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Radio Rumour: NYI-St. Louis

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:15 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW

these were the same type of proposals that TB and Leaf fans were insisting the nyi would have to accept for Hamrlik last summer.
I'll put down $1 that Niinimaa won't get back a Jackman or Demitra, regardless of the package. I'll put down another $5 that a Niinimaa trade won't bring back any package suggested by Isles posters.

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11-21-2003, 09:18 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I'll put down $1 that Niinimaa won't get back a Jackman or Demitra, regardless of the package. I'll put down another $5 that a Niinimaa trade won't bring back any package suggested by Isles posters.

Where do you see Islander fans suggesting that they are going to get Demitra for Niinimaa? Where do you see the Isles fans proposing any deals at all involving Niinimaa?

Niinimaa may or may not get traded, but if he does, he is going to bring back a whole lot more than that laughable package of junk you suggested.

Given the attitude of some Blues fans on this board, I think I am looking forwrd to this summer, when the Blues dump Demitra's salary.

I think salary dumps from St. Louis are just about as likely as dumps from the Island.

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11-21-2003, 09:27 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Where do you see Islander fans suggesting that they are going to get Demitra for Niinimaa? Where do you see the Isles fans proposing any deals at all involving Niinimaa?
I'm saying that, should Isles fans start tossing out what they think Niinimaa should fetch from the Blues or any other team (maybe later I'll dig through the archives to see if I can find such comments), he'll fetch less than at least 90% of the suggestions Isles fans toss out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Niinimaa may or may not get traded, but if he does, he is going to bring back a whole lot more than that laughable package of junk you suggested.
And I say any trade involving just him will not get you back more than that. If you're talking picks for Niinimaa and nothing else, a high 3rd round pick/low 2nd round straight up.. Period. Not a first round pick, not a primo prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Given the attitude of some Blues fans on this board, I think I am looking forwrd to this summer, when the Blues dump Demitra's salary.
Considering he'll be arbitration eligible at the end of the season, (he got awarded $6.5 million for one season), they won't have to dump any of Demitra's salary. If you want to say you're looking forward to watching the Blues let Demitra walk for nothing at the end of the season....well, that makes sense. If you want to say you're looking forward to the Blues try to dump Tkachuk's salary or Weight's salary.....well, that makes sense too.

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11-21-2003, 09:30 AM
  #29
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Nottherat, I added you to my ignore list so I don't even know what your wrote. If you have a point to make (and I doubt that since you never have any point in your posts) feel free to PM me.

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11-21-2003, 09:31 AM
  #30
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If this goes down, expect to see Christian Backman headed back to Long Island. Milbury's favorite defenseman is Kenny Jonsson, and he could see Backman as the next in line to take Kenny's spot when he's gone.

Kenny was about Backman's age when Milbury acquired him, and he brings a similar game to the rink.

I don't have any inside info, unfortunately, but it just seems like the move MM would make.

Maybe Hamrlik to St. Louis for Backman, ______ and a pick?

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:34 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I'm saying that, should Isles fans start tossing out what they think Niinimaa should fetch from the Blues or any other team (maybe later I'll dig through the archives to see if I can find such comments), he'll fetch less than at least 90% of the suggestions Isles fans toss out there.



And I say any trade involving just him will not get you back more than that. If you're talking picks for Niinimaa and nothing else, a high 3rd round pick/low 2nd round straight up.. Period. Not a first round pick, not a primo prospect.



Considering he'll be arbitration eligible at the end of the season, (he got awarded $6.5 million for one season), they won't have to dump any of Demitra's salary. If you want to say you're looking forward to watching the Blues let Demitra walk for nothing at the end of the season....well, that makes sense. If you want to say you're looking forward to the Blues try to dump Tkachuk's salary or Weight's salary.....well, that makes sense too.
Exactly what posts are you referencing here? Where do you see Islander fans posting Demitra for Niinimma?

As for Niinimaa, he makes a fairly reasonably salary (3 million), is relatively young, and is signed for two more years. The Isles aren't going to give him away for picks and there is no indicition they are considering deleting him as part of a salary dump. And, even if all that was true, it doesn't make the package you suggested any less ridiculous.


Niinimaa is not Wiemer. He is not overpaid and he is a highly sought after commodity. And, yes, he would bring in a high level prospect or two if traded.

As for Demitra, there is good evidence that the Blues tried to move him this summer because they did not want his salary. Multiple sources reported that he was offered to the Islanders for the less expensive Peca. And, then there was the move to get Stillman off your payroll. I'd say that payroll cuts in St. Louis are quite likely this summer, as they are in many NHL cities. I'll go further to predict (without any degree of certainty at all) that this is Demitra's last season in St. Louis.

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11-21-2003, 09:35 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
If this goes down, expect to see Christian Backman headed back to Long Island. Milbury's favorite defenseman is Kenny Jonsson, and he could see Backman as the next in line to take Kenny's spot when he's gone.

Kenny was about Backman's age when Milbury acquired him, and he brings a similar game to the rink.

I don't have any inside info, unfortunately, but it just seems like the move MM would make.

Maybe Hamrlik to St. Louis for Backman, ______ and a pick?

Backman and Kenny J are completely different players. Backman is much more offensively talented and doesn't have Kenny's defensive game. And, I don't know how you got Hamrlik into all of this. There is no indication at all that the Blues and Isles are talking about Hamrlik.

I doubt the Isles would have any real interest in Backman anyway. Backman isn't a very high level young player.

I'm also not sure where people are getting the impression that the Blues have all this room on their payroll anway.

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11-21-2003, 09:40 AM
  #33
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From what I've seen and read about Backman, he's poised in his own end (like Jonsson) and makes a sweet first pass (like Jonsson), but isn't very physical (like Jonsson). Also, like Jonsson, at 23, he's got offensive skills for a d-man, which Kenny had back then.

I think they match up pretty well, allowing for age difference.

And I included Hamrlik because I think he's more attractice as trade bait for the Isles, due to age and salary.

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11-21-2003, 09:40 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
As for Demitra, there is good evidence that the Blues tried to move him this summer because they did not want his salary. Multiple sources reported that he was offered to the Islanders for the less expensive Peca. And, then there was the move to get Stillman off your payroll. I'd say that payroll cuts in St. Louis are quite likely this summer, as they are in many NHL cities. I'll go further to predict (without any degree of certainty at all) that this is Demitra's last season in St. Louis.
This again? It was reported SEVERAL times in St. Louis that it was the Isles that offered Peca.

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11-21-2003, 09:42 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Exactly what posts are you referencing here? Where do you see Islander fans posting Demitra for Niinimma?
I didn't say anything about a post here. If the threads still existed, I'd reference the past offseason when Demitra trade talk was rampant and rumors had Demitra going to the Isle for Peca, Hamrlik, Niinimaa, and other players in various packages. (But....those threads are long gone.)

Again....if you want AND if I have time, I'll dig through the current archives to site what Isles fans think Niinimaa is worth in a trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
As for Niinimaa, he makes a fairly reasonably salary (3 million), is relatively young, and is signed for two more years. The Isles aren't going to give him away for picks and there is no indicition they are considering deleting him as part of a salary dump. And, even if all that was true, it doesn't make the package you suggested any less ridiculous.
Look at MM and his past history of (horrible) trades and tell me that such a trade isn't out of the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
As for Demitra, there is good evidence that the Blues tried to move him this summer because they did not want his salary. Multiple sources reported that he was offered to the Islanders for the less expensive Peca. And, then there was the move to get Stillman off your payroll. I'd say that payroll cuts in St. Louis are quite likely this summer, as they are in many NHL cities. I'll go further to predict (without any degree of certainty at all) that this is Demitra's last season in St. Louis.
That's all fine.....but the Blues don't owe Demitra anything after this season - he just has arbitration rights, and the Blues don't have to accept any arbitration award. (See: Boston Bruins) So saying that "the Blues (will) dump Demitra's salary" is an incorrect statement. There's nothing on the books to dump.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:43 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
From what I've seen and read about Backman, he's poised in his own end (like Jonsson) and makes a sweet first pass (like Jonsson), but isn't very physical (like Jonsson). Also, like Jonsson, at 23, he's got offensive skills for a d-man, which Kenny had back then.

I think they match up pretty well, allowing for age difference.

And I included Hamrlik because I think he's more attractice as trade bait for the Isles, due to age and salary.

I don't agree at all about Backman. I think he is fairly one dimensional. IMO (and this is just my personal opinion), I don't think he'll ever be an impact player in the NHL. Also, I have to say, that I think Backman's natural skills with the puck exceed Kenny's in a lot of domains.

I doubt the Isles would make a move like this, personally. If they did dump Hamrlik, they'd probably want prospects and picks, not a second tier youngster like Backman. I would really be surprised if the Isles had even a vague interest in Backman.

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11-21-2003, 09:47 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I didn't say anything about a post here. If the threads still existed, I'd reference the past offseason when Demitra trade talk was rampant and rumors had Demitra going to the Isle for Peca, Hamrlik, Niinimaa, and other players in various packages. (But....those threads are long gone.)

Again....if you want AND if I have time, I'll dig through the current archives to site what Isles fans think Niinimaa is worth in a trade.



Look at MM and his past history of (horrible) trades and tell me that such a trade isn't out of the question.



That's all fine.....but the Blues don't owe Demitra anything after this season - he just has arbitration rights, and the Blues don't have to accept any arbitration award. (See: Boston Bruins) So saying that "the Blues (will) dump Demitra's salary" is an incorrect statement. There's nothing on the books to dump.
That last point is a good one. The situation I think the BLues will be in next summer is that Demitra will be up for a new contract and they will not be able to sign him. At that point, he'll be shipped to a big market team (like the Ranger$ ) for very little return. Blues will not be able to afford him and there won't be a market for him given his contract.

As for the Isles and Niinimma, yeah, our GM is an idiot. No question about that. But, frankly, it is weak logic to propose brutal one-sided deals and then counter with "yeah this is a bad deal but your GM is a fool and it could happen."

I also don't know where you got the perception that Islander fans have any real interest in seeing Niinimma traded. I haven't seen many posts. But, at the end of the day, I do think Niinimma has got decent trade value. He is a very high level defender, in his prime, not to expensive, and not all that old.

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11-21-2003, 09:48 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't agree at all about Backman. I think he is fairly one dimensional. IMO (and this is just my personal opinion), I don't think he'll ever be an impact player in the NHL. Also, I have to say, that I think Backman's natural skills with the puck exceed Kenny's in a lot of domains.

I doubt the Isles would make a move like this, personally. If they did dump Hamrlik, they'd probably want prospects and picks, not a second tier youngster like Backman.
I'm not trying to be rude... but have you seen him play this year? I know coming up he was labeled as an offensive defenseman but he really hasn't developed that way. He's decent on the PP and has a decent shot, but he certainly isn't one dimensional. His defensive game this year has been very good. Much better than anyone would have thought he would have been.

I know you're going to ask why he was just sent down if his defensive game has been so good and I wish I could answer that for you. Most Blues fans are not at all happy with him not playing up here. The best answer I could give you is that Coach Q has a very bad tendency to stick with aging, bad veterans.

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11-21-2003, 09:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
And I say any trade involving just him will not get you back more than that. If you're talking picks for Niinimaa and nothing else, a high 3rd round pick/low 2nd round straight up.. Period. Not a first round pick, not a primo prospect.
The isles and blues are not a good match--trading wise. If the isles were to trade Niinimaa (they won't) they would get MUCH more than this junk you suggest. I'll put down Anything you want that they would get more than a #2 pick for him. Cmon lets try to be fair when you make trade suggestions

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11-21-2003, 09:51 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
This again? It was reported SEVERAL times in St. Louis that it was the Isles that offered Peca.

Ultimately, degroat, we really don't know what did happen. But, that is not what NY sources (including the usually reliable Alan Hahn) had to say. But, I agree with you that it could have beent he other way around from what I suggested.

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11-21-2003, 09:54 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
The isles and blues are not a good match--trading wise. If the isles were to trade Niinimaa (they won't) they would get MUCH more than this junk you suggest. I'll put down Anything you want that they would get more than a #2 pick for him. Cmon lets try to be fair when you make trade suggestions
Don't be so confident they won't deal Niinimaa. Anything can happen.

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11-21-2003, 09:58 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NotTheRat
I don't see many aging, bad veterans on the Blues blueline. Finley is simply a solid defensive dman. He makes far fewer mistakes than Backman does at this point and that is obviously what appeals to Q. Backman has a huge upside but he still makes rookie mistakes at a pretty good clip. He's going to be a very solid top 3 dman, however. So out of Pronger, Salvador, Baron, Khavanov, Jackman and Finley who is the 'aging, bad' veteran, Degroat?
Baron, specifically.
Khavanov is also bad, but doesn't exactly qualify for 'aging'.

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11-21-2003, 10:03 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NotTheRat
what's hilarious is some Isle's fan (Darth) rambling on about how there is "no indication" that Hamrlik has been discusssed. Gee, Einstein, if it hadn't been for someone posting the rumour you'd have NO INDICATION AT ALL THAT ANY DEAL HAD BEEN DISCUSSED. It is hysterical to see some posters who really believe their own view of the team they follow is anything other than just a fan's opinion.

Isle's fans have zero idea what Milbury will do. You don't know who has been discussed, you don't know what Milbury is thinking. Stop pretending that you do. You're just fans, nothing more. You have zero insight into your team other than what you read in the papers and on the boards. This doesn't make your opinions valid or any more or less valid than any other fans. Stop kidding yourselves.
By the way I'd rather be 'stuck' with Demitra's salary than that of Yashin's. Milbury is a joke and the Isle's will be lucky to scratch into the 8th spot in the East. They'll go nowhere from there.
No kidding we don't know what MM will do but you don't know what the blues will do either--I would rather have Demitras contact too and I agree MM is an idiot but the the only "joke" is that the blues will once again lose in the first round of the playoffs. Tell me when was the last time they won the cup??? If your going to start craping on other teams be prepared for some yourself.

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11-21-2003, 10:06 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
No kidding we don't know what MM will do but you don't know what the blues will do either--I would rather have Demitras contact too and I agree MM is an idiot but the the only "joke" is that the blues will once again lose in the first round of the playoffs. Tell me when was the last time they won the cup??? If your going to start craping on other teams be prepared for some yourself.
Disles1 - do yourself a favor and ignore that idiot.

There is an ignore feature in your profile. I suggest we all add YestheRat. the Board will be a better place if none of us interact with him.

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11-21-2003, 10:07 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
His knee seems to be holding up well.


Good luck with Isbister and his contract.

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that he didn't pan out. I really thought he would emerge as a solid 25 goal second line winger. Maybe he still will.
Izzy was very good in the pre-season (mostly on our top line) but got a very nasty facial cut courtesy of a Calgary high stick in our last pre-season game. That cost him a couple of games on the side-lines and then he was understandably a bit tentative for a few more until he was healed. He just got back into his game and was hitting/scoring very nicely when he got absolutely levelled by a Chara hit a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa. That resulted in whip-lash and a bone chip in his neck. He got back from that 2 games ago and is just rounding back into form again.

Bad luck early this year - but if the guy can stay healthy and get back into the groove again he'll be fine. I'm quite happy to have him as he bring a lot of much needed size to our roster.

PS - I feel your pain for some of those Niinimaa offers from the Blues's fans. Those are ridiculous for an elite dman like Niinimaa - especially when he cost you Torres and Izzy.

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11-21-2003, 10:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Izzy was very good in the pre-season (mostly on our top line) but got a very nasty facial cut courtesy of a Calgary high stick in our last pre-season game. That cost him a couple of games on the side-lines and then he was understandably a bit tentative for a few more until he was healed. He just got back into his game and was hitting/scoring very nicely when he got absolutely levelled by a Chara hit a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa. That resulted in whip-lash and a bone chip in his neck. He got back from that 2 games ago and is just rounding back into form again.

Bad luck early this year - but if the guy can stay healthy and get back into the groove again he'll be fine. I'm quite happy to have him as he bring a lot of much needed size to our roster.

PS - I feel your pain for some of those Niinimaa offers from the Blues's fans. Those are ridiculous for an elite dman like Niinimaa - especially when he cost you Torres and Izzy.
Last year, Isbister was on a 25 - 30 goal pace before he hurt his ankle. I think the real issue with Izzy is he keeps getting banged up, and he that makes him leery of contact.

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11-21-2003, 10:10 AM
  #47
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Jackman will not be moved for Niinimaa. St Louis gets boned on that deal, and they're the ones accepting a salary dump.

If Niinimaa moves, the Islanders get awful thin on defense. They'd need a lesser defenceman back. If Mayers is indeed part of the deal (which I highly, highly doubt for reasons that have been said by others) I could see Khavanov and Mayers for Niinimaa. Although even that might be overpayment...Khavanov straight up might do it.
Agreed that the Isles would need a defenseman coming back the other way if Niinimaa was traded. But Niinimaa for Khavanov even? That isn't even close. Khavanov is older than Niinimaa and a lesser player. The Isles only do this if they are desperate to get rid of Niinimaa's salary. I doubt they are that desperate.

 
Old
11-21-2003, 10:13 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by degroat
Isles fans.. that was your cue to say something.
From an NYI persepctive, my question is simple:

WHY?

Mayers is a solid, unspectacular third-liner, correct? He makes $800,000. The Isles have a glut of those types.

If it is a move preceding others, might make sense. But then we are simply going in circles with lateral moves.

And from a talent standpoint (no disrespect to Mayers), if you can get a bonafide, top 4 dman for a third-line center, you do it 8 days a week. Who else would be involved? (And please don't insult NYI fans by saying "we wouldn't mind giving you so-and-so leftovers" as was done earlier in this thread. Might be beneficial to consider what NYI actually needs!)

I have watched Janne very closely of late and have not liked what I've seen. Been hesitant to jump on the "he bites" bandwagon (and am not doing so here), as it is a rush to judgement, and the guy is coming off a gimpy knee. (Sidenote: why is it that injuries are so often conveniently overlooked by fans who wish to criticize a particular player? ) He looks a tad behind the play (as has the Isles defense corp overall), and he has had some whopper givaways. He still shows moments of great skill, particularly with his crisp passing, but I'm beginning to wonder if Lowe didn't know that he was a shipping a beat up of version of the old Janne to NYI.

All that said, that is the only reason, beyond his contract, why he could possibly be on the block. Still very much a worthwhile investment for St. Louis, if you are not giving up a top 6 forward.

I would hope that NYI would not make such a deal, but I'm suspecting more and more that a dman (or two) will be moved. And frankly, among their top 4 (the only ones who have trade value), I have little preference of who should stay and who should go. Hamrlik is the most talented, but reminds me of Mark Hardy, circa 1991 with his play this year (read: slooooooow). :p KJ is steady, but has one eye on returning to Sweden, according to some old rumors. Aucoin is a good 2nd pair dman, but is pricy ($3M), especially for a tight-fisted team like NYI. And Janne has been covered.

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11-21-2003, 10:19 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabot55
Agreed that the Isles would need a defenseman coming back the other way if Niinimaa was traded. But Niinimaa for Khavanov even? That isn't even close. Khavanov is older than Niinimaa and a lesser player. The Isles only do this if they are desperate to get rid of Niinimaa's salary. I doubt they are that desperate.

I'm not even sure any of this would be deleting salary. If you add one or two guys who are making close to million, you're already getting close to Niinimma's salary.


Trottier - I agree with you about Janne's play, for the most part.

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11-21-2003, 10:19 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by NotTheRat
I don't see many aging, bad veterans on the Blues blueline. Finley is simply a solid defensive dman. He makes far fewer mistakes than Backman does at this point and that is obviously what appeals to Q. Backman has a huge upside but he still makes rookie mistakes at a pretty good clip. He's going to be a very solid top 3 dman, however. So out of Pronger, Salvador, Baron, Khavanov, Jackman and Finley who is the 'aging, bad' veteran, Degroat?

Also Darth's idiotic "the Blues will not be able to give Demitra away over the summer" statements are.. idiotic. Demitra will once again finish in the top 10 in scoring overall, will be the Blues best offensive player in every category and, if offered up on the trade block, would be a very valuable commodity as his 6 mill contract is more than reasonable in today's terms. Darth is without a clue.
you're pushing it guy...please refrain...thanks.

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