Parrish would be enough to get either, for example.

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11-18-2003, 05:48 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I suspect that you have not seen Kenny J. play much if you really believe that Lydman is in his league. He is not. As I said earlier, on the current Islander team, Lydman would be our number 5.
The only Isles defenceman that averaged more ice-time than Lydman are Hamrlik and Aucoin. As I already said, Kim is a better example to compare with -- do I need to explain this again?

You might think that only a Lidstrom or Blake would break the Isles top four, but that just isn't the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I understand why you think Lydman is untouchable. I just don't think that is the case. He simply isn't that good a defensemen. This is an offensive dman who has never scored 30 points, and never been a plus player in his career. If Sutter could improve the team by moving him, he would do it.
There's the proof. Lydman is not by nature an offensive defenceman in the least. He has always been defence first and was not expected to be a big offensive producer -- so you're wrong there and suggests further to me that your familiarity with Lydman is limited. Lydman is a two-way defenceman through and through.

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