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Malkin vs Kopitar

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Old
10-16-2006, 08:45 AM
  #51
Jacob
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Based on all reports I've ever heard.

Is the SEL even the best league in Scandinavia?

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Old
10-16-2006, 09:52 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Based on all reports I've ever heard.

Is the SEL even the best league in Scandinavia?

SEL is wideley known as the best leuage outside of NHL. I can agree that RSL is equal, but other than that your reports are off.

So it goes like this.

RSL > SEL in Skill and offense
SEL > RSL in strategy, teamwork, defense

Plus that SEL has many even teams this year. Anyone can virtually win, and not 2-3 teams that are superior the others. The finnish league is also good, but it doesn't have the money to compete with SEL. More talented europeans prefer SEL to the finnish league for that sole reason. Look at the lockout season. Many high profile players from NHL played in SEL that year.

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Old
10-16-2006, 09:57 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SectionX View Post
Plus that SEL has many even teams this year. Anyone can virtually win, and not 2-3 teams that are superior the others. The finnish league is also good, but it doesn't have the money to compete with SEL. More talented europeans prefer SEL to the finnish league for that sole reason. Look at the lockout season. Many high profile players from NHL played in SEL that year.
More played in the RSL and CEL.

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Old
10-16-2006, 10:10 AM
  #54
Joe MacMillan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SectionX View Post
SEL is wideley known as the best leuage outside of NHL. I can agree that RSL is equal, but other than that your reports are off.
RSL is known to be the best league outside the NHL.

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Old
10-16-2006, 10:50 AM
  #55
The Amity Affliction
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I'm a Ranger fan, but the Kings are one of my top 5 favorites in the NHL, and I LOVE Kopitar... whoever said he doesn't have that breakaway speed obviously didn't see Anze's first goal when he made Chris Pronger look like a schoolboy.

That being said... Malkin is just unreal.

Malkin was the consensus "best player not playing in the NHL" last year. Malkin is a generational talent that comes along once or twice every 10-15 years. He is just absolutely FILTHY.

Malkin by a landslide on this one, but let's discount Anze here... he's pretty damn good himself.

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Old
10-16-2006, 11:10 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by blacklabel View Post
RSL is known to be the best league outside the NHL.
I doubt that RSL could be called the second league in the world. It is a one-nation league with foreign goalkepeers.

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Old
10-16-2006, 11:25 AM
  #57
Ryan Van Horne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I actually specifically quoted and was referring to and in fact quoted one post that said that 'you guys are in for a surprise. the gap is alot closer then you imagine.' Though others have said similar. I stand by my statement. I have heard it all before. Don't get me wrong, Kopitar seems to be a fine player. As were and are the ones in the threads that I pulled up. Malkin however is in another class entirely. He is every bit the prospect that Crosby and Ovechkin were coming into their rookie years.
I read "you guys are in for a surprise. the gap is a lot closer than you imagine." as Malkin is better, but Kopitar is underrated and is better than people give him credit for. It does not strike me as a claim that Kopitar is better than Malkin or even that he is in the same class as Malkin.

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Old
10-16-2006, 11:40 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I'm a Ranger fan, but the Kings are one of my top 5 favorites in the NHL, and I LOVE Kopitar... whoever said he doesn't have that breakaway speed obviously didn't see Anze's first goal when he made Chris Pronger look like a schoolboy.

That being said... Malkin is just unreal.

Malkin was the consensus "best player not playing in the NHL" last year. Malkin is a generational talent that comes along once or twice every 10-15 years. He is just absolutely FILTHY.

Malkin by a landslide on this one, but let's discount Anze here... he's pretty damn good himself.


Malkin is much overrated on this board. Yes he is a good player.Especially for a 20 year old.
But he wasn't even the best player in RSL last year. It was Morozov.

I think that the hype about Malkin came out because of AO.
A young player comes in the league and makes 106 points in his rookie year.
Then russian guys tell about great Malkin. He's more talented than AO and he's from another Universe.
TREMBLE HUMANS THE GREAT MALKIN IS COMING!!!(To say a demonic voice, in the end it is possible to burst out laughing ominously. )

In fact Malkin is of course very talented and already a world class center which is very intriguing, but HE'S NOT a great player like Forsberg or Larionov for now. He's got some weaknesses.

At this point i would say: Malkin is ranked higher than Kopitar but they are comparable.

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Old
10-16-2006, 11:46 AM
  #59
Joe MacMillan
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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
I doubt that RSL could be called the second league in the world. It is a one-nation league with foreign goalkepeers.
Well, you can have your doubts but it is commonly known that RSL is the best league in the world after the NHL.

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Old
10-16-2006, 11:49 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by blacklabel View Post
Well, you can have your doubts but it is commonly known that RSL is the best league in the world after the NHL.
Based on what?

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Old
10-20-2006, 08:45 PM
  #61
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Here is Kopitars 3rd goal and an interview after the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bataCpJnkyU

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Old
10-20-2006, 10:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LeftKinger View Post
Here is Kopitars 3rd goal and an interview after the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bataCpJnkyU
Like Fox says that takes alot of patience to wait for that and at 19 that is amazing. Cant wait t see him fully develop.

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Old
10-21-2006, 03:44 AM
  #63
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About topic a bit. Kopitar will be huge, I see potential as great franchise player for Kings. And it's just wrong for that kind of talent to be compared to player like Malkin. Same as you would have compared Oates to Gretzky. It isn't nothing away of Kopitar being smaller prospect than Malkin is.

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Old
10-21-2006, 05:14 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I have heard it before:

Me: Prucha better than Crosby
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...=Prucha+Crosby

Stan Fischler: Prucha better than Crosby ‎
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...=Prucha+Crosby

the five or so Parise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crosby threads that i think the original posters deleted in shame recently.

The Vanek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crosby threads.

..........and on and on. Believe me, unless this one is deleted as well, I will gladly pull this one up in a year to have a good laugh over too.
So basically, your point is that anybody using the >>>>>>>>>>> no-argument should look stupid except if the player at the greater end of the equation plays for Pittsburgh?

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Old
10-21-2006, 10:37 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
I think Malkin is better, but the gap isn't as big as many people thought going into the season. As impressive as Kopitar's start is, though, I think Malkin's would have been moreso.

Last year in the RSL, Malkin had 21g, 26a for 47 pts in 46 games.

Last year in the SEL, Kopitar had 8g, 12a for 20 pts in 47 games.

Malkin is one year, three weeks older than Kopitar. Both were playing in a pro league. I leave it to the Swedes and Russians to argue which is a tougher league, but I would give the edge to the SEL. Regardless, scoring is low in both leagues as assists are tougher to come by.

I've seen highlights of Malkin and his skating is very impressive for a big man. Kopitar moves well, too, but he doesn't have the breakaway speed that Malkin does. Some of the highlights I've seen, he looks like a runaway freight train. That's my two cents. Next?
If I remember correctly Malkin played in the best league in Russia while Kopitar was in med teir league.

As for the player Malkin is far superior.

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Old
10-21-2006, 10:49 AM
  #66
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In the "Thinking the game" area, Kopitar doesn't even come close.

Skating I rank Malkin higher because of the speed

Moves I rank Malkin higher.

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Old
10-21-2006, 11:19 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RedWingFan View Post
In the "Thinking the game" area, Kopitar doesn't even come close.

Skating I rank Malkin higher because of the speed

Moves I rank Malkin higher.
I wouldnt be so sure that Kpitar isnt even close in the thinking the game area. Speed I can give to Malkin as far as moves that debatable also. All I can say is keep underestimating Kopitar.

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Old
10-21-2006, 12:44 PM
  #68
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I just dont get why many seem to think Malkin >>>> Kopitar, from what ive seen by watching them play I see tremendous upside in both, if one didnt have the words Malkin on the back and one didnt have the words kopitar on the back would I be saying wow this guy is far more superior than this guy? my observations (and havent seen too much of Malkin) is Malkin seems to go by players a bit easier, but with the puck in close..ive liked Kopitars game better, For those who cite what Malkin did on his team last year compared to what Kopitar did...i dont think thats too relevant, like comparing apples and oranges (for many reasons dont wanna get into),why not compare what Malkin did last year at 19 compared to Kopitar at 19? at 19 Kopitar is doing well in a league better than the SEL...the league is called the NHL.... 9 points in 8 games so far...not bad....so if Kopitar played at the age of 19 in the RSL this year, could he also dominate (or come close ) to what Malkin did at 19 in the RSL... its very very plausible...so to say >>>> seems unrealistic to me, seems like we label players at draft day...and want to stick to our guns...and anyone not agreeing to that is "an idiot", looking at Kopitar (so far), his upside seems to be that of a Thornton type or somehting in that league...let me re-iterate - UPSIDE, so if Malkin >>>>> than kopitar... were looking at the next lemieux?Thats what many posters have me to believe.

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Old
10-21-2006, 02:43 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Malkin is the better player but not by a boatload, From what i hear Kopitar is rounding up his defensive game, which is closing the gap even more. NOW, Malkin has Extremely good Defense so thats where i think the margin lies. He will be the Next Sergei Federov.

I see their offensive games to be very close together. Malkin i think has a SLIGHT advantage offensively id put him in the 110-120 point potential.. while Kopitar at 110 flat.
I agree, you made the best points. Only time can tell though as they are still very young. Im a Kings fan.

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Old
10-21-2006, 05:00 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingFan View Post
In the "Thinking the game" area, Kopitar doesn't even come close.

Skating I rank Malkin higher because of the speed

Moves I rank Malkin higher.
Kopitar's game thinking is his best asset. I haven't seen Malkin all that much, but I question anyone who says it doesn't even come close.

As for numbers on their respective teams... I'll admit that Malkin's numbers are impressive and by all means, you aren't wrong to think higher of him. But, I think it's a weak argument to discredit Kopitar simply because his numbers weren't as good.

At the very least, you can argue that some players play a better North American game than European game. Kopitar's put up 9 points in 8 NHL games as a 19 year-old rookie. He's also been the best overall player on the entire team, and completely earned his top line ice time while he was originally slated by new management to start the season in Manchester.

Again, it's cool if you like Malkin more, but I honestly hope you're saying it because you've actually seen both Malkin and Kopitar play. I'm TiVoing Columbus vs. Pittsburgh tonight to get my first glimpse of Malkin in action, myself.

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Old
10-22-2006, 02:58 AM
  #71
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They both look close enough, and the dreaded "one year younger" argument can be used in favor of Kopitar.

I'd like to see where they finish the year points-wise. Seems like a two horse race at this point though.

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Old
10-22-2006, 10:50 AM
  #72
Ryan Van Horne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
They both look close enough, and the dreaded "one year younger" argument can be used in favor of Kopitar.
Why do you say the "dreaded" one-year younger argument. Kopitar is 19 and Malkin is 20. It is a valid point. Players make huge strides in development from 17-22. It does not mean that Kopitar is better, but to get a really good comparison between the two, you'd have to see them perform at the NHL level for three to four years. By that point, both will have done most of their developing and will have settled in as NHL regulars. Sure they will still get better after that, but it is very tricky comparing players who are not the same age.

Scouts look at age when comparing players. Every so often, players such as Bryan Little are touted as being better than players such as Jordan Staal and people wonder why Staal is drafted ahead of Little.

I'm not knocking Little. But age is an important factor when projecting development. And, dread it or not, GMs consider it when drafting players and scouts consider it when evaluating players at a young age. Obviously once a player gets into this 20s -- 22, 23 -- a one-year difference in age is negligible. But the difference between 19 and 20 is significant enough to mention.

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Old
10-22-2006, 11:07 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Look WikegŚrd said it the best way, the best players in the Finnish league goes to the SEL, the players in Sweden who don't get contracts, goes the other way. Thats pretty much a fact.
0 finnish players of top-20 last year changed to Swedish team. Meanwhile most of goalies who are 2nd strings or playing in second level in Finland are being starting goalies/equal partners in your so l33t league.

Sure swedish teams have more money and more top talented players, BUT in Finland there is still good amount of talent in youngsters and own players. And there isn't many swedish players anyway in here and at least ÷hman were top player in his swedish team too. Or you think ÷hman wouldn't have get contract?

All in all, surely Sweden got more nameplayers, more money guarintees it. But if you are just about money, then you can't compete with RSL or even Swiss league, so is it all about money or about teams generally? Seems like when you are comparing Sweden vs Russia it's about your opionions, rosters etc. None of results or budgets matter. Then when you are going to compare Sweden vs Finland it's all about budgets and names, nothing about results or true level of playing.

So you are twisting facts as long as it shows in your eyes your league is better, no matter what others(ie. some unbiased experts) think or say or show.

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Old
10-22-2006, 11:27 AM
  #74
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Malkin 3 games, 3 goals, 1 assist

Kopitar 8 games, 3 goals, 6 assist


the argument about the year younger thing shouldnt fly here, because it is considered not even a factor among the argument with crosby and ovechkin, and ovechkin is two years older than crosby. people on these boards say its ridiculous to use that factor when comparing those two and say its a non issue.

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Old
10-22-2006, 12:07 PM
  #75
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malkin hands down

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