HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Gretzky and Kurri vs Lemieux and Jagr

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-21-2003, 11:04 AM
  #51
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker316
....

That's pretty lame man. I'm old enough to say I saw both eras, and hey, gretzky and kurri may have put up more points back then..but it was way more wide open too. You replace gretzky and kurri with jags and mario, and I think you get an even more lethal oilers team.
You were 5 when Kurri and Wayne won their 1st Cup.

I think the comment makes a good point.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:05 AM
  #52
USC Trojans
I have a plan.
 
USC Trojans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LA Oiler fan
Posts: 11,810
vCash: 500
You guys should watch some old tapes of Gretzky and Kurri in their Oiler days. Its like you're watching magic...and it didn't matter who the third guy was on the line, those two alone could get it done. Get them on a two on one and its guaranteed a goal.

USC Trojans is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:06 AM
  #53
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker316
....

No. I'm saying there are certain talent levels that you can categorize players in. Forsberg in the 80's would have been piling up seasons of 150 plus points as well. Forsberg is an elite level talent. So is Jagr. If you dont believe that, you're deluded.

So is Kurri.

If you don't believe that, YOU'RE deluded.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:07 AM
  #54
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alzardnp1
You guys should watch some old tapes of Gretzky and Kurri in their Oiler days. Its like you're watching magic...and it didn't matter who the third guy was on the line, those two alone could get it done. Get them on a two on one and its guaranteed a goal.
When the league have to change the rules of a game because 2 players are scoring too easily....

JCD is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:11 AM
  #55
davemess
Registered User
 
davemess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Scotland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,908
vCash: 500
I think most hockey fans would agree that there isnt too much difference between Mario and Wayne as far as talent goes, so this arguement basically comes down to a choice between Jagr and Kurri.

Kurri : 1251 games, 601 goals, 797 assists, 1398 points.
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy

Jagr : 969 games, 512 goals, 739 assists, 1251 points.
5 Art Ross Tropheys
1 Hart Memorial Trophy
2 Lester B. Pearson Trophy

Jagr has an significant advantage in both his goal scoring and point scoring per game averages, made all the more impressive by the fact Jagr played the majority of his carear during a time when league scoring was decreasing each season. Jagr has also shown that he is capable of being the leagues best player and its top scorer. Also that he can carry a team on basically his own into the playoff (98/99) with no surrounding cast (only 1 penguin other than Jagr broke the 60 point mark that season).


Kurri is a great player and a legit hall of famer but imo Jagr is just a step or two ahead of him and therefore i would take Mario & Jagr.

davemess is online now  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:16 AM
  #56
loveshack2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Old School
Country: Tokelau
Posts: 3,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemess
I think most hockey fans would agree that there isnt too much difference between Mario and Wayne as far as talent goes, so this arguement basically comes down to a choice between Jagr and Kurri.
I think you assume far too much.

loveshack2 is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:25 AM
  #57
Tucker316*
 
Tucker316*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,932
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Tucker316*
....

Big deal...so because some of us were young when the oilers won their first cup this means we cant really debate on which pair was greater?

C'mon man..we live in canada..I've seen just about every highlight there is on these two by now.

Basically it's like saying because I haven't seen lafleur play, I have to say koivu is better cuz I was a teen and young adult in his era.

I just honestly think lemieux and jags combined have more talent. Therefore I also think they'd be the better pair..or at least have that potential. Because you can have all the talent in the world..yet you still might not show it..or prove it when it counts. Jags and mario have. Therefore, they win.

Tucker316* is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:33 AM
  #58
davemess
Registered User
 
davemess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Scotland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
I think you assume far too much.
Well thats your opinion. I wasnt assuming anything, from my experience of listening and reading the opinions of other hockey fans over the years there has always been a general opinion that the two players are fairly equally talented. Although talented in different ways of course.

davemess is online now  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:49 AM
  #59
shakes
Ancient Astronaut
 
shakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemess
Well thats your opinion. I wasnt assuming anything, from my experience of listening and reading the opinions of other hockey fans over the years there has always been a general opinion that the two players are fairly equally talented. Although talented in different ways of course.
sorry, it's also my opinion too.. I would rather have Gretzky on my team than Lemieux any day of the week

shakes is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 11:58 AM
  #60
TelperiŽn
Registered User
 
TelperiŽn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Galaxy Far Far Away
Country: England
Posts: 1,290
vCash: 500
Gretzky/Kurri > Lemieux/Jagr

I'd take Gretz and Kurri over Mario and Jagr any day.

But I guess you could also count that as a biased answer :p - I freaking hate everything about Jagr (his attitude, style of play, all of it, period)!

TelperiŽn is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 02:36 PM
  #61
FlyersGuy69
Registered User
 
FlyersGuy69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: purgatory
Country: United States
Posts: 8,837
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyersGuy69
Lemieux and Jagr

FlyersGuy69 is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:13 PM
  #62
KariyaIsGod*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,140
vCash: 500
Once again, Gretzky and Kurri, by far.

Quote:
Jagr has also shown that he is capable of being the leagues best player and its top scorer.
Well, he wouldn't have been if he played during Jurri's hey day. It was also Gretzky's so your point is mute.

KariyaIsGod* is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:36 PM
  #63
windowlicker
Registered User
 
windowlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Murky Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 2,182
vCash: 500
once again it turns to a pissing contest.. for one reason or another.
As a hockey fan, are you going to remember more easily the Pens of the early 90's or the Oilers 82-87. This is why someone like Orr doesnt get enough respect on these boards..

In short. Lemieux and Jagr had a sick amount of talent between them and could dominate a powerplay like no other. And unless youve seen videos (or where there) of Kurri and Gretzky you can only go by what you hear. They played on another level of hockey. It was like ESP Hockey. Alot of the times when Kurri would get that perfect pass from Gretz and just explode off the wing, you knew you were in fact watching a Live highlight of a beautifull goal that has not occured yet.
And 99.99% of the time, it was in.

Lemieux & Jagr = sick talent and domination
Gretzky & Kurri = pure magic

--------------------------------

Gretz & Jarri is the easy choice (IMO)

windowlicker is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:44 PM
  #64
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
Are these four playing in a game against each other? If so, it's no contest for Lemieux and Jagr.
If Sega/Kush/Visual Concepts read my suggestion from the 2K5 Wishlist at espnhockey.net forums, they will in ESPN Hockey 2K5: Mini Rink with Historic teams!

Jussi is online now  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:47 PM
  #65
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Iceland
Posts: 55,645
vCash: 500
Lemieux=Gretzky
Jagr>Kurri

Lemieux and Jagr

Big McLargehuge is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:59 PM
  #66
USC Trojans
I have a plan.
 
USC Trojans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LA Oiler fan
Posts: 11,810
vCash: 500
Its not comparing individuals. If we were, we'd have an additional "Who's better Kurri or Jagr?" thread.

Yes, individually, Gretzky is a bit better than Lemieux, and Jagr is better than Kurri. We're talking about the best duo. No one can argue that Gretz and Kurri had amazing chemistry. They always seemed to know where each other is and can anticipate their every move. That plus Gretzky's tape to tape passes and Kurri's uncanny knack of finding the back of the net and we have the most formidable duo in hockey.

Individually, the duo of Lemieux and Jagr have a slight edge. Put chemistry into it, and Gretz + Kurri is better.

USC Trojans is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 06:57 PM
  #67
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 12,886
vCash: 500
I wouldn't call this a no brainer, but I couldn't pass up Lemieux and Jagr in their primes.

Kurri may be underrated, but you can make a case for Lemieux and Jagr being among the five or six greatest offensive talents to play the game ever. I don't know if you can do that with Kurri.

Regardless, if it was head to head or I needed a duo for a two on one ever, or any type of situation where I depend on 2 players, I couldn't pass over the combo of Lemieux and Jagr for anyone.

DJ Spinoza is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 07:50 PM
  #68
Rowsdower
Registered User
 
Rowsdower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Arizona Bay
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 4,351
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rowsdower
I'd go with Mario and Jagr.

Rowsdower is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 07:53 PM
  #69
Rowsdower
Registered User
 
Rowsdower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Arizona Bay
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 4,351
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rowsdower
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes
Gretzky = 945 more assisits than Lemieux and 211 more goals than Lemieux.

Man, would I like to do business with you if you think those figures equal out.
Hey, while we are on the subject of numbers, check out games played......might be a reason why those numbers are as far apart as they are....

Rowsdower is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 08:26 PM
  #70
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 500
I don't think there's any doubt that Jagr was the better offensive player than Kurri, having been outpacing him while playing his career from 1990-on, and winning many individual awards along the way.

I've always given Wayne the benefit of the doubt in the Mario-Wayne comparison, but I've never been convinced that there is much of a difference on a per game basis.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 08:49 PM
  #71
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,559
vCash: 500
i would take trottier and bossy over both gretzky and kurri and lemieux and jagr

Son of Steinbrenner is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 09:06 PM
  #72
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 500
You should probably sleep on that one.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 09:09 PM
  #73
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
i would take trottier and bossy over both gretzky and kurri and lemieux and jagr
I'd take Forsberg and Sakic over Trots and Bossy.

Fish on The Sand is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 09:52 PM
  #74
JordanStaal#1Fan
Registered User
 
JordanStaal#1Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Asbestos, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,567
vCash: 500
Sakic and Forsberg never played on the same line, try again...

JordanStaal#1Fan is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 10:16 PM
  #75
kruezer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,279
vCash: 500
This comes down to the essences of the Wayne vs. Mario debates again. It goes like this Performance vs. Talent, its all point of view, perhaps you choose Mario if its for one game, if your picking a career however, you'd be insane not to choose Gretz.

Kurri vs. Jagr is close, I have always been a supporter of Jagr (I strangely enough thought Jags had a lotta heart back in his P-burgh days, it was really underrated, but in Wash its all gone). Kurri on the other hand is my fav. of all-time so I'm extremely biased, people saying he wouldn't have been a star in the NHL without Gretz are outta there minds, do we penalize Esposito because Orr was always on the ice with him? (I know its a forward/d-man comparison, but you get the point) Kurri was an NHL star no matter where he went, I mean twice a 70 goal man and some 60s and 50s and 601 total, You don't put up those stats if you aren't a star, say what you will about Gretz inflating his stats, sure, but Jagr had his best years with Mario. Look at it like this, Kevin Stevens was a legit NHLer, even a star in his days, but look how well he played with Mario, and his numbers don't even come near Kurri's single season #'s, It comes down to this, either Gretzky is amazing for turning the no-talent Kurri into a star and therefore greater than Mario, or Kurri has talent, and alot of it.

Gretz/Kurri > Mario/Jagr

But its close.

kruezer is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.