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Gretzky and Kurri vs Lemieux and Jagr

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Old
11-20-2003, 09:27 PM
  #1
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Gretzky and Kurri vs Lemieux and Jagr

Which duo would you rather have?
If both duos were in their primes and at around the same age. Which would be the better pair?

We all know the Gretzky and Lemieux stories.

Gretzky became the great-one while lemieux became the magnificent one. both were godly talented but their respective sidekicks cannot be overlooked.

jagr we see is the jagr we get but at the peak of his game, jagr can be the nhl's most dominant forward. extremely quick on rebounds and impossible to knock of the puck. has the goal scoring touch of bure and the playmaking abilities of forsberg.

kurri was perhaps the greatest finnish sports hero ever. Not only was he a great scorer, he did everything. he played defense and was a leader on and off the ice. while he never won any major awards but he played his heart out every game. despite the fact that him and gretzky were never great friends off the ice, he dedicated everything when the game started, and on the ice, it was all business (unlike jagr sometimes). they became the nhl's best dynamic duo ever scoring on clutch plays and having a remarkable record in the playoffs.

while......

Kurri has in 1251 games 601 goals and 1398 points and 1 lady byng award

Jagr in 968 games has 511 goals and 1249 points and 5 Art Ross Trophies, 2 Lester B and 1 Hart

Which pair would you rather choose?

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Old
11-20-2003, 09:28 PM
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Lemieux and Jagr.

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Old
11-20-2003, 09:31 PM
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Jagr and Lemieux easily.

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11-20-2003, 09:32 PM
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Gretz and Jagr :p

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11-20-2003, 09:32 PM
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Gretzky and Kurri. I think that Kurri was the finest pure shooter/goal scorer the game ever saw, and Gretzky was quite simply the smartest player/passer ever in the game. Lemieux and Jagr were dominant, but not as much so as Gretzky and Kurri.

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11-20-2003, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Gretzky and Kurri. I think that Kurri was the finest pure shooter/goal scorer the game ever saw, and Gretzky was quite simply the smartest player/passer ever in the game. Lemieux and Jagr were dominant, but not as much so as Gretzky and Kurri.

~Canucklehead~
AGREED

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Old
11-20-2003, 09:37 PM
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Thirded

Those two clicked like no two others I have ever seen. Like ebony and ivory.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:01 PM
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Gretzky and Kurri, Kurri is still one of the most underrated players ever. The guy was just insanely talented, but I am a huge fan of his (and a Flames fan, figure that out) so maybe I'm biased.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:03 PM
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I'd honestly like to see Gretzky and Kurri pry the puck from either Lemieux or Jagr.

But assuming this isn't for a head-to-head match on ice..

..ah, still Lemieux and Jagr. They did incredible things despite the slew of grappers in the 90s. And I'm a homer.

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:20 PM
  #10
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Lemieux and Jagr without doubt. Both duos were awesome though. Both Gretzky and Kurri were very smart on the ice, which accounts for a lot of their points. When you watch the play unfold you can see the plays happening not because they had better technique, skating or passing, but simply because they both instinctively knew what would be the play that would maximize the chances of them scoring.

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
The guy is still a phenom, but he has some major issues.
Yup, because he has a huge paycheck he plays half-assed until its a contract year again. Kinda like Iginla, Theodore & most of the Rangers roster.

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11-20-2003, 11:33 PM
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Gretzky and Kurri.

Lemieux and Jagr formed an unstoppable trio with Francis, though.

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11-20-2003, 11:33 PM
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I guess I'm biased here.
But I have the best respect for Kurri and Gretzy. It's as if they had always played together.
But IMO Jagr is the best european player ever, and Mario is right there with Gretzky as far as best player ever.
So I'll take the individual talents over the chemistry of Gretzk and Kurri because to boot Mario and Mario Jr also had an incredible chemistry.

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Old
11-21-2003, 02:53 AM
  #14
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Gotta go with the more talented duo. Lemieux and Jagr.

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Old
11-21-2003, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Gretzky and Kurri. I think that Kurri was the finest pure shooter/goal scorer the game ever saw, and Gretzky was quite simply the smartest player/passer ever in the game. Lemieux and Jagr were dominant, but not as much so as Gretzky and Kurri.

~Canucklehead~
Agreed.

Plus, Kurri was an excellent 2-way player as well. Easily the best of all-4 involved.

To me it is a no-brainer.

Wayne>Mario
Kurri>Jagr

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Old
11-21-2003, 03:01 AM
  #16
tom_servo
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Are these four playing in a game against each other? If so, it's no contest for Lemieux and Jagr.

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Old
11-21-2003, 03:03 AM
  #17
Evilo
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nah, Jagr >>>> Kurri

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Old
11-21-2003, 03:06 AM
  #18
tom_servo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
nah, Jagr >>>> Kurri
Agreed. Not by that much, but only one of those two was considered the best in the world for much of a decade.

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Old
11-21-2003, 03:17 AM
  #19
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Trottier and Bossy

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Old
11-21-2003, 03:57 AM
  #20
Masao
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Kurri had rather moderate talents!?

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Old
11-21-2003, 04:33 AM
  #21
shakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
Not even close. Jagr and Lemiux are are 6-4 amd 6-2 guys who weight 230 earch while Gretzky & Kurri are both little guys by todays standard. Even Lemieux & Francis would be a better pair.

Lemieux was better than Gretzky because of his size advantage. Most people accept that Lemieux was ther better natural goal scorer, but for all the talk of Gretzky being the better playmaker, the evidencesuggests just the opposite:

Exhibits 1 & 2. Warren Young was a minor leagurer who Lemieux turned into a 40 goal scorer while Rob Brown was minor leaguer that Lemieux turned into a 49 goal scorer. There is no example of Gretzky doing anything similar. In fact, when St. Louis paired him with Brett Hull, Gretzky failed to have any impact on Hull.

Kurri wasn't even in Jagr's class as player. Jagr could, and did, carry a team on his own. Kurri never did or could. Kurri was a classic example of someone in theright place at the right time to optimize his rather moderate talents. He is roughly equivalent to Kevin Stevens, not Jagr.
Not even close?!? Yeh right dude... Kurri had "moderate" talents? Obviously you haven't actually seen Kurri play or even looked at his stats.. Any pairing with Gretzky in it.. you know the guy who has the most scoring records in NHL history, would have to be the one I would pick.. I still can't get over the "moderate talents" quote though..

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Old
11-21-2003, 04:43 AM
  #22
tom_servo
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Pretty weak argument, mariano.

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:02 AM
  #23
JCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
nah, Jagr >>>> Kurri
Jagr was a better scorer, Kurri was a better player.

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:16 AM
  #24
JCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
Not even close. Jagr and Lemiux are are 6-4 amd 6-2 guys who weight 230 earch while Gretzky & Kurri are both little guys by todays standard. Even Lemieux & Francis would be a better pair.

Lemieux was better than Gretzky because of his size advantage. Most people accept that Lemieux was ther better natural goal scorer, but for all the talk of Gretzky being the better playmaker, the evidencesuggests just the opposite:

Exhibits 1 & 2. Warren Young was a minor leagurer who Lemieux turned into a 40 goal scorer while Rob Brown was minor leaguer that Lemieux turned into a 49 goal scorer. There is no example of Gretzky doing anything similar. In fact, when St. Louis paired him with Brett Hull, Gretzky failed to have any impact on Hull.

Kurri wasn't even in Jagr's class as player. Jagr could, and did, carry a team on his own. Kurri never did or could. Kurri was a classic example of someone in theright place at the right time to optimize his rather moderate talents. He is roughly equivalent to Kevin Stevens, not Jagr.
Your argument would carry more weight if you bothered with some facts.

Rob Brown has played over 500 games in his NHL career. Before hitting 49 goals, he had 44 points in 51 games the previous year. He went on to have moderate success without Lemieux as well. While Mario certainly inflated his numbers, he was not the utter scrub you paint him as. He was not a minor leaguer, but a mediocre NHLer.

To say Wayne didn't have a similar effect is rather naive. Wayne did as much for the careers of Blair MacDonald, Stan Weir, Dave Lumley and Bernie Nichols as Mario did for anybody. Look at the impact an over-the-hill Wayne had on Adam Graves, Niclas Sundstrom and John MacLean in New York. Wayne boosted the play of all those around him and turned mediocre NHLers into scorers, just as Mario did. To hint otherwise is complete fiction.

To call Kurri a moderate talent is laughable. The HOF is not a having for average joes. Kurri certainly benefitted from being Gretzky's linemate, but you don't score 600+ goals without talent. Truth is, even when Wayne left for the Kings, Kurri's production remained steady. In his later years, Kurri continued to be an asset because of his strong 2-way game. He was a guy that would contribute without scoring a point. To compare his career and accomplishments to that of Kevin Stevens (who had his moments) is a joke.

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:42 AM
  #25
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Didn't Kurri join the Kings just about a year after Gretz though?

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