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Old
10-20-2006, 03:08 PM
  #26
fishstixx
 
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[QUOTE=Killer Carlson;6821804]

As far as Martinek, on a good team he is at best a #4 man and that might even be generous. Yes, he leads this team in +/- but last I checked we're not very good so that doesn't impress me much. Leading the Islanders in +/- is like having the fastest Hyundai.QUOTE]

I can't think of any stat more important than +/-... And I think +4 on a team such as the Islanders right now isn't bad at all.

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10-20-2006, 03:11 PM
  #27
Killer Carlson
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Originally Posted by fishstixx View Post
I can't think of any stat more important than +/-... And I think +4 on a team such as the Islanders right now isn't bad at all.
I'm really not knocking his +/-. I just mean that stats can be misleading.

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10-20-2006, 03:18 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Carlson View Post
I just mean that stats can be misleading.
Especially +/-. Hell, I believe Marek f'ing Malik had the best +/- in 2003-04, but that certainly doesn't make him the best D-man in the league. Ditto that for Rozsival - he led in +/- last season, yet Ranger fans never seem to stop complaining about the guy. The stat depends heavily on how the coach uses the player. Guys who spend a lot of time playing on the PP or PK for example will have their +/- skewed since if they're on for a lot of PP goals-for or PK goals-against, it is not reflected in their rating.

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Old
10-21-2006, 12:11 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Carlson View Post
Poti and Zhitnik and DEFINITELY Campoli have more mobility than Marty.
That is just incorrect, Killer. Poti is very slow, come on now. Zhitnik needs to take hooking penalties to keep up with the opposing team. I guess you can make a case for Campoli but he is not a better lateral skater than Martinek. I'll give you the forwards you mentioned for now, because I was more focused on defense anyway, but if you can't see Martinek is the best skater on the blueline I don't know what you've been watching.

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Old
10-21-2006, 06:42 AM
  #30
Killer Carlson
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Originally Posted by MattyW View Post
That is just incorrect, Killer. Poti is very slow, come on now. Zhitnik needs to take hooking penalties to keep up with the opposing team. I guess you can make a case for Campoli but he is not a better lateral skater than Martinek. I'll give you the forwards you mentioned for now, because I was more focused on defense anyway, but if you can't see Martinek is the best skater on the blueline I don't know what you've been watching.
Hey, we all have different opinions of players and that's cool but I was thinking more in terms of players bringing the puck up and also handling the puck at the blue line in the other team's zone. My opinion is that I'd rather have any of those three instead of Martinek. Not to mention that Marty makes more bad clearing passes from his own zone than any D-man we have.

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10-21-2006, 07:17 AM
  #31
Capt Reynolds
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Martinek is prone to brain-freeze in his own zone where he just passes the puck straight up the middle. He's a solid enough skater but just doesn't do much with it. That' why he is what he is, a third pairing guy who is decent enough and can contribute in that role but who will disappoint if you expect more from him. Hey, the world needs third pairing Dmen too -- our problem isn't that Marty is a third pairing guy, it's that none of our others save Z really is a top pairing guy.

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10-21-2006, 09:05 AM
  #32
12# Peter Bondra
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Originally Posted by Killer Carlson View Post
Wasn't it a 1st rounder and a player? (Too lazy to look it up now)
Beech and a 1st rounder.

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Old
10-23-2006, 12:06 PM
  #33
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Just to chime in for a second (Witt is one of my favorite players).

This conversation pretty much mirrors what was said in Washington for many years.

There are parts of Witt's game that you love and parts that you want to run your head into the wall about. Sometimes he looks like a TOP physical defenseman and a wall, other times he looks lost.

It's kind of his M.O. at this point and you take the good with the bad.

But when all is said and done you've got a strong nasty guy out there who can log a ton of minutes, rally the troops and put some fear into people.

Not a cornerstone defenseman, but not a bad player on the whole.

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Old
10-23-2006, 04:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C. View Post
Martinek is prone to brain-freeze in his own zone where he just passes the puck straight up the middle. He's a solid enough skater but just doesn't do much with it. That' why he is what he is, a third pairing guy who is decent enough and can contribute in that role but who will disappoint if you expect more from him. Hey, the world needs third pairing Dmen too -- our problem isn't that Marty is a third pairing guy, it's that none of our others save Z really is a top pairing guy.
I'll some how agree while disagreeing with this statement Joe.
Edit - Possibly, having read my own post, agreeing while I disagree with this statement I think sounds better.
Orrrr, I completely agree, with only a few choice dissenting words.


I think overall Martinek's mental game is better than most of our d-men. But as I just said elsewhere, he doesn't have the offense to be a top guy, and he isn't 6'4" 225lbs and won't scare any opposing forwards on size. I think Marty is great when you put him with a guy who has more of what he doesn't, put him with a bigger guy on the bottom pairings, but him with a more offensive guy on the top pairing, or put him with a similar guy in the middle.

I personally think Martinek starts a rush or settles down possession with the puck in his own zone better than most of our guys, I think where his offensive instincts fail are once the team is in the offensive zone, or where that last pass should go approaching the other team's blueline (as in sometimes he might try to continue to skate it in, but I've seen a lot of guys try to make that play and not realize the obvious mistake of it.)

I wouldn't overlook his +/- this season though, he's played very well overall, but as I mention above, I wish he could figure out what to do with the puck once he gets to the offensive zone, he passes well enough I just don't think he sees the ice as well when he's up there, I think he's concentrating on just keeping the puck in and not too much else. Martinek hasn't had a minus game this season, and with only 6PIMs I think he's doing his job on the backend....but with Z-E-R-O points he ain't doing squat offensively (though he can like I said elsewhere skate the puck out of his own end quite well.)

,
Mitch


Last edited by mitchy22: 10-23-2006 at 04:45 PM. Reason: scarE
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Old
10-23-2006, 06:24 PM
  #35
Capt Reynolds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
I'll some how agree while disagreeing with this statement Joe.
Edit - Possibly, having read my own post, agreeing while I disagree with this statement I think sounds better.
Orrrr, I completely agree, with only a few choice dissenting words.


I personally think Martinek starts a rush or settles down possession with the puck in his own zone better than most of our guys, I think where his offensive instincts fail are once the team is in the offensive zone, or where that last pass should go approaching the other team's blueline (as in sometimes he might try to continue to skate it in, but I've seen a lot of guys try to make that play and not realize the obvious mistake of it.)
I'll agree with a few choice dissenting words myself. I was not referring to his offensive instincts when I spoke of his brain freeze as much as his defensive instincts -- in other words, I wasn't talk about his outlet pass as much as his clearing attempts. He makes a nice first pass when that's his intent, but he is susceptible to the "clearing pass up the middle" move that leads to prime scoring chances for the opposing teams. I think he's fine as a third pairing guy, particularly when balanced with someone who covers his flaws and who he can cover for as you suggested. He's just not enough of anything to be a top 2 pairing guy (meaning he doesn't put up enough points to be an offensive defenseman, he doesn't hit and isn't defensively sound enough to be a stay-at-home, etc.). He is what he is, a solid third pairing guy who won't hurt you too often, and that ain't too bad.

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Old
10-23-2006, 06:50 PM
  #36
mitchy22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C. View Post
I'll agree with a few choice dissenting words myself. I was not referring to his offensive instincts when I spoke of his brain freeze as much as his defensive instincts -- in other words, I wasn't talk about his outlet pass as much as his clearing attempts. He makes a nice first pass when that's his intent, but he is susceptible to the "clearing pass up the middle" move that leads to prime scoring chances for the opposing teams. I think he's fine as a third pairing guy, particularly when balanced with someone who covers his flaws and who he can cover for as you suggested. He's just not enough of anything to be a top 2 pairing guy (meaning he doesn't put up enough points to be an offensive defenseman, he doesn't hit and isn't defensively sound enough to be a stay-at-home, etc.). He is what he is, a solid third pairing guy who won't hurt you too often, and that ain't too bad.
Hey Joe (music plays in the background) -

I personally think his brain-freeze moments don't happen as often as I'm guessing you think they happen, but I'll try to keep any eye on how often he does the ooops up the middle didn't see that forward pick off my pass and go right in on Ricky routine over the course of this season to see if either of us are overstating/understating it.

,
Mitch

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:16 PM
  #37
Killer Carlson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C. View Post
He's just not enough of anything to be a top 2 pairing guy (meaning he doesn't put up enough points to be an offensive defenseman, he doesn't hit and isn't defensively sound enough to be a stay-at-home, etc.). He is what he is, a solid third pairing guy who won't hurt you too often, and that ain't too bad.
Well said. Like I've said on numerous occasions, he's replaceable. It isn't like he stinks up the ice but there are a million guys out there who can do what he can do.

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Old
11-18-2006, 12:28 PM
  #38
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just thought would be good time to bump this back up here...

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Old
11-18-2006, 12:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
You losing your mind Cory lol. 6 Martineks and we would be an AHL team. Martinek and Gervais are gone as soon as Bouchard and Campoli are back.
what was that Uncy Derek?

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11-19-2006, 04:59 PM
  #40
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what was that Uncy Derek?
I have been impressed with Martinek and Gervais during this little stretch. Have a lobster for me on Monday lol.

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