Here is my thinking, send Nigel down a week or two to get his offensive confidence back and call up Greg Moore and see what he can do during that time. I don't think sending Dawes down will hurt him, I actually bet it will help him in the long run this season (It didn't hurt Prucha to go down at the start of last season).
Greg Moore I thought looked better OFFENSIVELY than Dawes in the preseason and seemed to have some chemistry playing with Cullen/Prucha. With JJ having a semi-slow start we need to get some more offense from other players.
i rather bring up dubinsky or jarko and put them on the third line center
Dubinsky maybe, but Immo didn't show 1/2 of what Moore showed in preseason. Where is all the love for Greg Moore? I thought he showed he is ready for the next step in his career.
tough to say, Dawes hasnt had enough time to prove he can play in limited minutes or up top. Maybe he can find a niche down there, or maybe not. The kid made the team, he earned that, lets not send him down so quickly.
Game to Game these guys get looked at. Theres also so much adjustment to their team, the practices, and even the arena that 3 games is no where enough time to evaluate his true playing ability in whatever role Renney decides for him... give him the month and then lets see.
Dawes will score 3 goals in the next 5 games he plays.
Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 10-12-2006 at 03:11 PM.
Dawes biggest problem is the centers he's playing with. Playing with Betts and Hollweg aren't going to help anyone's numbers. He's been wide open a few times, but Betts never passes. It's still only 3 games, give him some more time to get comfortable playing in the NHL.
I wouldn't mind seeing Immonen called up to play third line center (with Dawes and Hall). See if that line can create some offense. Move Betts down to the 4th line with Hollweg and Ward for a checking line.
Alot of people knock Immonen's pre-season, but I don't think he was that bad. He played great in the win over the devils, I think he had a goal and an assist in the 2-0 win.
Dawes biggest problem is the centers he's playing with. Playing with Betts and Hollweg aren't going to help anyone's numbers. He's been wide open a few times, but Betts never passes. It's still only 3 games, give him some more time to get comfortable playing in the NHL.
I wouldn't mind seeing Immonen called up to play third line center (with Dawes and Hall). See if that line can create some offense. Move Betts down to the 4th line with Hollweg and Ward for a checking line.
Alot of people knock Immonen's pre-season, but I don't think he was that bad. He played great in the win over the devils, I think he had a goal and an assist in the 2-0 win.
I agree with your assessment SH. It doesn't make any sense to demote Dawes, then promote the playmaking center he's lacking. Use 23rd roster spot that Renney isn't using to get Jarkko up and pair him with Dawes and Hall.
Nothing against Greg Moore, but there's already too many bottom 6 forwards on the roster already.
I guess the 1 goal and 2 assists in two games (all consecutive Rangers points) doesn't count for much. I didn't see the fourth game and didn't think his first was as bad as people say. He didn't stand out, but didn't play poorly either.
As for the proposal - I can't agree that Moore looked better offensively. I thought Dawes held his own in the last couple games and played quite well. I think one problem is he doesn't have a lot of chemistry with Betts, who skates up, shoots, and skates back. Honestly, it's tough for anybody to have chemistry with him. That wouldn't absolve Dawes if he's dogging it or playing poorly, but I think the line as a whole isn't clicking. And when Hossa stepped into his place the result actually looked worse.
Personally, if he's not going to play in several games and if he's going to be playing 6-7 minutes in those games in which he plays, I'm not sure why keep him up other than the fact that Renney wants the option to go with a more offensive player than Orr.
playing with Betts doesn't have to be a disadvangtage, the goal of the dawes-betts-hall line should be....Betts shoots the puck and the other 2 crash the net.
I agree with your assessment SH. It doesn't make any sense to demote Dawes, then promote the playmaking center he's lacking.
I agree as well. As Fletch says, the problem is that when Betts is the center, it is hard for anyone to produce anything that comes close to looking like offense. Betts shoudl be the 4th line center, plain and simple. Give Immonen a chance to create something with Dawes and Hall. Let Hossa (who did look worse than Dawes when playing with Betts) sit.
playing with Betts doesn't have to be a disadvangtage, the goal of the dawes-betts-hall line should be....Betts shoots the puck and the other 2 crash the net.
That does not change the fact that Betts is not a 3rd line player. His very presence on the line lobotomizes any chance of offensive flow.
I agree as well. As Fletch says, the problem is that when Betts is the center, it is hard for anyone to produce anything that comes close to looking like offense. Betts shoudl be the 4th line center, plain and simple. Give Immonen a chance to create something with Dawes and Hall. Let Hossa (who did look worse than Dawes when playing with Betts) sit.
Agree! I don't want sweeping changes after 3 measly games, but at some point I'd like to see the 3rd line become more offense-oriented. I would argue to have Hossa or Ward on the 3rd line instead of Hall, though. I'm just not too high on him.
I would argue to have Hossa or Ward on the 3rd line instead of Hall, though. I'm just not too high on him.
If I ever saw anything in Hossa to make me think that he could ever amount to anything offensively, I would agree with you. Hall seems to have more upside than Ward.
It doesn't always work that Betts' wingers are with him or in position to crash the net when he shoots. Betts always thinks shoot first. He doesn't think where are my linemates or can I do anything else. He skates and shoots (he had two assists as the third line center - Ward, his linemate, somehow ended up with 14 (many when Betts was out)). I like Betts' size, hustle and faceoff abilities (and he does have a nice hard shot), but often I don't think he's the guy for the third line, and he's not a true 'checking' center. Early in the season we've seen why.
polako - I personally think Ward should be a third liner, but I don't think at this point Hall should be moving anywhere. He's played very well, and very aggressive, both in preseason and in the regular season. He also has a similar problem as Dawes - his centerman is Hall. If Dawes isn't in the picture, I woudn't mind seeing Ward on Betts' right and Hall on the left.
The thing about Hall, and Edge and I had this debate, there's still potential there. He has the size, skill and edge (no pun intended) to be a PF scoring 20+ goals this season. Seems to be that his problem has been playing with that edge on a consistent basis to realize that. I think as a PF who plays a PF game, it's taken a while for his game to develop and I'm not ready to throw him out yet as I think he's shown that edge these three games, and in preseason, and I'd like to see more.
I guess the 1 goal and 2 assists in two games (all consecutive Rangers points) doesn't count for much. I didn't see the fourth game and didn't think his first was as bad as people say. He didn't stand out, but didn't play poorly either.
As for the proposal - I can't agree that Moore looked better offensively. I thought Dawes held his own in the last couple games and played quite well. I think one problem is he doesn't have a lot of chemistry with Betts, who skates up, shoots, and skates back. Honestly, it's tough for anybody to have chemistry with him. That wouldn't absolve Dawes if he's dogging it or playing poorly, but I think the line as a whole isn't clicking. And when Hossa stepped into his place the result actually looked worse.
Personally, if he's not going to play in several games and if he's going to be playing 6-7 minutes in those games in which he plays, I'm not sure why keep him up other than the fact that Renney wants the option to go with a more offensive player than Orr.
Moore showed good chemistry with Cullen in the preseason. Who has Dawes clicked with so far? I am not saying this should happen right NOW to send down Dawes, but I think after 4 or so more games and he still has a big 0 for points Renney should consider it. Again, the same tactics were used with Prucha last season and it worked to his advantage.
Prucha/Cullen/Moore was one of our best lines during preseason, why not see if it will work again if Dawes doesn't start to produce?
Because I think the Rangers are better off with a top six of Straka, Nylander, Jagr, Prucha, Cullen and Shanahan; further, I don't want to see the Rangers' two top guns (Shanny and Jagr) on separate lines.
I think Cullen/Prucha/Moore played one game together, correct? And that game was against the Devils' AHL squad, primarily. I don't know if it's fair to talk about chemistry in a preseason game against the likes of those guys.
With whom has Dawes showed chemistry in his three games, two on a third line and one on a second? Very few. Did Dawes even play with Betts in the preseason? I cannot recall right now. But as I mentioned, it's tough to show chemistry with Betts (or tough to define). He doesn't do much with others.
No reason to send down Dawes after only three games, with that logic, almost the players should be sent down after the last game. Dawes needs some time and games to adjust.
i rather bring up dubinsky or jarko and put them on the third line center
I agree with that. Immonen with Hossa and Ward on the fourth line can generate a lot of offense. Dawes can't seem to score with Betts. Maybe Betts, Ward and Hollweg should play the fourth line. Trade Immonen for someone you can fit on the top three lines. He is 24 already.
