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Radio Rumour: NYI-St. Louis

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:21 AM
  #51
Irish Blues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
That last point is a good one. The situation I think the BLues will be in next summer is that Demitra will be up for a new contract and they will not be able to sign him. At that point, he'll be shipped to a big market team (like the Ranger$ ) for very little return. Blues will not be able to afford him and there won't be a market for him given his contract.

As for the Isles and Niinimma, yeah, our GM is an idiot. No question about that. But, frankly, it is weak logic to propose brutal one-sided deals and then counter with "yeah this is a bad deal but your GM is a fool and it could happen."

I also don't know where you got the perception that Islander fans have any real interest in seeing Niinimma traded. I haven't seen many posts. But, at the end of the day, I do think Niinimma has got decent trade value. He is a very high level defender, in his prime, not to expensive, and not all that old.
1. That's on the assumption that, under the new CBA Demitra will still be a restricted free agent. I don't think he will be restricted post-CBA.

2. For what it's worth, I don't really have interest in trading Demitra (yet) or acquiring Niinimaa. I just think that fans see one of their player's names in a trade proposal and tend to (at times, wildly) overvalue him. Just trying to provide some perspective. (I remember Yushkevich was thought to be worth between a sole 2nd and a sole 4th last season prior to the trade deadline, and IIRC he went for a 7th and people were shocked he didn't at least bring back a 3rd.)

All of that being said.....the more I look at this the more I think either it's a slow news day, or someone missed half the conversation and made up the other half to cover his tail when questioned later.

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:25 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
1. That's on the assumption that, under the new CBA Demitra will still be a restricted free agent. I don't think he will be restricted post-CBA.

2. For what it's worth, I don't really have interest in trading Demitra (yet) or acquiring Niinimaa. I just think that fans see one of their player's names in a trade proposal and tend to (at times, wildly) overvalue him. Just trying to provide some perspective. (I remember Yushkevich was thought to be worth between a sole 2nd and a sole 4th last season prior to the trade deadline, and IIRC he went for a 7th and people were shocked he didn't at least bring back a 3rd.)

All of that being said.....the more I look at this the more I think either it's a slow news day, or someone missed half the conversation and made up the other half to cover his tail when questioned later.
IB, I tried to PM you an apology for being a bit confrontational back there and I think I sent it to my least favorite poster instead (who remains nameless here). But, in general, I think a lot of your posts are sensible.

I think it is sad that it has come down to this for a lot of teams. $ have emerged as such a major issue, that the trade situation is very unpredictable.

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11-21-2003, 10:26 AM
  #53
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Remember one other thing about Niinimaa; he has spent alot of time carrying, I mean playing with, Cairns. He has no confidence at all in Cairns, and that has led to some turnovers (trying to do to much alone) and an unwillingness to join the rush, feeling that Cairns cannot cover for him.

The thing that I find most amusing about this thread is that Niinimaa is actually the lowest paid and youngest of the Isles top 4 on d. Why would they trade him in a straight salary dump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I have watched Janne very closely of late and have not liked what I've seen. Been hesitant to jump on the "he bites" bandwagon (and am not doing so here), as it is a rush to judgement, and the guy is coming off a gimpy knee. (Sidenote: why is it that injuries are so often conveniently overlooked by some fans who wish to criticize a particular player? ) He looks a tad behind the play (as has the Isles defense corp overall), and he has had some whopper givaways. He still shows moments of great skill, particularly with his crisp passing, but I'm beginning to wonder if Lowe didn't know that he was a shipping a beat of version of the old Janne to NYI.

All that said, that is the only reason, beyond his contract, why he could possibly be on the block. Still very much a worthwhile investment for St. Louis if you are not giving up a top 6 forward.

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:26 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
1. That's on the assumption that, under the new CBA Demitra will still be a restricted free agent. I don't think he will be restricted post-CBA.
The CBA expires in September. Demitra will be an RFA under the current rules in July and must offer a qualifying offer equal to his current salary to ensure that he stays an RFA.

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11-21-2003, 10:28 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11
Remember one other thing about Niinimaa; he has spent alot of time carrying, I mean playing with, Cairns.
Excellent point, and one that should be considered in this discussion.

About the only thing I can criticize about Stirling (who I like): the idea of mixing and matching his best four dmen among his three pairings. Hamrlik, Janne, Aucoin and KJ should be paired together at all times and see 25 minutes each. Cairns and whoever else should be nailed to the bench except for sporadic shifts (approx. 10 mins. a game).

As predicted, the more icetime you give your 5th, 6th and 7th dmen, the more you'll see why they are 5th, 6th and 7th dmen.

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:29 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
The CBA expires in September. Demitra will be an RFA under the current rules in July and must offer a qualifying offer equal to his current salary to ensure that he stays an RFA.
I'm also skeptical that the UFA again will be lowered in the next CBA.

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11-21-2003, 10:32 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
IB, I tried to PM you an apology for being a bit confrontational back there and I think I sent it to my least favorite poster instead (who remains nameless here). But, in general, I think a lot of your posts are sensible.
Got it and tried to reply....and your inbox is full. (Of what, we'll not say. ) Apology not necessary, though...I understand what you were saying. Just wanted to get the "Demitra salary" point across.

degroat....I'll address your comment (which I do accept) elsewhere down the road. (Trying to finish homework....and not doing a great job at the moment.)

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11-21-2003, 10:33 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I'm also skeptical that the UFA again will be lowered in the next CBA.
IMO, it'll have to happen for the owners to gain anything out of the new CBA.

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11-21-2003, 10:34 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11
Remember one other thing about Niinimaa; he has spent alot of time carrying, I mean playing with, Cairns.
Someone, anyone please take Cairns. He is brutal--last night was another example. What's Chi #?? I'll waive him to get him off the team

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:36 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I'd have no problem doing Khavanov and Mayers for him. I think the Blues would have to throw in a decent pick... 2nd or 3rd or a prospect on top of that.
Done deal on that one from my point of view.

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11-21-2003, 10:36 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
IMO, it'll have to happen for the owners to gain anything out of the new CBA.
Possible.


That would leave teams like the Isles (who are to heavy in late 20's players) in very bad position.

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11-21-2003, 10:36 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by kasper11

The thing that I find most amusing about this thread is that Niinimaa is actually the lowest paid and youngest of the Isles top 4 on d. Why would they trade him in a straight salary dump?
Great point. It doesn't make sense for the Isles to trade Niinimaa. Especially not for Khavanov and Mayers.

 
Old
11-21-2003, 10:38 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Possible.


That would leave teams like the Isles (who are to heavy in late 20's players) in very bad position.
And it will give some people here justification to start calling 25 y/o players "old"!

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:40 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
From what I've seen and read about Backman, he's poised in his own end (like Jonsson) and makes a sweet first pass (like Jonsson), but isn't very physical (like Jonsson). Also, like Jonsson, at 23, he's got offensive skills for a d-man, which Kenny had back then.

I think they match up pretty well, allowing for age difference.

And I included Hamrlik because I think he's more attractice as trade bait for the Isles, due to age and salary.
Backman has played quite well this year and seems to be improving rapidly, I think your summary is pretty accurate.

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11-21-2003, 10:42 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by c-carp
Backman has played quite well this year and seems to be improving rapidly, I think your summary is pretty accurate.
I admit that I don't see him nearly as much as you, but I can't agree. I think he has a lot to learn about play in his own end of the ice. On the other hand, he does have all the tools.

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11-21-2003, 10:42 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I'm not trying to be rude... but have you seen him play this year? I know coming up he was labeled as an offensive defenseman but he really hasn't developed that way. He's decent on the PP and has a decent shot, but he certainly isn't one dimensional. His defensive game this year has been very good. Much better than anyone would have thought he would have been.

I know you're going to ask why he was just sent down if his defensive game has been so good and I wish I could answer that for you. Most Blues fans are not at all happy with him not playing up here. The best answer I could give you is that Coach Q has a very bad tendency to stick with aging, bad veterans.
I would call it more of a phobea sp than a bad tendency.

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11-21-2003, 10:42 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by c-carp
Done deal on that one from my point of view.
Minor problem: doesn't take into consideration what your trading partner needs!

If Isles are getting a dman back in a deal, they do not need a another soft(er) player on the backline. Khavanov = Martinek = Timander for the most part.

What is required by NYI (in case anyone cares) is a guy who can provide a modicum of physical play. If you can address that need, great! If not, fine. But no need to bestow upon us players who you want us to have.

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Old
11-21-2003, 10:49 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I'm not trying to be rude... but have you seen him play this year? I know coming up he was labeled as an offensive defenseman but he really hasn't developed that way. He's decent on the PP and has a decent shot, but he certainly isn't one dimensional. His defensive game this year has been very good. Much better than anyone would have thought he would have been.

I know you're going to ask why he was just sent down if his defensive game has been so good and I wish I could answer that for you. Most Blues fans are not at all happy with him not playing up here. The best answer I could give you is that Coach Q has a very bad tendency to stick with aging, bad veterans.

I haven't seen him a lot this year, that is true. I think it is unlikely that he has turned into an entirely different player than he was in the past. But, anything can happen in terms of the development of a young player.

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11-21-2003, 10:51 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I haven't seen him a lot this year, that is true. I think it is unlikely that he has turned into an entirely different player than he was in the past. But, anything can happen in terms of the development of a young player.
I don't know how he did it, but you'd be amazed how much better he was this year compared to last year.

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11-21-2003, 10:51 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Minor problem: doesn't take into consideration what your trading partner needs!

If Isles are getting a dman back in a deal, they do not need a another soft(er) player on the backline. Khavanov = Martinek = Timander for the most part.

What is required by NYI (in case anyone cares) is a guy who can provide a modicum of physical play. If you can address that need, great! If not, fine. But no need to bestow upon us players who you want us to have.

now comes the long thread about how nyi fans underrate Salvador,how Salvador+spare parts is fair value for Niinimaa

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11-21-2003, 10:51 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by degroat
Baron, specifically.
Khavanov is also bad, but doesn't exactly qualify for 'aging'.
Khavanov a big yes Baron no. He is a solid stay at home guy.

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11-21-2003, 10:54 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I don't know how he did it, but you'd be amazed how much better he was this year compared to last year.

Well, I'll take a look at his game!

Nice to have Center Ice, eh?

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11-21-2003, 10:54 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by c-carp
Khavanov a big yes Baron no. He is a solid stay at home guy.
I disagree. He's had more than a half dozen games already this year where he has been downright bad. A prefect example was Wednesday night when he was particularly horrible... especially when Savage skated right around him and put the puck in the net.

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11-21-2003, 10:55 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, I'll take a look at his game!

Nice to have Center Ice, eh?
Not unless you get AHL games on here... he was just demoted.

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11-21-2003, 10:56 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Trottier
Minor problem: doesn't take into consideration what your trading partner needs!

If Isles are getting a dman back in a deal, they do not need a another soft(er) player on the backline. Khavanov = Martinek = Timander for the most part.

What is required by NYI (in case anyone cares) is a guy who can provide a modicum of physical play. If you can address that need, great! If not, fine. But no need to bestow upon us players who you want us to have.
OK, Ill offer Salvador in place of Khavanov?

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