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Why the NHL is sinking in the US?

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Old
11-23-2003, 05:47 PM
  #76
syc
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Maybe if Canadians werent so nationalistic about Hockey there would be more fans in the US. So many Canadians have the attitude that Hockey belongs to them, and all the Americans, Russians, Czechs, etc out there who play the game are somehow unworthy or are stealing it.
Hockey belongs to Canada and Russia. The rest of you are just along for the ride.

Most Americans don't care and don't like hockey. I have lots of family in the US and from what they tell me the NHL could fold and people wouldn't make a stink.

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11-23-2003, 05:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by WHurricane16
Another thing that hurts the NHL is one important factor: the players seem to have no charisma. Everyone knows who the most outspoken players are; that's Hull & Roenick. Every time I see other hockey players speak, they give you pre-frabricated answers every time.
And the sad thing is, these message boards are full of people who whine and moan every time a player has the balls not to give the pre-fabricated answers.

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11-23-2003, 05:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by syc


Hockey belongs to Canada and Russia. The rest of you are just along for the ride.



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Old
11-23-2003, 05:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WHurricane16
I don't accept it because, if you haven't noticed, media exposure has boomed from 10 years ago. With a slew of sports dedicated networks, 24-hour sports news stations, and the explosion of internet media a buzz of interest need to match this explosion. I think the game was looking good in the US the first couple of years when Bettman came aboard, but with all the rule changes & poor marketing the game is suffering in the US.

Another thing that hurts the NHL is one important factor: the players seem to have no charisma. Everyone knows who the most outspoken players are; that's Hull & Roenick. Every time I see other hockey players speak, they give you pre-frabricated answers every time.

So, there are plenty things hurting the NHL but these are some of the same things that have always hurt the NHL, especially pre-Bettman. I don't think the league will ever spin out of it because of the backwards thinking of most people in hockey. This thinking seems to go from hockey generation to hockey generation. There is nothing anyone can do about it.

And now, to the inflamatory remark: Hail Canada! You guys cry waaaaaaaaaay more about Bettman than you did infamous characters like Ziegler, Eagleson, and Ballard combined.
Does it really matter how much media exposure hockey gets in the US if a lot of people can't afford/have the time to buy their kid's equipment or drive them around in travel leagues? That's what will bring the longest lasting support for hockey, ESPN could promote the game to death, but the league needs a way to reach inner-city/poorer kids. You can go to a inner-city HS, and they'll have football, baseketball, and baseball, because the equipment is a lot cheaper and you don't need to rent ice time. Part of the problem with hockey in the US is simple economics, it will always be a rich kids sport here, not all parents can make the sacrifices for their kid to play hockey. It the same reason soccer and basketball are so popular, you don't need much, a ball and some objects to act as markers, the equipment expenditure is something any community can afford. The NHL needs ways to build a foundation, then the acceptance to the game will grow and the advertisers will follow.

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11-23-2003, 06:07 PM
  #80
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This game wasn't planned this week.
And the contracts that ESPN has with the SCC and other football conferences weren't just signed this year.

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Old
11-23-2003, 06:20 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by guinness
Wow.. what an extremely objective link you provided...
Maybe next time, you might want to quote Rush "where are my pills" Limbaugh

My favorite was the booing of the National anthems.. done once up here, but many, many, many times down in the US.. Also check out the "Liberal Bias" link on the site for more objective propoganda.. i mean reading..

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Old
11-23-2003, 06:35 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by guinness
...the league needs a way to reach inner-city/poorer kids. You can go to a inner-city HS, and they'll have football, baseketball, and baseball, because the equipment is a lot cheaper and you don't need to rent ice time. Part of the problem with hockey in the US is simple economics, it will always be a rich kids sport here, not all parents can make the sacrifices for their kid to play hockey.
That "rich kids sport" thing is just crap. Anyone can play with a stick, a ball and a goal. Ever hear of stickball? Well, deck hockey is the new stickball. You don't even need ice.

And since when has there been a parallel between kids playing a sport and then watching it on TV? If that was the case, the WUSA would have never folded and would have been as big as the NFL.

One more thing: the NHL is trying to market the sport to minority fans (or as you call them, "inner-city/poorer" kids. The league has a program in place that promotes hockey in urban areas, and it trots out Willie O'Ree any chance it gets to promote it. But the bottom line remains that minority fans have a hard time relating to a league that only has about a dozen black and latino players. In time, that will change. Right now, it's a huge problem in marketing the sport in the United States.

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Old
11-23-2003, 06:40 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
As for how many in the U.S. view Canada, don't flatter yourself, I don't think Canada enters into American consciousness at all.
Well, to be fair, I don't think the US really thinks about anybody but itself and 'Bennifer' anyway, so I wouldn't use that country's interests as a barometer for anything.

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11-23-2003, 06:55 PM
  #84
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How ****ing pathetic this board can get. A simple question turns into a Canada-America battle. Ridiculous.

American television is retarded. Luckily I live in Buffalo where about 95% of Sabres games are televised locally and I can watch CBC too, thank God. ESPN sucks, ABC sucks, Fox sucks. To play tennis over hockey is a joke.

But you gotta understand that there are so many more people in the US than in Canada and a lot of them live in the south where stupid **** like car racing and college football is popular. Hockey is way more popular in the Northern states and cities like Detroit, Buffalo, Boston and the entire state of Minnesota. I wish hockey would be more televised in the US. But for Canadiens to rip on Americans and make it seem like we have no fans of hockey is completely unfair and childish. Grow the **** up guys.

 
Old
11-23-2003, 07:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Stephen
Well, to be fair, I don't think the US really thinks about anybody but itself and 'Bennifer' anyway, so I wouldn't use that country's interests as a barometer for anything.
Right. Don't be pissed just because the only people of any influence from Canada are Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne. It's not my fault we actually have popular people who get noticed.

 
Old
11-23-2003, 07:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Fair enough, but why is this such a hard concept for many on this this board to accept? Hockey will always be a "fringe" sport in this country, and really, I don't see a problem with that.
I don't have a problem with it. But the NHL is losing money every year because teams can't fill their buildings... so it IS a problem.

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11-23-2003, 07:10 PM
  #87
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Sweet ignorance.

Since 1990 the UNITED NATIONS has been ranking the most desirable countries in the world in which to live. Canada has ranked number one on the human development composite index no fewer than eight times. This means that in terms of education, standard of living, life expectancy, unemployment, crime rates etc. Canada consistently ranks among the world's leading nations. Outside of the United States, we are clearly considered to be more than a nation of hockey lovers (although we are indeed that). I guess it should come as no surprise that in the the United States Homer Simpson carries more weight than the United Nations.

While we are on the topics of media and America's great advances, here's something to chew on. In 2001 Secretary of State (General) Colin Powell urged the media to tell stories that would encourage Americans to support a foreign policy that "has us engaged" in the world. Also in 2001 Bush named Michael Powell (now, who could he be related to?) chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (the FCC) -America's broadcast regulator.

Okay, "Big Brother," (hey, that's appropriate) keep setting the standard for the rest of us. Good Lord. Like most Canadians, and indeed like most citizens of the world, I look at American society as becoming increasingly comical and even pathetic (and our collective superiority is far from being a complex). You are controlled by a government and by a media. So long as you people know what the president's favourite snack is, you can dress your 6-year-old daughters up like Madonna for the local kiddie talent show and then go home to cheer on your favourite college team.

I'm glad hockey is not catching on in a lot of US markets. They've got their own things to see and do. Surprise, surprise, though, they want to capitalize on something that doesn't belong to them. Stop seeing dollar signs everywhere and let another country, which values things beyond money and is internationally recognized for it, enjoy its national pastime. Imagine if governments in America were to spend tax dollars on hospitals, education, promoting equality etc. instead of building big new arenas to compete in the hockey "market." While you are at it, imagine laying off poorer countries who have things that you want -like oil- but have very little means to defend themselves (Oh but you are there (illegally) to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction, aren't you?). Just imagine enjoying what you have while others do the same.
Probably the most pathetic post I have ever seen. It reeks of jealousy and hate.

Your comment about dressing up our six year olds like Madonna, etc. is probably the most ridiculously immature comment i've ever heard here. You guys depend on us so much in terms of your economy it's not even funny. Why don't we just go ahead and stop trade with you guys? Let's see how well your country does then. Absolutely ridiculous that when anyone says anything about the only thing that matters to Canadiens (hockey), they go off on an anti-american tyrade. As much as I love most Canadiens, the few who rip on America need a lesson. And need to grow up. Nobody ever remembers Canada for anything in history except inventing hockey. That's it. So go ahead and rip on us. At least people know who we are and we aren't just known as "that country north of the US."

 
Old
11-23-2003, 07:10 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by KillToronto
Right. Don't be pissed just because the only people of any influence from Canada are Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne. It's not my fault we actually have popular people who get noticed.
Stop trying to ruin this thread. I mention a country and you get all sensitive and bam, flame war.

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11-23-2003, 07:15 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SopelFan
Stop trying to ruin this thread. I mention a country and you get all sensitive and bam, flame war.
I am ruining this thread? Please. You're the one who started this thread and you knew full-well what it was going to turn into.

You know the answer to your poorly written question. Some Americans love hockey. I am one of them. I know tons and tons of kids that watch every hockey game on TV and watch HNIC every weekend. Hockey is big in patches of the US. But the country is too big and too populated to catch every single one of the 200 and some-odd million peoples' attentions. Lots of Americans are obsessed with hockey, but lot's aren't exposed to it enough to know much about it. There's your answer.

 
Old
11-23-2003, 07:17 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by KillToronto
Probably the most pathetic post I have ever seen. It reeks of jealousy and hate.

Your comment about dressing up our six year olds like Madonna, etc. is probably the most ridiculously immature comment i've ever heard here. You guys depend on us so much in terms of your economy it's not even funny. Why don't we just go ahead and stop trade with you guys? Let's see how well your country does then. Absolutely ridiculous that when anyone says anything about the only thing that matters to Canadiens (hockey), they go off on an anti-american tyrade. As much as I love most Canadiens, the few who rip on America need a lesson. And need to grow up. Nobody ever remembers Canada for anything in history except inventing hockey. That's it. So go ahead and rip on us. At least people know who we are and we aren't just known as "that country north of the US."

the funny thing is, his america-fueled animus was supposedly a rebuttal to my post...which i had intended as something that concurrently stood up for canadians who were embittered toward us for our negligience...while also defending the USA's hockey fans. somehow, he interpreted it to be a "AmEr1Ca RuLz, CaNaDa SuX0rz!" type of slant. my guess is he just skimmed it..but...such is life, i suppose.

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11-23-2003, 07:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by nomorekids
"AmEr1Ca RuLz, CaNaDa SuX0rz!"
SuX0rz?

Do you mean "sucks" or "suckers?" Wow.

 
Old
11-23-2003, 07:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by KillToronto
SuX0rz?

Do you mean "sucks" or "suckers?" Wow.
Its internet Slang for "sucks"...

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11-23-2003, 07:44 PM
  #93
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siiigh.

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11-23-2003, 07:51 PM
  #94
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11-23-2003, 09:07 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by KillToronto
I am ruining this thread? Please. You're the one who started this thread and you knew full-well what it was going to turn into.
No actually I didn't want this to be a country bash fest. Just cuz you and a few other posters can't help but make this a Canada vs US debate doesn't mean I wanted it that way. Yes, not just you but you are one of the posters who is sabotaging a thread for nationalistic reasons.

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11-24-2003, 12:48 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WHurricane16
Another thing that hurts the NHL is one important factor: the players seem to have no charisma. Everyone knows who the most outspoken players are; that's Hull & Roenick. Every time I see other hockey players speak, they give you pre-frabricated answers every time.
you call it no charisma. I call it class. And respect. Count how often an NHLer thanks the announcer at the end of an interview. Then count how often an NBA or NFL player does. Likewise, count how often the NBA or NFL player actually looks at the person he is talking to, vs, an NHLer.

May be just a generational thing. And perhaps today's kids love theatrics by players after they make routine plays like gaining a first-down or screaming after a slam dunk (yawn). That's charisma?

A large part of the attraction of the NHL is the genuine modesty of the players. Don't get me wrong. Roenick and Hull are good for the league as well. and neither are reprobates; they simply speak their mind.

But I'm reminded of Brendan Shanahan's reply on the ice, moments after the Wings won the Cup in '97, when asked how it felt.

"I'm humbled," he said. That's charisma in my book.

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Old
11-24-2003, 04:06 AM
  #97
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I don't have a problem with it. But the NHL is losing money every year because teams can't fill their buildings... so it IS a problem.


No, the NHL is losing money because it's salary structure is OUT OF WHACK, and as a gate driven league it's bleeding to death. Get the salaries down, make the league more affordable, and attendance, and finances would be less of an issue. Turst me, attendance isn't suffering in cities like Boston and Chicago because of flighty hockey fans. There is alot more to it than that.

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11-24-2003, 06:22 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Epsilon
You can actually ask an interesting reverse question here. Why is it that when this happened for the first time, not a single Canadian network bothered to show more than a few highlights of Michigan vs. Michigan State? You would think that Canada being a hockey country might be at least a bit intersted in the hockey game with the biggest live attendance ever, no?
The game was shown live and in its entirety on either the Score or Sportsnet (don't remember which). I remember it was the first time I got to see Komisarek and Ryan Miller play.

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11-24-2003, 06:39 AM
  #99
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The game was shown live and in its entirety on either the Score or Sportsnet (don't remember which). I remember it was the first time I got to see Komisarek and Ryan Miller play.
Are you sure it was on one of the national broadcasts? Because I had both channels and don't remember it being on, and I did look for it. Maybe SNET had it and didn't carry it out west. I did catch a replay of it after the fact though.

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11-24-2003, 06:41 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Trottier
you call it no charisma. I call it class. And respect. Count how often an NHLer thanks the announcer at the end of an interview. Then count how often an NBA or NFL player does. Likewise, count how often the NBA or NFL player actually looks at the person he is talking to, vs, an NHLer.

May be just a generational thing. And perhaps today's kids love theatrics by players after they make routine plays like gaining a first-down or screaming after a slam dunk (yawn). That's charisma?

A large part of the attraction of the NHL is the genuine modesty of the players. Don't get me wrong. Roenick and Hull are good for the league as well. and neither are reprobates; they simply speak their mind.

But I'm reminded of Brendan Shanahan's reply on the ice, moments after the Wings won the Cup in '97, when asked how it felt.

"I'm humbled," he said. That's charisma in my book.
Of course, if we are talking about class and respect, NFL and NBA players have enough of it for each other to gather together on the field after the game, shake hands, and congratulate the other team. Can't say the same for NHL and MLB players.

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