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Scott Stevens - One last shot at a Norris trophy?

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11-23-2003, 06:23 AM
  #1
Blackjack
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Scott Stevens - One last shot at a Norris trophy?

http://nypost.com/sports/devils/4251.htm

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After all those years of being denied the Norris Trophy, Scott Stevens is grabbing one last chance. He becomes the NHL's all-time defenseman in games played this week and he's doing it in style, arguably the NHL's best blueliner so far this year.
Quote:
... breaking Larry Murphy's record for games played by a defenseman... ranks 10th all-time among defensemen with 904 points, only 11 behind Bobby Orr... Stevens will tie Murphy for fourth place on the all-time games played Tuesday in Los Angeles. Gordie Howe (1,767), Mark Messier (1,698) and Ron Francis (1,671) are the three leaders, all forwards...
Quote:
There isn't anyone playing better defense right now
Quote:
Scott can throw immediate fear into opponents, the way he plays, his strength," Burns said. "When all is said and done, we'll say, 'Will there ever be a gladiator like him?'
Last year the 2nd biggest individual injustice against the Devils was righted when Marty took home the Vezina, could it finally be time for Stevens to stand up and be recognized? He's hitting two very signifigant milestones this year, breaking the record for games played by a defenseman and scoring more points than Bobby Orr himself. What an amzing season it would be if The Devils win one last cup for Scotty and he takes home the Norris. He would have

- 4 Cups as captain
- 1 Conn Smythe
- 1 Norris
- Countless All-Star selections

IMO he is on the same level as Orr, Borque, Robinson and the others. Getting these two things in his last year would force him to be recognized as such. And what does it say about The Devils blueline when his stiffist competition is coming from Scotty Niedermayer, and neither Niedermayer nor Stevens have more points than Rafalski?

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11-23-2003, 08:01 AM
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Orr = best player ever

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11-23-2003, 10:31 AM
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Another interesting note in Scott's career accomplishments (thanks to TSN):

He is within two games of accomplishing something no NHL player has ever accomplished - playing on a winning team for 1000 NHL games. Combined regular-season and postseason, he has been on the ice for 998 wins (as of Elias' Friday-night OT goal).


Incidentally, it is quite a race, as Mark Messier is at 997 headed into today's game.

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11-23-2003, 06:09 PM
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I love Scott Stevens, but he has nothing to do with Orr or Bourque or even Denis Potvin. He just is not in their league. I didn't see Harvey or Shore or Kelly, so I can't compare. Stevens is definitely an all-timer, just don't know how high on the list he should be. Was Larry Robinson better? Possibly. Borje Salming? Maybe.

BTW, Larry Brooks mentioned that Scott Niedermayer is the best all-around player in the NHL. Who clued him in?

I know Rafalski has more points, and is a helluva defenseman, but he is not as important to the team as the Captain and Nieder. But he isn't far behind either! Brian Rafalski is Reijo Ruotsalainen with a brain.

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11-23-2003, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Don't put Stevens and Orr in the same breath......ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildan
Orr = best player ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niedermayer27
I love Scott Stevens, but he has nothing to do with Orr or Bourque or even Denis Potvin. He just is not in their league. I didn't see Harvey or Shore or Kelly, so I can't compare. Stevens is definitely an all-timer, just don't know how high on the list he should be. Was Larry Robinson better? Possibly. Borje Salming? Maybe.
That's fine. It's just my opinion. Don't worry, I won't give you guys a lot of headaches by brining that opinion to any of the other boards (like Habs fans would do)

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11-24-2003, 04:44 AM
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JimEIV
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Personally don't see how a guy that only played 8 season can be the best player ever........whether it be Jim Brown or Bobby Orr.

If your knees can't hold up you are flawed. Hence not the best. Just my personaly opinion.

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11-24-2003, 05:21 AM
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The NY Post is a fun read on Sundays...This article that called for Stevens to win the Norris was on one page written by Everson...two pages later Larrry brooks said there was no doubt that Nieds should win the Norris and that Nieds is the best player in the NHL hands down.

On another note...The NHL made a HUGE error by not showing the Heritage classic on tv in the States...HUGE gaffe in marketing..

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11-24-2003, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
He was the best overall hockey player in history, he was the most dominate in any time, he was the most skilled, he was also a leader. I don't see why he isn't the best ever.

He was the most dominate? Personally I think Gretzky was far more dominate.

The things Gretzky did, will never be reproduced. Most of Orr's records are gone and were gone in less than 10-15 years by Potvin and Coffey. Do you forsee Gretzky's point, assist or goal records being overtaken in your lifetime? Heck do you forsee anyone ever having a 200 point season? No one has ever done it Wayne did it 4 times and 3 years in a row.

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11-24-2003, 07:39 AM
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As great as Orr was, there is no way he would have put up anywhere close to the same numbers today as he did back then with teams paying closer attention to good D.

 
Old
11-24-2003, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Last year the 2nd biggest individual injustice against the Devils was righted when Marty took home the Vezina, could it finally be time for Stevens to stand up and be recognized? He's hitting two very signifigant milestones this year, breaking the record for games played by a defenseman and scoring more points than Bobby Orr himself. What an amzing season it would be if The Devils win one last cup for Scotty and he takes home the Norris. He would have

- 4 Cups as captain
- 1 Conn Smythe
- 1 Norris
- Countless All-Star selections

IMO he is on the same level as Orr, Borque, Robinson and the others. Getting these two things in his last year would force him to be recognized as such.
If his play *this year* warrants it, I hope he gets it. Otherwise, I don't want to see him win a "lifetime achievement" Norris. Brad Park didn't win a Norris and most don't think any lesser of him for it. Stevens is a first-ballot HOFer and doesn't need a Norris trophy to validate his selection.

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11-24-2003, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveiglar
If his play *this year* warrants it, I hope he gets it. Otherwise, I don't want to see him win a "lifetime achievement" Norris. Brad Park didn't win a Norris and most don't think any lesser of him for it. Stevens is a first-ballot HOFer and doesn't need a Norris trophy to validate his selection.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to read a ton of "Stevens didn't deserve the Norris trophy" (kind of like the "Brodeur didn't deserve the Vezina trophy" last year and a bit this year already).

Personal goals are nice, but it's all about the Stanley Cup. I still laugh at some Montreal fans saying Theodore would rather have the Hart & Vezina trophy in said of the Stanley Cup.

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11-24-2003, 01:15 PM
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Niedermayer21
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Gretzky played in the "Wild West" when no defense was played. Mario scored 199 points one year. Wayne had over 200 four times. Both Mario and Wayne were amazing. Had Orr played forward on Edmonton in the early 1980s, he may have scored close to 300 pts in a season.

That is how good he was. Not to take anything away from Wayne or Mario, or any of the other all-timers.

Gale Sayers only played 68 games, but was an amazing player. No one ever ran the ball like him. Could cut on a dime at full speed. Better than Barry Sanders. Could break one at any time.

Sandy Koufax only had those 5 great years. His early career was unremarkable. Warren Spahn, who just passed away today, had a great career. Played a long, long time. Had over 300 wins but never had seasons like Koufax.

Jim Brown never missed a game, or a play! He just decided to retire early after ten years in the league.

Something to be said for longevity, but a lot of great talents, in all fields of endeavor, sometimes burn bright for just a short time. And usually that is enough. For Orr, it was enough. He was the best. Not an opinion but a fact.

Hey, just get the video "The Best of Bobby Orr." A video speaks a thousand words.

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11-25-2003, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niedermayer27
Gretzky played in the "Wild West" when no defense was played. Mario scored 199 points one year. Wayne had over 200 four times. Both Mario and Wayne were amazing. Had Orr played forward on Edmonton in the early 1980s, he may have scored close to 300 pts in a season.
Had Orr been on those Oilers teams instead of Coffey he would have put up huge numbers, but he wasn't going to put up 300 points.

He likely would have picked up an extra 25 points a year, not an extra 180 points a year.

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11-25-2003, 06:32 AM
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"Wild West"?


The early 70's Bruins were the high flying team of the decade putting up numbers no one ever heard of before.

Esposito's 76 goals was phenominal, Ken Hodge, Bucyk were 50 goal scores. Sanderson, Stanfield and Cashman were solid 20+ guys.


Nobody ever scored goals like Espo did(up to that point) with 76, 66, 55, 68 and 61 goals seasons from 1970 to 1975. There were some good teams putting up good numbers in the 70's but nothing like Espo was.

To a lessor extent, they were very comparible to the Oilers for their time.

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11-26-2003, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
"Wild West"?


The early 70's Bruins were the high flying team of the decade putting up numbers no one ever heard of before.

Esposito's 76 goals was phenominal, Ken Hodge, Bucyk were 50 goal scores. Sanderson, Stanfield and Cashman were solid 20+ guys.


Nobody ever scored goals like Espo did(up to that point) with 76, 66, 55, 68 and 61 goals seasons from 1970 to 1975. There were some good teams putting up good numbers in the 70's but nothing like Espo was.

To a lessor extent, they were very comparible to the Oilers for their time.

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11-26-2003, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 10.16.1974
What is so funny? I agree with that statement.

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11-26-2003, 09:17 AM
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JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
What is so funny? I agree with that statement.

He is just a frustrated mutant.


10.16.1974,

Stay off of this board Daffy.

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11-26-2003, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Don't put Stevens and Orr in the same breath......ever
Funny how you don't like it, but some paid EXPERTS don't have a problem with it. I'm not saying these guys are the best hockey gurus in the business, but I'll take THEIR opinion over YOURS.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1671933

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11-26-2003, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4check22
Funny how you don't like it, but some paid EXPERTS don't have a problem with it. I'm not saying these guys are the best hockey gurus in the business, but I'll take THEIR opinion over YOURS.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1671933
I think Stevens has been underrated throughout his career, but he isn't in the same league as Orr.

IMO Stevens would be in the 5-8 range of defenseman of the last 30 years or so.

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