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Dismantling the Coyotes ...any offers ?

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Old
10-23-2006, 06:11 PM
  #76
salzy
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How about Nagy for Antero Niittymaki? Then Philly packages Esche + to the Sharks and takes Nabokov off their hands?

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10-23-2006, 06:33 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Doako View Post
Knee jerk dismantling 2 weeks into the season on a year where their isn't a crosby/ovechkin/kovulchuk available is a very silly thing to do. Phoenix has a decent team, but when you make alot of additions like Phoenix did, its going to take time to gel. If I were phoenix, i'd wait till the 41 game mark before i decide to rip down years of planning.
Had I not seen the 10 games Phoenix has played, I would be inclined to agree with you. It does seem extremely premature from an outsiders perspective, and on paper, Phoenix does appear to be half way decent. However, if you were to watch the tapes of the games Phoenix has played, you would understand the reaction by Phoenix fans. There is no emotion, no effort, and obviously no improvement from this roster. This situation will only get worse. It's really, really, really bad out here.

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10-23-2006, 06:33 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy View Post
How about Nagy for Antero Niittymaki? Then Philly packages Esche + to the Sharks and takes Nabokov off their hands?
Nagy will be worth a lot more than just Niittymaki.

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10-23-2006, 06:37 PM
  #79
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Nagy for Eric Brewer and Alexei Shkotov.

Both Nagy and Brewer are impending UFA's; Brewer would be a #4 defenseman on the Coyotes and he might thrive in that role where he's not expected to be the #1/#2 defenseman (because he's more than worn out his welcome with Blues fans). Shkotov has signaled that he's not going to play for the Blues anytime ... well, ever. He supposedly has NHL-level skills, but wants a guaranteed spot on an NHL roster before he'll come over - if Phoenix can figure out how to get him over, he's all theirs.

Saves Phoenix just under $1M toward the cap.

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10-23-2006, 06:38 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Doako View Post
Knee jerk dismantling 2 weeks into the season on a year where their isn't a crosby/ovechkin/kovulchuk available is a very silly thing to do. Phoenix has a decent team, but when you make alot of additions like Phoenix did, its going to take time to gel. If I were phoenix, i'd wait till the 41 game mark before i decide to rip down years of planning.
The time is now. Its just over. Every fan in Phoenix knows it. Some of us think thers a possiblity for a half assed partial rebuild but everyone knows this was "the year" the Core had a chance to prove they could be a playoff team and they flopped. Everyone is available except Ballard and Michalek, Sjostrom as well most likely. I know the team is a big fan of Boynton too so cross him off your lists.

Everything else is fair game.

You could easily see Doan for Carter or Doan for Svatos + at some point. I would be really upset if we didnt flat out win a trade involving Doan because he brings so much to the table. You guys can call us homers for overrating him but you'd feel the same if he ever suited up for your team.

Doan for Carter, Ruzicka? Fair value? Maybe throw in Scatchard for even more heart in the Philly lockeroom. You never know. We just want some solid young players to come back our way.

Trades mentioned on our board:
Comrie for Pavalec
Comrie, Nagy for Toews or Little
Morris for Biron is a popular one.
etc...

The offers here are okay, some of them. But really its to be expected of HFboards that rarely a trade offer comes up that both say wow, this works. Lets fax it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Nagy for Eric Brewer and Alexei Shkotov.
Crap offer. Ill tell you why. Brewer has nothing on our young guys like Yandle and Jones or Michalek, Ballard, Jovo. Trading Nagy for a defenseman, who is a UFA to be, would be downright retarded. Im not going to even address the journeyman tossed in, because hes a moot point. Defense isnt the Coyotes problem and in order to trade one of our chips for a Dman they would have to be studly or a utility guy part of a bigger deal.

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10-23-2006, 06:40 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers_23 View Post
To Coyotes: Alvaro Montoya, Jarkko Immonen and a 2nd

To Rangers: Shane Doan and Derek Morris
Might just be me, but this one seemed pretty fair. Although I'm not sure if the Rangers could fit this under the cap since it's 7 mil going the other way (or whatever prorated amount for the rest of the year).

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Old
10-23-2006, 06:42 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
Crap offer. Ill tell you why. Brewer has nothing on our young guys like Yandle and Jones or Michalek, Ballard, Jovo. Trading Nagy for a defenseman, who is a UFA to be, would be downright retarded. Im not going to even address the journeyman tossed in, because hes a moot point. Defense isnt the Coyotes problem and in order to trade one of our chips for a Dman they would have to be studly or a utility guy part of a bigger deal.
Please go find out who Alexei Shkotov is before you tag him as a "journeyman".

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10-23-2006, 06:44 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Might just be me, but this one seemed pretty fair. Although I'm not sure if the Rangers could fit this under the cap since it's 7 mil going the other way (or whatever prorated amount for the rest of the year).
Fair value, but you have to throw in Benoit Allaire, and he didnt exactly leave on good terms with management here. Plus, id love to get Prucha thrown in there instead of Immonen and the 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Please go find out who Alexei Shkotov is before you tag him as a "journeyman".
A player you have to fight tooth and nail to play for your damn team isnt exactly good value, sorry.

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10-23-2006, 06:49 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
A player you have to fight tooth and nail to play for your damn team isnt exactly good value, sorry.
Again ... he wants a guaranteed spot in the NHL - has wanted that for 3 years now (starting at age 19). No one questions whether or not he has NHL-caliber skills ... it's a matter of convincing him to actually compete for an NHL job instead of having it handed to him on a silver platter.

Journeyman ... a 22-year old prospect. That's classic.

This thread is yet another great "our guys are great - you want 'em, you'll have to overpay" example of overrating what players will eventually bring back in a trade. I'll put $20 down now that Nagy brings back closer to what I proposed than he does what you want for him.

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Old
10-23-2006, 06:51 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Again ... he wants a guaranteed spot in the NHL - has wanted that for 3 years now (starting at age 19). No one questions whether or not he has NHL-caliber skills ... it's a matter of convincing him to actually compete for an NHL job instead of having it handed to him on a silver platter.
Like Gretzky wants any part of that. Im just being honest here. Why would Barnett trade one of his chips for a defenseman he doesnt need and a russian that wants things his way? This isnt Malkin we're talking about here.

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10-23-2006, 06:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Malone is a significant downgrade from Ladislav Nagy. The over the hill John LeClair helps us in no way. If we were to ship off players like Nagy it would be for high end prospects and draft picks, not for underacheving veterens and players well, well past their prime.
A couple of things:

1. I don't think Malone alone is enough for Nagy.
2. LeClair is mentioned only because the dollars would have to come close to balancing in a deal.
3. Malone is under contract for this year and next. He may have one year after that to be a UFA.
4. Malone for Comrie actually is kind of interesting, given that Comrie brings more speed to the table.

I personally don't think the Pens are a good trading partner. I mean, they could offer Malone, LeClair (again, not for value, but to make the dollars work), and a mid range offensive prospect (perhaps Christensen, who was a second round pick a few years ago, has some offensive upside, but doesn't project at center behind Sid, Malkin, Staal) for Nagy and say a conditional fourth rounder if Nagy doesn't resign.

The thing with impending UFA's is that you need to find a team loaded with the right prospects who will see Nagy as the missing piece. It's doable, but it's tough.

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10-23-2006, 06:55 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post

This thread is yet another great "our guys are great - you want 'em, you'll have to overpay" example of overrating what players will eventually bring back in a trade.
And your offer is a classic example of, "give me something good for something I don't want, and you don't need". Roll your eyes all you want but it's a terrible offer.

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10-23-2006, 06:56 PM
  #88
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Want to undo the Nedved for Siedenberg trade?

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10-23-2006, 06:57 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

The thing with impending UFA's is that you need to find a team loaded with the right prospects who will see Nagy as the missing piece. It's doable, but it's tough.
Any team who acquires him can start negotiating with Nagy in January. Rental players that are no where near his calibre returned first rounders at the deadline last year. Denis Gauthier and Brendan Witt returned first round picks, for crying out loud.

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10-23-2006, 06:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Dr Love View Post
Want to undo the Nedved for Siedenberg trade?
Yes. Seidenberg, Nagy, and Comrie for Richards, Carter, and Nedved. There, it's perfect. I'll send the paper work. DONT ASK ANY QUESTIONS.

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10-23-2006, 07:00 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
The time is now. Its just over. Every fan in Phoenix knows it. Some of us think thers a possiblity for a half assed partial rebuild but everyone knows this was "the year" the Core had a chance to prove they could be a playoff team and they flopped. Everyone is available except Ballard and Michalek, Sjostrom as well most likely. I know the team is a big fan of Boynton too so cross him off your lists.

Everything else is fair game.

You could easily see Doan for Carter or Doan for Svatos + at some point. I would be really upset if we didnt flat out win a trade involving Doan because he brings so much to the table. You guys can call us homers for overrating him but you'd feel the same if he ever suited up for your team.

Doan for Carter, Ruzicka? Fair value? Maybe throw in Scatchard for even more heart in the Philly lockeroom. You never know. We just want some solid young players to come back our way.

Trades mentioned on our board:
Comrie for Pavalec
Comrie, Nagy for Toews or Little
Morris for Biron is a popular one.
etc...

The offers here are okay, some of them. But really its to be expected of HFboards that rarely a trade offer comes up that both say wow, this works. Lets fax it.



Crap offer. Ill tell you why. Brewer has nothing on our young guys like Yandle and Jones or Michalek, Ballard, Jovo. Trading Nagy for a defenseman, who is a UFA to be, would be downright retarded. Im not going to even address the journeyman tossed in, because hes a moot point. Defense isnt the Coyotes problem and in order to trade one of our chips for a Dman they would have to be studly or a utility guy part of a bigger deal.
You know what, you're right about how people look at these trades, and I admit as much guilt as the next person with my Malone and LeClair for Nagy idea. That was governed by Nagy being a UFA. So, let me try from a Pens perspective to be fair:

Nagy for Malone, LeClair, Christensen. I know what Nagy would being to the Pens. Malone is under contract for the next two seasons and may have another year after that before free agency (not sure). LeClair is in there to make the dollars balance out; he is a UFA after this season. Christensen was a second round pick a few years ago. He's 22 or 23, has some real offensive upside but, as a center, doesn't project into the Pens long term plans. The key would be if Nagy could be resigned.

Frankly, if you're so deep on defense, I wouldn't mind a guy like Morris. The problem for the Pens is the dollars. How much does he make? What's his contract status? If he were under contract for reasonable dollars and not an impending UFA and if the Yotes would take back a scrub contract (think Scuderi or Melichar for 500-750K), then I could see the Pens giving up a guy like Gologoski in the process (I don't see Welch; I doubt Letang).

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10-23-2006, 07:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Any team who acquires him can start negotiating with Nagy in January. Rental players that are no where near his calibre returned first rounders at the deadline last year. Denis Gauthier and Brendan Witt returned first round picks, for crying out loud.
Oh, I don't disagree, which is why I said it wasn't impossible. So, I tried again. Is my new deal any better? It's probably the best the Pens could do in a dollar for dollar deal. They don't really have a glut of top two line prospects in WBS; Christensen may be the best in this regard.

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10-23-2006, 07:04 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Frankly, if you're so deep on defense, I wouldn't mind a guy like Morris. The problem for the Pens is the dollars. How much does he make? What's his contract status? If he were under contract for reasonable dollars and not an impending UFA and if the Yotes would take back a scrub contract (think Scuderi or Melichar for 500-750K), then I could see the Pens giving up a guy like Gologoski in the process (I don't see Welch; I doubt Letang).
$3.9M a season for three more seasons I believe is what Morris is making. I really don't think being a UFA hurts Nagy's trade value as much as people here are saying it will. Just look at what a lot of other UFA's that are not as good as Nagy got in return at last year's trade deadline.

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10-23-2006, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You know what, you're right about how people look at these trades, and I admit as much guilt as the next person with my Malone and LeClair for Nagy idea. That was governed by Nagy being a UFA. So, let me try from a Pens perspective to be fair:

Nagy for Malone, LeClair, Christensen.

What's his contract status? If he were under contract for reasonable dollars and not an impending UFA and if the Yotes would take back a scrub contract (think Scuderi or Melichar for 500-750K), then I could see the Pens giving up a guy like Gologoski in the process (I don't see Welch; I doubt Letang).
Ehh its not terribly appealing, but it is fairly realistic. Not sure what LeClair is going to do in the desert. Maybe golf it up with Roenick and Nolan? Morris is 3.9 with 2 years left if I remember right. For a #2 defenseman, considering this last offseason, thats pretty damn good. Again, Gologoski is a defenseman, and that is what we dont need.

I would say no deal from a PHX prospective.

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10-23-2006, 07:07 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You know what, you're right about how people look at these trades, and I admit as much guilt as the next person with my Malone and LeClair for Nagy idea. That was governed by Nagy being a UFA. So, let me try from a Pens perspective to be fair:

Nagy for Malone, LeClair, Christensen.
Phoenix would be looking for scoring prospects. All of Pittsburgh's are either too good, or not good enough. I don't see a fit. Just my opinion.

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:11 PM
  #96
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Phoenix: Doan

to

Philly: Downie, 2nd round pick, Freddy Meyer

Good?


Last edited by mikemac11: 10-23-2006 at 07:18 PM.
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Old
10-23-2006, 07:11 PM
  #97
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Ehh its not terribly appealing, but it is fairly realistic. Not sure what LeClair is going to do in the desert. Maybe golf it up with Roenick and Nolan? Morris is 3.9 with 2 years left if I remember right. For a #2 defenseman, considering this last offseason, thats pretty damn good. Again, Gologoski is a defenseman, and that is what we dont need.

I would say no deal from a PHX prospective.
I don't think the Pens are an good trading partner. As someone else suggested, maybe Malone for Comrie-- enigma for enigma-- could work, but the problem with Comrie, as it is with Nagy, is the dollars. Just so you know, that's the only reason I'm including him. I think, even as a Pens fan, that LeClair has less value than Roenick or Nolan, which really is saying something these days . . .

Just so you know, Gologoski is a defenseman, but he's in his second year of college. He's 2-4 more years away from being on a roster, and, in Letang, the Pens already have a player who plays a similar game. Morris is too much money to make a deal happen anyway.

But, there could be a deal for a for a forward. Christensen actually is a nice prospect. He played a dozen or so games last year. He has second line center upside, but he was streaky and his defense needed work, which means he'll fit right in . . . Again, seriously, the Pens are loaded at center; that's the only reason his value is diminished in my eyes.

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:12 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac11 View Post
Phoenix: Doan and Morris

to

Philly: Downie, 2nd round pick, Freddy Meyer

Good?
No, thanks.

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10-23-2006, 07:13 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac11 View Post
Phoenix: Doan and Morris

to

Philly: Downie, 2nd round pick, Freddy Meyer, Ruzicka, Carter, Richards

Good?
aye, good. You want Saprykin with that?

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10-23-2006, 07:15 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Yes. Seidenberg, Nagy, and Comrie for Richards, Carter, and Nedved. There, it's perfect. I'll send the paper work. DONT ASK ANY QUESTIONS.
Since I can't ask any questions, I won't ask if you're drunk, I'll just state that you are drunk.

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