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Diving in general

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:04 PM
  #1
Spankatola Jamnuts*
 
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Diving in general

I think diving is a big problem in the league because it's so effective. The anachronistic officiating culture that has carried over from the days of Yore has created a bunch of See-No-Evil morons in stripes such that they believe that the worse a play looks, the worse it must be, without trying to apply any meaningful rationale to the situation.

It's all about image. Someone went down so something happened. You can see the same influence in the penalty hierarchy of high-sticking: 2 mins, 4 if there's icky blood, and 5 if there's some real oomph behind the infraction, regardless of how dangerous the play may have been prima facie. Another example is the idea of attempted spearing or butt-ending; these are supposedly so dangerous that even if you miss, just the stick motion is supposed to be enough to get you 2 minutes. But it's never called, can't be called in the current culture because no one's face down on the ice twitching if you miss.

The impression that I get is that the officials are either overwhelmed such that they're just reacting or they're complacent (which is what I lean towards). The league has penalties on the books for diving but the on-ice guys are either unwilling or unable to apply them properly. I think it's probably a bit of both.

I'd like to see a radical change in the state of officiating. I'd like to remove referees from the ice entirely and have the game officiated from the upstairs booths. They'd be more able to watch replays, keep an eye on everyone, hell you could even give them their own cameras and angles that they could control. A delayed penalty could be indicated by a light or a noise or something, or could be communicated by radio to the linesmen (who I'd definitely keep on the ice - two guys on the ice isn't as bad as four and they'd be needed to interpose themselves in altercations). Play could be under review at all times, and things that were missed previously could be called. Why? Because the players aren't dogs; if you wait a few minutes to rub their noses in it they'll understand what it's for.

The system would be more impartial because it would be anonymous. It would remove long-standing relationships with veteran players which can't help but taint the officials' minds. I think it would allow officials to call the rules as they're written without distraction or physical discomfort, and I think that it would lead at long last to a real, palpable reduction in the obstruction and grabbing that's plaguing the game. As for diving, one or two replays would only take a second to confirm one way or the other. It might get a little sticky in terms of goals being scored after infractions had been committed but before play had been stopped because of it, but that's nothing that a clear, firm policy couldn't alleviate.

So what do you all think? I'm prepared to hear how sacreligious I am, trying to change our beloved game and I respect that. What I'm not interested in is hearing that I think these things because I'm a jerk, or because Duck fans are whiners, or because everyone hates the Avalanche.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:08 PM
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Mack
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did you just delete the other thread?

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11-20-2003, 10:08 PM
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Do you have some sort of medical issue regarding an obsession for diving? My God.

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11-20-2003, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
did you just delete the other thread?
I don't think I can delete threads.

RIAL, you b!tched when it was about an Av, you b!tched when it was about someone else, and now you b!tch because it's not about anyone in general? Do you talk about hockey ever? Or just gossip about posters and make snide comments?

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11-20-2003, 10:14 PM
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yes you can delete threads and close them.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
I don't think I can delete threads.

RIAL, you b!tched when it was about an Av, you b!tched when it was about someone else, and now you b!tch because it's not about anyone in general? Do you talk about hockey ever? Or just gossip about posters and make snide comments?
well present something of substance or freshness and RIAL will be happy to oblige a conversation i'm sure..

put a toilet in front of him, he craps in it..

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:18 PM
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For some of the old timers here, who were some of the bigger divers back in the day? 70's and below.

I heard Billy Barber was one of the worst back then.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:21 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
yes you can delete threads and close them.
Oh. Well I haven't done that.

Andora's box, what makes my first post in this thread a toilet?

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:22 PM
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i have an idea, keep posting like you are and we can have a diving board

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora's box
i have an idea, keep posting like you are and we can have a diving board
Arankys is now happily posting on the enforcers board.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:26 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora's box
i have an idea, keep posting like you are and we can have a diving board
Can't think of a response then?

I don't know why I'm surprised. You and he are both threadkillers. Why get upset when a bear craps in the woods.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:36 PM
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What's wrong with you? Why do you have some idiotic obsession with diving? You're only mad because your team sucks and can't win, so you blame it on diving. Give it up already. No one wants to listen to your stupid ********, you just whine about how everyone dives and it's not fair blah blah blah Shut up already, we don't care.

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11-20-2003, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalie27
What's wrong with you? Why do you have some idiotic obsession with diving? You're only mad because your team sucks and can't win, so you blame it on diving. Give it up already. No one wants to listen to your stupid ********, you just whine about how everyone dives and it's not fair blah blah blah Shut up already, we don't care.


Well said.

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Old
11-20-2003, 10:53 PM
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I think he needs a hug. It's ok. Did you really expect the Ducks to have more than one cinderella season?

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"I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough." - Mark Twain.
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Old
11-20-2003, 10:57 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
Can't think of a response then?
oh yeah, that MUST be it..

your thread sucks, simply because you've started several, flooding the board with crap, stick to one thread.. that isn't hard, yet you didn't..

it obviously bothers you, great, it bothers me too, i hate diving, i hate seeing players go down easy.. but get over it.. voice your opinion here and there, but don't waste space with useless crap..

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:02 PM
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I didn't know one could write so much about the "Art of Diving."

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ_Devil_Boy
I didn't know one could write so much about the "Art of Diving."
Command and Conquer rules.

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:14 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Command and Conquer rules.
I know. C&C pwns

Unfortunately, there are only a few of us. With the down fall of Westwood, us C&C fans must trust EA .

Luckly, they saved Generals by releasing a great expansion in Zero Hour. If only they could buy Battle.net now...

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:20 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora's box
your thread sucks, simply because you've started several, flooding the board with crap, stick to one thread.. that isn't hard, yet you didn't..

it obviously bothers you, great, it bothers me too, i hate diving, i hate seeing players go down easy.. but get over it.. voice your opinion here and there, but don't waste space with useless crap..
I don't need to get over anything. You, like wazee, seem obsessed with following me around and telling me your opinion of me. That's pretty telling.

As for the number of threads: the first, which I didn't start, was closed. The one I started specifically to refute a claim by RIAL was also driven way off topic. Since that was the case, I started another one in response to the clamoring by the weeping Avs fans that they were being targeted. They weren't. That thread was hijacked by idiots like you with posts like the above.

This thread was just in response to the notion that I was baiting by targeting certain players and an attempt to start an actual conversation, although you seem to be well on the way to hijacking this one, too.

I'm not obsessed with anything; I'm being responsive to the b!tching in what I hope is a constructive way while trying to get a point across. No one ever refutes my arguments or my research; they just say that they have and then believe themselves. Pointing out rhetorical flaws on a board that has a few really loud people who aren't smart enough even to see how dumb they're being is a disheartening experience.

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11-20-2003, 11:24 PM
  #20
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There - in the interest of compromise I've deleted the other two threads. Thanks to Mack for pointing out that I could do that.

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Old
11-21-2003, 06:07 AM
  #21
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This is much better. At least this time, you are not obviously going out of your way to bait fans. If this didn't come after 2 different threads which you had already started in less than 2 days time, then I would be more inclined to care. Still, due to this fact, I see somebody that is having serious trouble getting over dives, and goes to the point of baiting people to get into an argument......maybe to vent anger If thats confusing, what I'm saying is this: you lost all credibility when the third thread started. Now that we are in the fourth thread, its extremely hard to find any value in this type of post.

I actually wished you hadn't deleted the other threads. It makes me feel like you were trying to cover up the posts.

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Old
11-21-2003, 06:14 AM
  #22
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I've only started 3 threads.

There was nothing to cover up in the first two and I'm happy to repost them if you like.

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Old
11-21-2003, 06:22 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
I've only started 3 threads.

There was nothing to cover up in the first two and I'm happy to repost them if you like.
I know you started only 3 threads, but you participated heavily in the first thread, started by Rallykiller I believe. Anyways, I hope you get my point. If you want to talk about diving, don't bait people, and you'll get reasonable responses. I know there was immaturity by a lot of Avs fans on this, but there was a lot by the others on the opposite side of the issue as well. Its ironic, to me, that when you did make your thread about Sakic diving, almost everyone did not think it was a dive. Yet judging by Rallykiller and a few other threads *cough*, everyone made it sound like Joe was out winning an Oscar every shift.

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:26 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
For some of the old timers here, who were some of the bigger divers back in the day? 70's and below.

I heard Billy Barber was one of the worst back then.
Phil Esposito

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Old
11-21-2003, 07:45 AM
  #25
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My question is this:

How can a player get called for tripping, or hooking or holding etc, etc. when a diving penalty has been called as a coincidental minor?

If one dives that would infer that no real infraction took place, correct?

The infraction and coincidental minor for diving calls drive me absolutely nuts.

How can there be a dive and another penalty at the same time?

If a player trips someone then there is no dive. If a player dives how can someone have tripped him?

See what this is doing to me.


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