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Gretzky and Kurri vs Lemieux and Jagr

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:50 AM
  #26
Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Jagr was a better scorer, Kurri was a better player.
Nope. We'll have to disagree.
Jagr was better than Kurri period.
Can you believe he counted in more than 50% of his team's goals in a defensive era with Jan Hrdina and Kip Miller on his side?
Kurri needed Gretzky to be on his side to exist as an NHL player.
By no means am I tring to downgrade Kurri's talent. He was an amazing player. But a guy like Teemu Selanne is a good comparison to Kurri.
Jagr is on a whole new level.

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11-21-2003, 07:52 AM
  #27
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OK, what about another comparison...

What do you guys think about Oates/Hull VS Lemieux/Jagr?

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:55 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Nope. We'll have to disagree.
Jagr was better than Kurri period.
Can you believe he counted in more than 50% of his team's goals in a defensive era with Jan Hrdina and Kip Miller on his side?
Kurri needed Gretzky to be on his side to exist as an NHL player.
By no means am I tring to downgrade Kurri's talent. He was an amazing player. But a guy like Teemu Selanne is a good comparison to Kurri.
Jagr is on a whole new level.
I can agree with the whole 'Jagr was more talented' scene, but really, Kurri needed Gretzky to exist as an NHLer? Come now Evilo.

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:58 AM
  #29
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Gretzky/Kurri also had Paul Coffey and Glenn Anderson, who was one of the most underrated players in the world... so it was more of an entire unit that had great chemistry instead of just Gretz and Kurri

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:12 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masao
Didn't Kurri join the Kings just about a year after Gretz though?
A couple years later.

Kurri won another Cup with Edmonton 1st.

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:12 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masao
Gretzky/Kurri also had Paul Coffey and Glenn Anderson, who was one of the most underrated players in the world... so it was more of an entire unit that had great chemistry instead of just Gretz and Kurri
The same can be said for Lemieux and Jagr. They also had Paul Coffey, plus Kevin Stevens, Joe Mullen, Mark Recchi, Rick Tocchet and Ron Francis. Hell, they had Bryan Trottier for 3 years!

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11-21-2003, 08:14 AM
  #32
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Gretzky and Kurri

Kurri was no where near as talented as Jagr. That is just a testement of how incredible Wanye was.

I think when asked Glenn Sather said, "A fire hydrent could score 50 playing with Gretzky".


Ahhhhhh I'm just a child of the 80's.

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:15 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Nope. We'll have to disagree.
Kurri needed Gretzky to be on his side to exist as an NHL player.


Jagr will always win the war of numbers, but wasn't it you who said numbers were not everything when comparing Mario to Wayne?

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:16 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KariyaIsGod
The same can be said for Lemieux and Jagr. They also had Paul Coffey, plus Kevin Stevens, Joe Mullen, Mark Recchi, Rick Tocchet and Ron Francis. Hell, they had Bryan Trottier for 3 years!
Beat me to it.

Mario and Jagr's supporting cast was as rich as the Oilers.

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:21 AM
  #35
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Lemieux and Jagr: 1995-96
Gretzky and Kurri: The whole 1980s

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:26 AM
  #36
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....

I look at it like this. There are elite talents..such as lemieux, gretzky, orr, forsberg and Jagr. Then there is the next batch..Kurri might be in that next batch, but hell..messier was more talented than kurri.
Kurri is not even the most talented fin to ever play..maybe the best fin to ever play so far..but not the most talented..that goes to selanne in my opinion.

2 on 2, mario and jagr would defeat wayne and kurri..they'd be in constant control of the puck..more speed..better shots..better dekes..remember, you dont have to really think defense here..the oilers hardly ever played that back in the day, so jagr and mario wouldnt really need to either. So in essence, this is a win for Jagr and Mario. There is no better duo.

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:50 AM
  #37
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Mario and Mario Jr for me.

Those two were such a force together it was scary.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:14 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD


Jagr will always win the war of numbers, but wasn't it you who said numbers were not everything when comparing Mario to Wayne?
Nope not me !
I never argued that Mario was better than Gretzky (voted 99 as the best player).
I said it was close though.
Don't put words in my mouth.

However, I might have been harsh to say "exist as an NHL player". I should have stated as an "NHL star".
Jagr on the other hand was the best player in the world without Mario.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:19 AM
  #39
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Lemieux=Gretzky
Jagr> Kurri

I'f have to go with Lemiwux and Jagr.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:21 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by temporary pencil
Lemieux and Jagr: 1995-96
Gretzky and Kurri: The whole 1980s

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:26 AM
  #41
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Gretz>Lemieux
Kurri>Jagr

In those two on two battles that everyone is going on about remember Kurri is the best out of the group at defence, and that is what gives him the edge on Jagr.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:27 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
Gretzky and Kurri.

Lemieux and Jagr formed an unstoppable trio with Francis, though.
Yah But On the pp having Gretzky Kurri and Messier on teh same line did the same thing as well.

I think this discussion isn't even close actually Gretzky and Kurri had more heart throughout their entire career than Jagr and Lemieux did. Talentwise i think you have to look at jagr and lemieux and just drool, but for the total package i have to go with Gretzky and Kurri.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:32 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker316
....

I look at it like this. There are elite talents..such as lemieux, gretzky, orr, forsberg and Jagr. Then there is the next batch..Kurri might be in that next batch, but hell..messier was more talented than kurri.
Kurri is not even the most talented fin to ever play..maybe the best fin to ever play so far..but not the most talented..that goes to selanne in my opinion.

2 on 2, mario and jagr would defeat wayne and kurri..they'd be in constant control of the puck..more speed..better shots..better dekes..remember, you dont have to really think defense here..the oilers hardly ever played that back in the day, so jagr and mario wouldnt really need to either. So in essence, this is a win for Jagr and Mario. There is no better duo.
I disagree that jag/lem were better 2/2 than gretz/kurri. The 4/4 play of the oil in the 80's caused the NHL to change to a 5/5 on for coicidental minors and Gretzy and kurri were the biggest component of that. I think that Kurri is by far the best defensive player of the 4 and his play would be noticed in that sort of scenario.

I also disagree that Selanne was a better palyer than kurri, sure selane got 76 in one year but Kurri got 70+ 2 years an a few 60 goal season as well. The biggest difference between the 2 is that kurri was a top level defensive player as well. If you can picture lehtinen scoring 60-70 goals you get an idea what kurri was.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:35 AM
  #44
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It is obvious that this is a discussion between 2 generations. The people who pick Lem/jagr obviously must be younger because tehy could not have seen Gretzy and kurri play together. The older poster who have seen both pairs will acknowledge that Lem/jagr were truly great players, but, Gretzky and Kurri were lethal.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:40 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos1
It is obvious that this is a discussion between 2 generations. The people who pick Lem/jagr obviously must be younger because tehy could not have seen Gretzy and kurri play together. The older poster who have seen both pairs will acknowledge that Lem/jagr were truly great players, but, Gretzky and Kurri were lethal.

....

That's pretty lame man. I'm old enough to say I saw both eras, and hey, gretzky and kurri may have put up more points back then..but it was way more wide open too. You replace gretzky and kurri with jags and mario, and I think you get an even more lethal oilers team.

You shouldn't make judgements by guessing how old everyone is. My dad saw them all and agrees that mario and jags are the more talented pair. And in a wide open era like the 80's..they'd be more lethal as well.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:40 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker316
....

I look at it like this. There are elite talents..such as lemieux, gretzky, orr, forsberg and Jagr. Then there is the next batch..Kurri might be in that next batch, but hell..messier was more talented than kurri.
Kurri is not even the most talented fin to ever play..maybe the best fin to ever play so far..but not the most talented..that goes to selanne in my opinion.

2 on 2, mario and jagr would defeat wayne and kurri..they'd be in constant control of the puck..more speed..better shots..better dekes..remember, you dont have to really think defense here..the oilers hardly ever played that back in the day, so jagr and mario wouldnt really need to either. So in essence, this is a win for Jagr and Mario. There is no better duo.
Are you comparing Gretz, Mario and Bobby to Forsberg?


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Old
11-21-2003, 09:43 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KariyaIsGod
Are you comparing Gretz, Mario and Bobby to Forsberg?


....

No. I'm saying there are certain talent levels that you can categorize players in. Forsberg in the 80's would have been piling up seasons of 150 plus points as well. Forsberg is an elite level talent. So is Jagr. If you dont believe that, you're deluded.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:56 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Lemieux=Gretzky
Jagr> Kurri

I'f have to go with Lemiwux and Jagr.

Gretzky = 945 more assisits than Lemieux and 211 more goals than Lemieux.

Man, would I like to do business with you if you think those figures equal out.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:59 AM
  #49
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Gretzky and Kurri.

And Trottier and Bossy, as well.

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:01 AM
  #50
shakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker316
....

That's pretty lame man. I'm old enough to say I saw both eras, and hey, gretzky and kurri may have put up more points back then..but it was way more wide open too. You replace gretzky and kurri with jags and mario, and I think you get an even more lethal oilers team.

You shouldn't make judgements by guessing how old everyone is. My dad saw them all and agrees that mario and jags are the more talented pair. And in a wide open era like the 80's..they'd be more lethal as well.
Mario Lemieux played in the "wide open era like the 80's". Gretzky was better. Period.

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