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Why the NHL is sinking in the US?

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Old
11-23-2003, 09:14 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Maybe if Canadians werent so nationalistic about Hockey there would be more fans in the US. So many Canadians have the attitude that Hockey belongs to them, and all the Americans, Russians, Czechs, etc out there who play the game are somehow unworthy or are stealing it.
Yup, and the anti-American bias is pretty evident in this thread. It's obvious the NHL wants more fans of the game, but some of you people act like we're stealing your candy or something instead of welcoming in new fans. Try telling people from Minnesota that the US doesn't have any "real hockey culture".

Interestingly enough, the front page story in the St. Pete Times Sports section yesterday was about the Heritage Classic, with a big picture of the stadium, diagrams of how they set up the stadium and how they made the ice, and quotes from Saskatoon native Cory Sarich about the importance of the game to Canada. And this was in a Florida newspaper, where people are probably more attached to their college football teams than they are to their NFL teams.

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11-23-2003, 09:29 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
I don't see any Americans complaining in this thread, only Canadians. I find that's usually the case with threads like these, or really any thread that's a U.S./Canada comparison. Are you really that insecure? You're sitting here downgrading a sport (college football) that I believe is older than the NHL and has just as rabid of a following in this country as hockey does in Canada. BTW, I think Americans have supported the concept of an outdoor game, to the tune of 70,000+ at an outdoor game that was played between Michigan and Michigan State. That's right, two COLLEGE hockey teams. Get over yourself.
As a Canadian who was at the Classic and thought the Oilers did a fantastic job of putting on a great show....I agree with you.

This game was never about TV in the States or competing with College football. It was also not about Canada "owning" hockey. It was about a great hockey heritage in a great hockey city, and players giving something back, and an opportunity to do something special (knowing that it was not possible to set the record attendance because everyone knew about the Michigan game).

And - who says hockey is "sinking" in the US? There are some franchises in trouble - so are teams up here.

This thread was a silly and juvenile opportunity to bash Americans again. Get over it - the reason they have more teams down south is that they have more markets and potential for growth, and I haven't heard any complaints from the hundreds of extra Canadians able to make their livings as a result.

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Old
11-23-2003, 09:50 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gb701
As a Canadian who was at the Classic and thought the Oilers did a fantastic job of putting on a great show....I agree with you.

This game was never about TV in the States or competing with College football. It was also not about Canada "owning" hockey. It was about a great hockey heritage in a great hockey city, and players giving something back, and an opportunity to do something special (knowing that it was not possible to set the record attendance because everyone knew about the Michigan game).

And - who says hockey is "sinking" in the US? There are some franchises in trouble - so are teams up here.

This thread was a silly and juvenile opportunity to bash Americans again. Get over it - the reason they have more teams down south is that they have more markets and potential for growth, and I haven't heard any complaints from the hundreds of extra Canadians able to make their livings as a result.

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Old
11-23-2003, 10:46 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Well if College Football/basketball, NFL, NBA, MLB, Nascar are all bigger then Hockey in the USA then why are americans getting 24 of 30 teams in the NHL.

You agreed that College football is just as big in the USA as Hockey is in Canada, I tend to disagree, Hockey is the only major sport in Canada which College football is one of 5 or 6.

Hockey shouldn't be spread out to new areas where there is no suppost, it should remain in Canada. I would rather less tv contracts, less publisity for Hockey that would lower all prices then to see a couple teams down south that not many care about. You don't see the NFL moving to Toronto or Montreal. That would be unheard of.


If that's the case, why did teams move from Winnipeg and Quebec?

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
You don't see the NFL moving to Toronto or Montreal. That would be unheard of.
You don't see the NFL moving to Canada because there wouldn't be a lucrative TV contract in Canada. It's all about money.

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:09 AM
  #31
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all NFL games are nationally televised, no local contracts, so i doubt its money

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:14 AM
  #32
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Oh please. Don't be so paranoid. Can I not create a thread about how hockey is underexposed to Americans? How is it bashing them? I was actually supporting the hockey fans that are in the US. Stop overreacting. Are you telling me 1 out of 5 stations couldn't show this hockey game? I have not said or seen anyone say that Canada owns hockey in this thread, and it seems the people saying it are the ones causing the problem. It isn't about having teams in the States. It is about the NHL being underexposed in the south and maybe, just maybe if they would market it better, they may create more fans for struggling franchises. Just a thought, don't turn this into an "American bashing" thread because that's not what it was meant for. Thanks for your contributions.

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11-23-2003, 11:18 AM
  #33
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Also, if TV contracts couldn't be switched, atleast the NHL could have scheduled it on a different day. It's like they aren't even trying sometimes.

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11-23-2003, 11:20 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
If that's the case, why did teams move from Winnipeg and Quebec?
$$$$$. Plain and simple. Neither of the cities in Canada were willing to front the construction of new arenas so the owners looked south where cities were more than willing to toss atx payer money at the arena issue, as long as a team relocated. Add in the currency difference, the ridiculous tax advantages that sports teams have in the US (it is really criminal) and its very obvious why an owner would want to move his team. Unfortunately the owners never took in consideration the lack of support and the luke warm response the sport would get in the new market. The expectation was to generate the same following they had in their Canadian city, and not be fifth or sixth fiddle in their new home. This is why new owners are a little more careful about moving into non-hockey markets over the past few years.

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:22 AM
  #35
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The "Original Six" consists of four American teams, two Canadian. Therefore, 24 out of 30 isn't a crazy number if you ask me.

I'm Canadian but I wouldn't blame anybody, American, Canadian, or overseas hockey fan, if they were turned off by the game right about now. WHEN PLAYED PROPERLY, hockey's the greatest sport in the world---as Wayne Gretzky loves to say all the time. When it's not however, it loses a lot of lustre.

All 30 current NHL markets could thrive if the game was in better shape but it's not. Tickets are grossly overpriced and players are being paid huge sums of money NOT to score goals. The game has become all about the coaches. It's chess on a frozen pond. It's not the way the game was meant to be played.

We have to get excitement back into your average regular-season NHL game. When you have to take it outdoors just to make the game remotely entertaining, what does that say about the product.

If you can, stick a tape in from the 80's or even the 70's if you want to see hockey the way it was meant to be played. Otherwise, wait until the playoffs because at least there's drama.

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:29 AM
  #36
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What a dumb thread; football is king in the U.S., whereas hockey rules in Canada, just because they show an outdoor game in Edmonton between 2 Canadian teams, is not going to instantly turn a ton of football fans into NHL fans. The heart of the matter is that hockey is nothing but a niche sport here, and without a large tv deal in the US., it always will be.

1. College football
2. NFL/NASCAR
3. MLB
4. NBA
5. NHL

Why not ask why soccer is loved everywhere else but the U.S.?

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:44 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
What a dumb thread; football is king in the U.S., whereas hockey rules in Canada, just because they show an outdoor game in Edmonton between 2 Canadian teams, is not going to instantly turn a ton of football fans into NHL fans. The heart of the matter is that hockey is nothing but a niche sport here, and without a large tv deal in the US., it always will be.

1. College football
2. NFL/NASCAR
3. MLB
4. NBA
5. NHL

Why not ask why soccer is loved everywhere else but the U.S.?
Why do I even try? If the NHL wants to market their 24 teams in the US, why don't they make an attempt to atleast reschedule until football is over. I'm not saying they have to love it, but why not try and get fans in the seats of some of these embarassing team's buildings?

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11-23-2003, 11:45 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
The "Original Six" consists of four American teams, two Canadian. Therefore, 24 out of 30 isn't a crazy number if you ask me.

I'm Canadian but I wouldn't blame anybody, American, Canadian, or overseas hockey fan, if they were turned off by the game right about now. WHEN PLAYED PROPERLY, hockey's the greatest sport in the world---as Wayne Gretzky loves to say all the time. When it's not however, it loses a lot of lustre.

All 30 current NHL markets could thrive if the game was in better shape but it's not. Tickets are grossly overpriced and players are being paid huge sums of money NOT to score goals. The game has become all about the coaches. It's chess on a frozen pond. It's not the way the game was meant to be played.

We have to get excitement back into your average regular-season NHL game. When you have to take it outdoors just to make the game remotely entertaining, what does that say about the product.

If you can, stick a tape in from the 80's or even the 70's if you want to see hockey the way it was meant to be played. Otherwise, wait until the playoffs because at least there's drama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
1. College football
2. NFL/NASCAR
3. MLB
4. NBA
5. NHL
Uhhh, no. NFL is number 1, and NASCAR isn't in the equation. I refuse to say NASCAR is more popular than the NHL. This is coming from a guy who has lived in Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina the past 26 years. I'm not in love with college sports (when you can see pros do it better), and I will never understand NASCAR.

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:46 AM
  #39
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Why is the NHL sinking in the US?

The question pre-supposes that the league was ever fully afloat in this country. Not true.

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:49 AM
  #40
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You can actually ask an interesting reverse question here. Why is it that when this happened for the first time, not a single Canadian network bothered to show more than a few highlights of Michigan vs. Michigan State? You would think that Canada being a hockey country might be at least a bit intersted in the hockey game with the biggest live attendance ever, no?

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Old
11-23-2003, 11:54 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Americans and their college sports
Yea!

I mean it would be really sad if people from Canada paid to see the league where thier future hockey stars are drafted from, or even worse put these games on TV. How silly would that be!

:p

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11-23-2003, 11:59 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You can actually ask an interesting reverse question here. Why is it that when this happened for the first time, not a single Canadian network bothered to show more than a few highlights of Michigan vs. Michigan State? You would think that Canada being a hockey country might be at least a bit intersted in the hockey game with the biggest live attendance ever, no?
Actually I did see some hilights of college football. I think a lot of people watch it in Canada too because there are so many American channels up here. I am more going the route of the NHL doing a poor job of exposing hockey to American hockey fans, whether that be poor scheduling or whatever.

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Old
11-23-2003, 12:03 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
If that's the case, why did teams move from Winnipeg and Quebec?
Because of the falling Canadian dollar at the time, the lack of corporate support for two relatively small cities, they couldn't come up with money to fund new arenas at the time(they were both playing in arenas that had less then 15,000 seats). Numerous financial reasons, but it wasn't for a lack of fan support.

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Old
11-23-2003, 12:04 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
What a dumb thread; football is king in the U.S., whereas hockey rules in Canada, just because they show an outdoor game in Edmonton between 2 Canadian teams, is not going to instantly turn a ton of football fans into NHL fans. The heart of the matter is that hockey is nothing but a niche sport here, and without a large tv deal in the US., it always will be.

1. College football
2. NFL/NASCAR
3. MLB
4. NBA
5. NHL

Why not ask why soccer is loved everywhere else but the U.S.?

The funny thing is that NHL is not #5... Bowling, golf, NCAA basketball and fishing/hunting get better ratings then NHL in the USA...

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Old
11-23-2003, 12:11 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16


Uhhh, no. NFL is number 1, and NASCAR isn't in the equation. I refuse to say NASCAR is more popular than the NHL. This is coming from a guy who has lived in Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina the past 26 years. I'm not in love with college sports (when you can see pros do it better), and I will never understand NASCAR.
I think NASCAR would have to disagree with you: they signed six-year, $2.4-billion deal with Fox, FX, NBC and TNT in 2001.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/29/Sp...s_onto_T.shtml

Compared to the 5 yr, 600 million deal the NHL signed with ABC/ESPN in 1999.

http://www.hockeynut.com/9899/tvoffer0898.html

Also, I can't believe that the Hurricanes or Thrashers would be popular in those areas than NASCAR.

I would have to think that even NCAA football gets a better tv deal than the NHL on ABC/ESPN. Just look at all the money that gets paid out at the bowl games (which heavily favor the big schools though).

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11-23-2003, 12:26 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hawkalyzer
all NFL games are nationally televised, no local contracts, so i doubt its money
National contracts ARE the money. Two billion dollars a year in revenue.

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Old
11-23-2003, 12:44 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyF
The NFL is by far the most boring league to watch... WHOOPI Eagles won 10-8 over Rams... let's eat some chips and drink some bud... horrible.
Like watching the Sens, Devils or Wild win 1-0 or 2-1 in a mid-season game. Zzzzzzzzzzz....

Scoring and fighting are down, interest is down. It's become "Ice Soccer" with huge stretches of the game contested by men grappling at center ice or along the boards and very little of the grace, beauty or violence that mark great games. It's boring.

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11-23-2003, 01:00 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Like watching the Sens, Devils or Wild win 1-0 or 2-1 in a mid-season game. Zzzzzzzzzzz....

Scoring and fighting are down, interest is down. It's become "Ice Soccer" with huge stretches of the game contested by men grappling at center ice or along the boards and very little of the grace, beauty or violence that mark great games. It's boring.
Isn't fighting up this year?

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11-23-2003, 01:04 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by SopelFan
Isn't fighting up this year?
Over the last 10 years, fighting and scoring have steadily declined. While the pure emotion of a hard-fought 1-0 or 2-1 game in the playoffs keeps fans of both teams glued to their seats (and the broadcasters I'm sure hope, to their sets as well), the lack of anything to stir the interest for a majority of games doesn't attract new fans and in some cases even disinterests those with strong hockey roots (see Guy's quote the other day about not watching much hockey as a recent example).

Wayne Gretzky when asked about the Oilers ability to play defense in the playoffs after spending the regular season in run-and-gun mode responded by saying, if I may paraphrase, that defense was boring except in the playoffs. He was talking from the players perspective, but as viewer, it's certainly true.

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11-23-2003, 01:25 PM
  #50
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i'd like to put forth a little bit of insight from an american that has lived in canada for a little while...

To understand why hockey is "sinking" in the US(though the point was made that it was never really 'afloat' to begin with, which i agree with) you have to realize that for a long time, there was simply no exposure to it. Boston, Chicago, New York and Detroit represent a centralized demographic, and hockey had a fair amount of fans in those cities...but it all goes back to upbringing. In those times(and through most of history), kids in the US didn't grow up playing hockey. A small number might have grown up with shinny on grandpa's frozen pond, but due to the natural factor of climate, sports like baseball, basketball and football were far more accessible to the American youth. Why should a young man that grew up playing these sports expound the effort to learn and dedicate himself to a game that he had barely heard of, let alone played? Not to mention the fact that it was the Canadians' game. Little Joey American didn't want to cheer on Jacques de Francais-Canadien. This continued pretty much up until the late 70s\early 80s(and particularly the Miracle on Ice), when hockey caught on in the northern states and high school\recreational leagues were established. In that time, we've seen an emergence of American stars....LaFontaine, Leetch, Modano, Hull(sort of). With that, hockey has caught on little by little. As time goes on, I think that there will be further insurgence of American talent in hockey. The junior teams are getting stronger and stronger, and you're seeing more and more Americans drafted in the high rounds. You must realize that hockey is still in its nascent in the US. I lived in Nashville for 12 years, and saw the youth ice hockey league expand almost eight-fold in that time, with most of the growth coming after the Predators came to town. I can't really agree that hockey is "sinking" in America right now, because I only see growth.
As far as the bash-fest that some of the Canadian posters are making this(excluding whomever necessary), something I noticed while living outside Toronto was that Canadians, en masse, maintain a feeling of mixed pity\jealousy\inferiority to the US. Now..before you jump all over me for saying this, I'm not meaning that to be an offensive statement. Canada is, in my opinion, in many ways the ideal nation...but they've always kind of sat in the shadow of the US in the eyes of the world(which believe me, might be a good thing). It's as Homer Simpson said,

"Why would anyone want to leave America to go to America, junior?"

That "little brother" feeling seems to drive a lot of Canadians crazy. While America has made set the standard through the advances in technology, entertainment, fashion and culture...the one thing that Canadians knew they could always claim superiority in was hockey. It was THEIR game, and they loaned it to a few choice Americans. With the uprise of Americans in the game, I've noted a bit of hostility from some Canadian fans, who, ideally, wouldn't mind seeing ALL the American teams(and hey, why not players?) eradicated from the game, relocated to such deserving cities as not just Winnipeg and Quebec...but Halifax, Hamilton, Saskatoon..and hey, even why not Yellowknife, too? That would be just hunky-dory. Now..again..before I get accused of making blanket statements...that's not my intent. I'm just examining the psychology behind threads\posts like these. I, sadly, believe that a lot of Canadians not only EXPECT hockey to fail in the United States, they HOPE for it. While I do understand this sentiment, I'd just like to remind some of you that while the NUMBER of hockey fans in the US may never even come close to rivaling those in Canada...the passion that the fans feel for our teams(myself included) could probably rival that of the fans of any team in Canada.

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