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Why the NHL is sinking in the US?

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Old
11-23-2003, 01:31 PM
  #51
Blatny Spears
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Who scheduled this game? Did the Oilers specifically request this weekend or was it just the date the NHL gave them? Regardless, if exposure in the U.S. was a consideration at all, the choice of a date was brutal. It wasn't just a college football weekend, it was RIVALRY weekend. Ohio State/Michigan, Auburn/Alabama, USC/UCLA, the list goes on ... Forget it, the Heritage Classic never had a chance on this date.

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11-23-2003, 01:36 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blatny Spears
Who scheduled this game? Did the Oilers specifically request this weekend or was it just the date the NHL gave them? Regardless, if exposure in the U.S. was a consideration at all, the choice of a date was brutal. It wasn't just a college football weekend, it was RIVALRY weekend. Ohio State/Michigan, Auburn/Alabama, USC/UCLA, the list goes on ... Forget it, the Heritage Classic never had a chance on this date.
Agreed. I'm not too sure who scheduled it, but it was poorly scheduled imo. I didn't mean for this to be an American bashing thread. I just think if it was possible to schedule this elsewhere, maybe it could have made a few more fans or atleast exposed people to a very big hockey event. I just feel that had this been televised at one time or another in the US, maybe it would help teams struggling for fanbase.

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11-23-2003, 01:42 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
i'd like to put forth a little bit of insight from an american that has lived in canada for a little while...

To understand why hockey is "sinking" in the US(though the point was made that it was never really 'afloat' to begin with, which i agree with) you have to realize that for a long time, there was simply no exposure to it. Boston, Chicago, New York and Detroit represent a centralized demographic, and hockey had a fair amount of fans in those cities...but it all goes back to upbringing. In those times(and through most of history), kids in the US didn't grow up playing hockey. A small number might have grown up with shinny on grandpa's frozen pond, but due to the natural factor of climate, sports like baseball, basketball and football were far more accessible to the American youth. Why should a young man that grew up playing these sports expound the effort to learn and dedicate himself to a game that he had barely heard of, let alone played? Not to mention the fact that it was the Canadians' game. Little Joey American didn't want to cheer on Jacques de Francais-Canadien. This continued pretty much up until the late 70s\early 80s(and particularly the Miracle on Ice), when hockey caught on in the northern states and high school\recreational leagues were established. In that time, we've seen an emergence of American stars....LaFontaine, Leetch, Modano, Hull(sort of). With that, hockey has caught on little by little. As time goes on, I think that there will be further insurgence of American talent in hockey. The junior teams are getting stronger and stronger, and you're seeing more and more Americans drafted in the high rounds. You must realize that hockey is still in its nascent in the US. I lived in Nashville for 12 years, and saw the youth ice hockey league expand almost eight-fold in that time, with most of the growth coming after the Predators came to town. I can't really agree that hockey is "sinking" in America right now, because I only see growth.
As far as the bash-fest that some of the Canadian posters are making this(excluding whomever necessary), something I noticed while living outside Toronto was that Canadians, en masse, maintain a feeling of mixed pity\jealousy\inferiority to the US. Now..before you jump all over me for saying this, I'm not meaning that to be an offensive statement. Canada is, in my opinion, in many ways the ideal nation...but they've always kind of sat in the shadow of the US in the eyes of the world(which believe me, might be a good thing). It's as Homer Simpson said,

"Why would anyone want to leave America to go to America, junior?"

That "little brother" feeling seems to drive a lot of Canadians crazy. While America has made set the standard through the advances in technology, entertainment, fashion and culture...the one thing that Canadians knew they could always claim superiority in was hockey. It was THEIR game, and they loaned it to a few choice Americans. With the uprise of Americans in the game, I've noted a bit of hostility from some Canadian fans, who, ideally, wouldn't mind seeing ALL the American teams(and hey, why not players?) eradicated from the game, relocated to such deserving cities as not just Winnipeg and Quebec...but Halifax, Hamilton, Saskatoon..and hey, even why not Yellowknife, too? That would be just hunky-dory. Now..again..before I get accused of making blanket statements...that's not my intent. I'm just examining the psychology behind threads\posts like these. I, sadly, believe that a lot of Canadians not only EXPECT hockey to fail in the United States, they HOPE for it. While I do understand this sentiment, I'd just like to remind some of you that while the NUMBER of hockey fans in the US may never even come close to rivaling those in Canada...the passion that the fans feel for our teams(myself included) could probably rival that of the fans of any team in Canada.
Good post. But my intentions of this thread were not to get into that. Either way, I think Canadians just feel insulted that there are so many people who don't enjoy the same things as Canadians do. I don't really understand it and I for one could care less, where other teams were most of the time. The intent of this thread were to stress the fact that the NHL is poorly marketed in the US at times. I think showing this game, whether yesterday or re-scheduling it to a better day, might have broadened the American fanbase. Although you make a few good points, it was not what I wanted to get into because it is a sensitive issue and before you know it it's a full out country flame war.

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11-23-2003, 01:52 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SopelFan
Good post. But my intentions of this thread were not to get into that. Either way, I think people just feel that people just feel insulted that there are so many people who don't enjoy the same things as Canadians do. I don't really understand it and I for one could care less, where other teams were most of the time. The intent of this thread were to stress the fact that the NHL is poorly marketed in the US at times. I think showing this game, whether yesterday or re-scheduling it to a better day, might have broadened the American fanbase. Although you make a few good points, it was not what I wanted to get into because it is a sensitive issue and before you know it it's a full out country flame war.
The roots of that poor marketing pre-date Bettman with the Zeigler era when the NHL had the opportunity to market Gretzky in the fashion Bettman's NBA was doing with a certain Bull-about-town who was significantly better (or so they said) than players around him. They had the opportunity, and they played small, keeping their game for themselves rather than sharing it with the masses. Think of the possibilities of the late '80's when Gretzky and Lemieux were both at their prime--it takes Bird-vs-Johnson qualities that went missed by whatever myopic minds were marketing the league at that time. *sigh* I'd love for the NHL to be on the radar as the legit 4th sport in the USA---mostly since that would mean more youngsters playing and enjoying the game and therefore a larger talent pool to draw potential NHLers from in the long run. And it appears to still be a regional phenomena though in non-hockey areas there has been progress to making it a more grass-roots interest (the rise of the highschool league in Florida, rinks in Texas--with it's long traditions of minor pro, and even the spread of interest in the Raleigh-Durham region with the erection of new rinks and new leagues and an outright demand for available icetime). Viewers may never put it into the top 4, which begs to reason the increase in payroll is not commensurate with the available market's ability to pay for it thus the losses-and-CBA-fight-to-be, but there might come a day when players from Texas or Florida or the Carolina or California are suiting up in the NHL, or representing their country in the World Cup/World Championships/Olympics with far greater regularity than they are now.

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11-23-2003, 02:06 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
I'd just like to remind some of you that while the NUMBER of hockey fans in the US may never even come close to rivaling those in Canada...the passion that the fans feel for our teams(myself included) could probably rival that of the fans of any team in Canada.
I second that sentiment!

excellent post NMK, hope people will take the time to read it.

---

Sopelfan, now that I look back at your first post with your intent in mind, it makes sense. Seems your thread got hijacked!

To your point, I don't think anyone could argue that the NHL is marketed particularly well in the US, because it's really not. The whole fiasco of what they do with NHL2Nite is a case in point: it's been moved to 1 AM EST, 2 AM, even cancelled altogether or pushed back if something else comes up. Therefore, unless they stay up half the night, casual sports viewers don't even get to see highlights or hockey talk most of the time. That's not "selling the game".

That's only one little thing that's not done well IMO, granted that's ESPN's doing, not the Leagues, but I know it's a sore spot for a lot of US fans. It's an opportunity lost.

I could go on and on with this subject, but don't have time.

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11-23-2003, 02:07 PM
  #56
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IT wasn't the first ever outdoor hockey game, and it didn't even come close to matching the Michigan/Michigan State game 2 seasons ago in attendence.

The NHL is not skinking in the USA. Let's face it, this was nothing more than another Edmonton/Montreal game to everyone not in the Edmonton area, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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11-23-2003, 02:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Because of the falling Canadian dollar at the time, the lack of corporate support for two relatively small cities, they couldn't come up with money to fund new arenas at the time(they were both playing in arenas that had less then 15,000 seats). Numerous financial reasons, but it wasn't for a lack of fan support.

My response is going to be to you and Lanny (since he responded to my post as well). I know the moves were made because of money, U.S. money. That's the crux of why the majority of the teams in the NHL are in the U.S. at this point. It has nothing to do with fanbases or loyalty. I just question how one person (Jason MacIsaac) can be so dense and gloss over that fact.

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11-23-2003, 03:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SopelFan
Today was a prime example. No effort to show the Heritage Classic. 5 Channels chose College Football over a first ever outdoor hockey game and Gretzky's return to the ice. How do they expect to make new fans with this sort of publicity?
There are two different ideas being presented here.

1. Five channels chose college football over the Classic. ESPN is contractually obligated to show college football every weekend of the season. There's no getting around that. But more importantly, ESPN doesn't get any viewership numbers from Canada that count towards its ratings. That's why we see so few Canadian teams in ESPN's hockey coverage: half the audience doesn't count, and the advertisers know it.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't an outcry from American NHL fans about the game not being on cable TV (I watched it on Centre Ice). Rachel Nichols, who was the worst hockey writer at the Washington Post before they gave the Caps beat to Jason LaCanfora, slammed American fans for their "apathy," writing "The fact that ESPN was unwilling to juggle its schedule -- and there was no outcry from the U.S. public about the decision -- underscores the darker side of this weekend's festivities." (Nichols fails to report that she's also employed by ESPN.) There was an outcry, and quite a loud one. But American fans have come to understand our sport's place in an ESPN world. That's why many of us hope the league bolts the network after this deal.

2. How do they expect to make new fans with this sort of publicity? It would have been nice for novice fans to get a chance to tune in, see Gretzky, and watch a game in a very unique environment. But I doubt the game would have hooked anyone new. Although the camera work did inspire me to think that one day they'll be able to convey the thrill of live hockey on TV...

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11-23-2003, 03:25 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinghorse
The funny thing is that NHL is not #5... Bowling, golf, NCAA basketball and fishing/hunting get better ratings then NHL in the USA...
Bowling's ratings are inflated because it's on once a week, and there isn't any geographic dilution of the audience like there is in team sports (NASCAR has the same advatage). NCAA Basketball has a bigger audience than hockey because the sport crosses social and economic boundries the NHL hasn't figured out how to crack. Fishing and hunting does not get better ratings than the NHL, on any network, as far as the numbers I've seen.

And to the poster who claimed NCAA football was the most popular sport in America...I'm going to take a wild guess and say you don't live in the Northeast.

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11-23-2003, 03:29 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
there isn't any geographic dilution of the audience like there is in team sports (NASCAR has the same advatage).
Ah yes, NASCAR is only popular in the south. There couldn't possibly be a huge following in other places, like the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania or Western NY. :

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11-23-2003, 03:34 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
Ah yes, NASCAR is only popular in the south. There couldn't possibly be a huge following in other places, like the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania or Western NY. :
That's not what I wrote.

NASCAR doesn't have its fan base divided by city, like team sports do. If I'm a Jets fan, I'm not watching New Orleans/Atlanta. I just don't care. If I'm a NASCAR fan, I'm watching NASCAR because its NASCAR. If you're a fan of an individual driver, that might play into it. But typically, race fans are watching races, golf fans are watching golf, and bowling fans are watching bowling.

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11-23-2003, 03:35 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
Bowling's ratings are inflated because it's on once a week, and there isn't any geographic dilution of the audience like there is in team sports (NASCAR has the same advatage). NCAA Basketball has a bigger audience than hockey because the sport crosses social and economic boundries the NHL hasn't figured out how to crack. Fishing and hunting does not get better ratings than the NHL, on any network, as far as the numbers I've seen.

And to the poster who claimed NCAA football was the most popular sport in America...I'm going to take a wild guess and say you don't live in the Northeast.
No, but I live the middle of the Big Ten, there aren't many bigger things around here than that, what around 112,000 in Ann Arbor to see OSU-U of M, there were 2 full pages just about the Michigan win in today's sports section, the NFL is a slight back seat and I think the Wings got about half a page, with the other NHL news taking up the other half. The Big East isn't know for their football like other confirences, but football is still probably the biggest no matter where you go, college or NFL. Regardless, still bigger than the NHL by far.

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11-23-2003, 03:37 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
That's not what I wrote.

NASCAR doesn't have its fan base divided by city, like team sports do. If I'm a Jets fan, I'm not watching New Orleans/Atlanta. I just don't care. If I'm a NASCAR fan, I'm watching NASCAR because its NASCAR. If you're a fan of an individual driver, that might play into it. But typically, race fans are watching races, golf fans are watching golf, and bowling fans are watching bowling.

<JESTER>
D-oh, my mistake, now I understand. That is a fair point.

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11-23-2003, 03:38 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
The Big East isn't know for their football like other confirences, but football is still probably the biggest no matter where you go, college or NFL. Regardless, still bigger than the NHL by far.
I'll agree with you on the football thing, although college football rules on a state-by-state basis.

I'll also agree with you on your last statement, unfortunately

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11-23-2003, 03:43 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
That's not what I wrote.

NASCAR doesn't have its fan base divided by city, like team sports do. If I'm a Jets fan, I'm not watching New Orleans/Atlanta. I just don't care. If I'm a NASCAR fan, I'm watching NASCAR because its NASCAR. If you're a fan of an individual driver, that might play into it. But typically, race fans are watching races, golf fans are watching golf, and bowling fans are watching bowling.

<JESTER>
Find me a serious NASCAR fan that doesnt have a favorite driver, please its gunna be awful hard. Your talking about a group of people that for the most part have made brand loyalty a religion. Almost every single one of those people have a guy they want to win on any given sunday. But that is also the biggest advantage they have. Everyone has to watch the same race to watch their man.

Currently the biggest problem with Hockey in the US, is the marketing. Beyond ESPN there is none. And espn does a poor job of it. They spend one year trying to establish "Wednesday night hockey" and once the NBA came calling they ran away from it like a skunk. Hockey has been consistantly been treated like the red headed step child of sports at espn. Its rediculous. Fox sports net can only reach so many people each night. Especially with how poor some of the teams TV contracts are with the bickering between cable providers. There is just no national exposure for the league right now.

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11-23-2003, 03:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 18Sarge
Find me a serious NASCAR fan that doesnt have a favorite driver, please its gunna be awful hard.
You missed the point (as I did the first time around). NASCAR fans don't root for Jeff Gordon because he drives for the home town team, they root for him because they like him.

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11-23-2003, 03:54 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Sarge
Find me a serious NASCAR fan that doesnt have a favorite driver, please its gunna be awful hard. Your talking about a group of people that for the most part have made brand loyalty a religion. Almost every single one of those people have a guy they want to win on any given sunday. But that is also the biggest advantage they have. Everyone has to watch the same race to watch their man.
I agree, but find me a serious NASCAR fan that won't watch a race because their guy isn't in it. I haven't met one, and I've been down to Richmond more than a few times.

Quote:
Currently the biggest problem with Hockey in the US, is the marketing. Beyond ESPN there is none. And espn does a poor job of it. They spend one year trying to establish "Wednesday night hockey" and once the NBA came calling they ran away from it like a skunk. Hockey has been consistantly been treated like the red headed step child of sports at espn. Its rediculous. Fox sports net can only reach so many people each night. Especially with how poor some of the teams TV contracts are with the bickering between cable providers. There is just no national exposure for the league right now
There is plenty of national exposure for the league, and the NHL is doing quite well in about 75% of its cities. But ratings and some places that don't draw get all the ink from a Mainstream Sports Media that seems determined to drive the sport out of the United States.

The real issue is Bettman. Here's a man who has tried to push this league into the spotlight rather than growing its popularity first. And when hockey doesn't the ratings, doesn't get the attention, it all comes back to Bettman, who has *******ized the game and all but eliminated one of its most marketable aspects (fighting). Are any of the league's young stars even promoted? Is Bettman still looking to push Mario when 66 gets healthy again? What happens if Ottawa and Vancouver make the SCF?

<JESTER>

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11-23-2003, 05:07 PM
  #68
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Like in Phoenix and the white out, thats Winnipeg's thing...go get ur own tradition.
First off, we are continuing the tradition, bub. We're honoring the Jets' history by continuing the White Out. If you have a problem with that, maybe you should get Winnipeg back..

Second, don't post again before you work on your English.

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11-23-2003, 05:50 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
"Why would anyone want to leave America to go to America, junior?"

That "little brother" feeling seems to drive a lot of Canadians crazy. While America has made set the standard through the advances in technology, entertainment, fashion and culture...the one thing that Canadians knew they could always claim superiority in was hockey.
Sweet ignorance.

Since 1990 the UNITED NATIONS has been ranking the most desirable countries in the world in which to live. Canada has ranked number one on the human development composite index no fewer than eight times. This means that in terms of education, standard of living, life expectancy, unemployment, crime rates etc. Canada consistently ranks among the world's leading nations. Outside of the United States, we are clearly considered to be more than a nation of hockey lovers (although we are indeed that). I guess it should come as no surprise that in the the United States Homer Simpson carries more weight than the United Nations.

While we are on the topics of media and America's great advances, here's something to chew on. In 2001 Secretary of State (General) Colin Powell urged the media to tell stories that would encourage Americans to support a foreign policy that "has us engaged" in the world. Also in 2001 Bush named Michael Powell (now, who could he be related to?) chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (the FCC) -America's broadcast regulator.

Okay, "Big Brother," (hey, that's appropriate) keep setting the standard for the rest of us. Good Lord. Like most Canadians, and indeed like most citizens of the world, I look at American society as becoming increasingly comical and even pathetic (and our collective superiority is far from being a complex). You are controlled by a government and by a media. So long as you people know what the president's favourite snack is, you can dress your 6-year-old daughters up like Madonna for the local kiddie talent show and then go home to cheer on your favourite college team.

I'm glad hockey is not catching on in a lot of US markets. They've got their own things to see and do. Surprise, surprise, though, they want to capitalize on something that doesn't belong to them. Stop seeing dollar signs everywhere and let another country, which values things beyond money and is internationally recognized for it, enjoy its national pastime. Imagine if governments in America were to spend tax dollars on hospitals, education, promoting equality etc. instead of building big new arenas to compete in the hockey "market." While you are at it, imagine laying off poorer countries who have things that you want -like oil- but have very little means to defend themselves (Oh but you are there (illegally) to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction, aren't you?). Just imagine enjoying what you have while others do the same.

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11-23-2003, 05:58 PM
  #70
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Hockey's never been a big sport in the US. It's very popular in many regions, but it really doesn't have a national following.

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11-23-2003, 06:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Stephen
Hockey's never been a big sport in the US. It's very popular in many regions, but it really doesn't have a national following.

Fair enough, but why is this such a hard concept for many on this this board to accept? Hockey will always be a "fringe" sport in this country, and really, I don't see a problem with that.

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11-23-2003, 06:20 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepchew
Sweet ignorance.

Since 1990 the UNITED NATIONS has been ranking the most desirable countries in the world in which to live. Canada has ranked number one on the human development composite index no fewer than eight times. This means that in terms of education, standard of living, life expectancy, unemployment, crime rates etc. Canada consistently ranks among the world's leading nations. Outside of the United States, we are clearly considered to be more than a nation of hockey lovers (although we are indeed that). I guess it should come as no surprise that in the the United States Homer Simpson carries more weight than the United Nations.

While we are on the topics of media and America's great advances, here's something to chew on. In 2001 Secretary of State (General) Colin Powell urged the media to tell stories that would encourage Americans to support a foreign policy that "has us engaged" in the world. Also in 2001 Bush named Michael Powell (now, who could he be related to?) chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (the FCC) -America's broadcast regulator.

Okay, "Big Brother," (hey, that's appropriate) keep setting the standard for the rest of us. Good Lord. Like most Canadians, and indeed like most citizens of the world, I look at American society as becoming increasingly comical and even pathetic (and our collective superiority is far from being a complex). You are controlled by a government and by a media. So long as you people know what the president's favourite snack is, you can dress your 6-year-old daughters up like Madonna for the local kiddie talent show and then go home to cheer on your favourite college team.

I'm glad hockey is not catching on in a lot of US markets. They've got their own things to see and do. Surprise, surprise, though, they want to capitalize on something that doesn't belong to them. Stop seeing dollar signs everywhere and let another country, which values things beyond money and is internationally recognized for it, enjoy its national pastime. Imagine if governments in America were to spend tax dollars on hospitals, education, promoting equality etc. instead of building big new arenas to compete in the hockey "market." While you are at it, imagine laying off poorer countries who have things that you want -like oil- but have very little means to defend themselves (Oh but you are there (illegally) to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction, aren't you?). Just imagine enjoying what you have while others do the same.


I'm not sure what your point is. The United States is also well represented on those lists, while supporting a population that is 10x that of Canada. As for how many in the U.S. view Canada, don't flatter yourself, I don't think Canada enters into American consciousness at all.

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11-23-2003, 06:38 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepchew
Sweet ignorance.

Since 1990 the UNITED NATIONS has been ranking the most desirable countries in the world in which to live. Canada has ranked number one on the human development composite index no fewer than eight times. This means that in terms of education, standard of living, life expectancy, unemployment, crime rates etc. Canada consistently ranks among the world's leading nations. Outside of the United States, we are clearly considered to be more than a nation of hockey lovers (although we are indeed that). I guess it should come as no surprise that in the the United States Homer Simpson carries more weight than the United Nations.

While we are on the topics of media and America's great advances, here's something to chew on. In 2001 Secretary of State (General) Colin Powell urged the media to tell stories that would encourage Americans to support a foreign policy that "has us engaged" in the world. Also in 2001 Bush named Michael Powell (now, who could he be related to?) chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (the FCC) -America's broadcast regulator.

Okay, "Big Brother," (hey, that's appropriate) keep setting the standard for the rest of us. Good Lord. Like most Canadians, and indeed like most citizens of the world, I look at American society as becoming increasingly comical and even pathetic (and our collective superiority is far from being a complex). You are controlled by a government and by a media. So long as you people know what the president's favourite snack is, you can dress your 6-year-old daughters up like Madonna for the local kiddie talent show and then go home to cheer on your favourite college team.

I'm glad hockey is not catching on in a lot of US markets. They've got their own things to see and do. Surprise, surprise, though, they want to capitalize on something that doesn't belong to them. Stop seeing dollar signs everywhere and let another country, which values things beyond money and is internationally recognized for it, enjoy its national pastime. Imagine if governments in America were to spend tax dollars on hospitals, education, promoting equality etc. instead of building big new arenas to compete in the hockey "market." While you are at it, imagine laying off poorer countries who have things that you want -like oil- but have very little means to defend themselves (Oh but you are there (illegally) to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction, aren't you?). Just imagine enjoying what you have while others do the same.
http://www.americandaily.com/item/110

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Old
11-23-2003, 06:43 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Fair enough, but why is this such a hard concept for many on this this board to accept? Hockey will always be a "fringe" sport in this country, and really, I don't see a problem with that.
I don't accept it because, if you haven't noticed, media exposure has boomed from 10 years ago. With a slew of sports dedicated networks, 24-hour sports news stations, and the explosion of internet media a buzz of interest need to match this explosion. I think the game was looking good in the US the first couple of years when Bettman came aboard, but with all the rule changes & poor marketing the game is suffering in the US.

Another thing that hurts the NHL is one important factor: the players seem to have no charisma. Everyone knows who the most outspoken players are; that's Hull & Roenick. Every time I see other hockey players speak, they give you pre-frabricated answers every time.

So, there are plenty things hurting the NHL but these are some of the same things that have always hurt the NHL, especially pre-Bettman. I don't think the league will ever spin out of it because of the backwards thinking of most people in hockey. This thinking seems to go from hockey generation to hockey generation. There is nothing anyone can do about it.

And now, to the inflamatory remark: Hail Canada! You guys cry waaaaaaaaaay more about Bettman than you did infamous characters like Ziegler, Eagleson, and Ballard combined.

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11-23-2003, 06:45 PM
  #75
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haha, silly, silly boy.

read my post again. i think you skimmed it and picked out the things that you, as the self-righteous canadian, could take offense to. i made it clear that these weren't necessarily my views, but rather..observations of collective canadians...that i made while LIVING there. it wasn't a nationalistic, pro-american tirade. i was merely offering my take on the differences in the countries and why hockey is more important to canadians than americans.
i think you need to calm down, since it's obvious you're the one with resentment\animosity aimed at one of the countries. personally, i love canada. it's a beautiful country, the people are nice, and it gave me my favorite game. i also happen to love my own country, despite what the rest of the world thinks of it.

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