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10-24-2006, 07:05 AM
  #1
OReilly24_Thornton19
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my lobby to get Forsberg here

Philly has a new regime... they have a few nice kids to build around but they seem to have some mess on their hands too.

I doubt Forsberg will want to resign there given the way things are shaping up this year and with Carter/Richards on the way, I wonder if Philly would want Forsberg for the future anyhow?

We just invested a huge amount of money in Chara... I dont think we really are planning to win later... I think we want to win now. So the question becomes, could a guy like Forsberg put us over the top if we spent our money on him?

Brad Stuart is a problem for us... if he has a good year hes going to want at least 4 mill a season on his next contract cause anyone close to his talent gets that much. If he has a sucky year he will get booed all year and will be blamed for the Thornton trade and wont want to come back anyhow.

We gave Chara 7.5 mill... he is our number 1. Mara is a hometown boy getting more mins than Stuart and making less money than Stuart will cost on the next contract. He is our defacto number 2 on the depth chart.

Lashoff/Mark Stuart are going to be competing for 3/4 on our depth charts very soon... before the next Brad Stuard contract would end.

I think all this points to Brad Stuart being available in a trade.

Philly needs to add alot of mobility to their blueline... moving Forsberg could help free up contract room for them to give Stuart an extension.

Of course, this would give us a problem at center cause we decided to sign Marc Savard to a 4 year deal. If we have Forsberg we dont need Savard. Philly cant take on Savard's contract unless they get rid of one in return...

My final proposal becomes Stuart/Savard for Forsberg/Hatcher. We take on a little under 2 mill in salary but Hatcher only has 2 years to go after this season and Forsberg is an UFA at the end of the year. Im sure that going into next year Stuart would have a 2 mill a year raise so the contract difference really only applies to this season.

Stuart is the better dman than Hatcher if we wanted a 1/2 guy that we planned to feed PP time too...

Considering that we have alot of kids that need leadership and a winning attitude... I think Hatcher might be the better fit for us. Could you imagine how nasty a pairing of Chara/Hatcher would be to go against in the playoffs?

ouch

and Forsberg when hes healthy is the best player in the game. He makes his linemates better. He would make Kessel better... let Bergeron slip back to second line responsibility. If our new management team has some tact.. they could sweetheart talk Forsberg... tell him to retire here... sign him to a reasonable extension. Let him be our leader for a couple years until Bergeron honestly is ready to take over.

I say make it happen. Im guessing Philly believes they need speed. I think they might very well like Savard as Gagne's center over the next few years. Im sure theyd love Stuart to team with Pitkanen on their blueline.

My thoughts for the day... go Bruins go.

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10-24-2006, 07:16 AM
  #2
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Hatcher being in Philly is already too close to Boston for my liking. He can't be far enough away. -10 through 8 games? Yummy! 3.5M for 3 more years (including this one) is the last contract we should want anywhere near the Bruins. No way, no how I even consider with Hatcher in it.

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10-24-2006, 07:18 AM
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New regime? Stevens has been in the organization over 10 years and Holmgren was Clarke's assistant for 10 years alone. There's no new regime.


And Forsberg has told the team he would like to re-sign, but did not want to do it until after he was sure his ankles would hold up.


Plus he has a no-trade clause.



Nothing wrong with dreaming though. Sometimes they come true.

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10-24-2006, 07:33 AM
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Backin72
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Hatcher is way too slow, NO THANKS!

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10-24-2006, 08:36 AM
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My final proposal becomes Stuart/Savard for Forsberg/Hatcher.
So trade 2 decent players for a diver who spends more time injured than he does skating, and another who's a dinosaur?

No thanks.

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10-24-2006, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atropos View Post
So trade 2 decent players for a diver who spends more time injured than he does skating, and another who's a dinosaur?

No thanks.
Don't think I'd consider Forsberg a diver.
I consider the guy one tough SOB.
Sure he gets injuried, but thats a result of his reckless abandon type of play.

If he wasn't injured so often, and he didn't come too expensively, then sure.
I don't think trading Stuart for him will solve anything, since it would weaken the D too much.

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10-24-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atropos View Post
So trade 2 decent players for a diver who spends more time injured than he does skating, and another who's a dinosaur?

No thanks.


Hahahaha, good one buddy,that same injured player your talking about 1 is not a diver and 2 will bring us more to our team in just 50 games then most would bring us in 82 games!!!

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10-24-2006, 09:03 AM
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I just don't see how bringing in an injury prone forward who is on the downside fits with the long term plan.

Regardless of what we want to think, I doubt that the "plan" was ever to compete for the Cup this year or next.

3 years from now, if the B's aren't legitimately challenging for the cup (provided there are no catastrophic injuries) then I'll be disappointed.

Until then, I'll be happy to watch the progress of the youngsters and see how Chiarelli manages the cap - i.e. moving Murray's $$$.

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10-24-2006, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by OReilly24_Thornton19 View Post
We just invested a huge amount of money in Chara... I dont think we really are planning to win later... I think we want to win now.
I think you want to win now. The Bruins signed Chara for 5 years and Savard for 4. IMO Chiarelli realizes this rebuild will take time and patience. Besides, as complete a player as Forsberg is, just adding him to a team won't guarantee its success.

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10-24-2006, 06:11 PM
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as complete a player as Forsberg is, just adding him to a team won't guarantee its success.
So true and Forsberg is a top 5 player in this league..... when healthy. That would be huge cake for possibly very few games IMO.

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10-24-2006, 06:23 PM
  #11
hdw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backin72 View Post
Hatcher is way too slow, NO THANKS!
"and here comes a gliding outdoor privvy, marginally faster than a hotdog stand"

Forsberg has got an NTC and can sign whereever he wants.

Just why would he sign with Boston?

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10-24-2006, 06:32 PM
  #12
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At this point, I honestly think the only Flyer, over Gagne and Carter, I would want is Sweet Mike Knuble. What does that guy do except score goals?!?!


Last edited by Cristobal: 10-24-2006 at 06:33 PM. Reason: forgot some words
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Old
10-24-2006, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
Just why would he sign with Boston?
I don't know, why did Chara and Savard sign with Boston this summer? I think it's time to stop with the "no free agent would want to come to Boston" attitude.

I'm not saying that I really want Forsberg either. It's just that he seems to be too much of a band-aid right now in his career and isn't worth the risk. If I knew he could be healthy for 70+ games a year, plus playoffs I'd be all for getting him.

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10-24-2006, 08:01 PM
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hdw
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Originally Posted by Bruins4Lifer View Post
I don't know, why did Chara and Savard sign with Boston this summer? I think it's time to stop with the "no free agent would want to come to Boston" attitude.
As you might remember, Chara was offered a 7.5M multiyear contract.
Way above what anyone rated him at.

And I didn't say "no free agent would want to come to Boston".
I said that I couldn't see why Forsberg would sign with Boston.

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10-24-2006, 08:48 PM
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Nothing against PF personally, but I'd rather invest in the future and stockpile as many young players as we can. I do wonder if a miracle happens and the Avs are near a playoff spot this spring, could PF return to Colorado?

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10-24-2006, 09:19 PM
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I love Forsberg, but he's a sneeze away from being Iafrate-redux.

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10-24-2006, 11:40 PM
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im not sure i care if forsberg resigns with us... but im saying its more likely he would if we had a half year to show him we are willing to be a winning organization and treat him with respect and make him love the city and the team.


if forsberg did want to leave as an ufa next year we suddenly have 5.75 mill cap room or whatever to spend on his replacement. A guy like Chris Drury will be an UFA next year. Phil Kessel will have a year experience under his belt and might be able to be a second line center next year. The special K kids will all be another year closer to contributing as top 6 forwards.

If Forsberg did resign we have a bonus on our hands... if not we have capspace.

Savards signing was a mistake I think. Id love to get rid of him and get a chance to spend his salary on a winner like Forsberg/Drury instead.

I wonder what the problem is with analyzing these fantasy trades anyhow? If someone can suggest we'd get more for Savard/Stuart than Forsberg than fine... im open to consider it.

If someone tells me they wish Stuart were resigned and fit into our plans... than yeah I wish that too.

Id rather keep Stuart at an affordable cost than deal him one up for injury prone Forsberg at 5.75 million... i just doubt its possible to keep Stuart at an affordable cost and I do think its possible to deal him for Forsberg the way I see the writing on the walls shaping up.

I think the B's are still searching for a heart transplant. We needed one last year and Chara/Mara/Savard didnt provide it for us.

Chara is a great unique talent but he has no playoff success or history as a leader in his resume.

Mara has been involved in losing cuture his whole career.

Savard was great on crappy teams for the last few years.


Where is our leadership coming from with these new additions???

Forsberg is a former league MVP and has cup wins and olympic medels in his resume. Hatcher also has cup wins and Internation success as part of his deal.

Hatcher is getting a lot of crap reputation for no reason at all IMO. In Dallas on a decent team partnered with a guy who complemented him, Hatcher was generally consided one of the top 30 dmen in hockey. When he became an UFA, Detroit with a reputation of being the smartest operation in hockey went after him bigtime.

He did get hurt... yes...

Detroit couldnt afford to keep him... ok

thats the cap for you...

so Philly jumped on him and Hatcher was pretty good in the regular season for them last year. Philly was a pretty dominant team in the regular season last year.

Once playoffs came around Philly's goaltending just wasnt good enough... guys like Hatcher tried to overcompensate. He didnt look good... ok

but Hatcher is still easily one of the better dman in hockey. If he's penciled in to be our mean SOB 3rd on the depthchart guy for 3.5 mill a year for a couple years... we'd be happy with him.

I bet he'd look just awesome with eithe Chara or Mara. He doesn't need PP time like Stuart does to be happy. He'd complement Chara or Mara rather than compete against them.

Our other dmen are guys like MStuart/Alberts/Jurcina... 3/4/5/6 guys Lashoff might be a top 2 guy but can develop into the role over a couple years while Mara holds the spot down.

We really seam to have made our choice who our 1/2 is once we grabbed Mara and Chara this season. They are good choices too. If we support them right our D is good. There is nothing sad about counting on MStuart/Alberts/Jurcina being part of a decent defense for the next few seasons. Our lower half is well accounted for... our upper half is well accounted for... really for our D, we are looking at an AFFORDABLE SOLID 3 VET GUY WITH LEADERSHIP SKILLS that has a well enough rounded game he can mentor one of the young guys or can step up at playoff time to partner up with a Chara to shutdown enemy offensive units... right?

Hatcher would be ok.

Dinosaur or not.

I think this proposal would be in our better interests reguarless how anything worked out simply because I dont want to build our team around Savard... and I dont think Stuart can/or should be kept at the price he will be able to get.

In another make the best of this case senerial, maybe Forsberg would help Murray score 50 goals and maybe we could deal Murray next offseason even if Forsberg didnt return?

Just a thought... I mean its proven that Forsberg does make his linemates better and is prob ever bit the playmaker Thorton is/was if you look at the facts.

As for Forsbergs NT clause... we all know that NT clauses are only NT clauses if a player insists they are. A team wouldnt hold themselves back from trading a player simply because of a NT clause if the player was willing to move.

Money talks... and so does a chance to win. Boston might have to figure a way to convice Forsberg to come over...

doesnt that happen sometimes though? If we are wanting to be a serious team with a desire to win... grabbing Forsberg would be a great way to get the ball moving... and dumping Savard at the same time would also help IMO.

I do hate to give up Stuart... In retrospect I would have kept Stuart... paid him... and forgot about Chara... but what is done is done... and it probably is ok...

Lets follow the logic and get some winning leadership into town now to go with Chara and the good kids we have here like Bergeron and Boyes and Kessel and the d and Toivonen before everyone gets too expensive.

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Old
10-25-2006, 07:27 AM
  #18
whatsbruin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdw View Post
As you might remember, Chara was offered a 7.5M multiyear contract.
Way above what anyone rated him at.
I think you are mistaken, as well as many other people when they say the same thing about Marty Lapointe.
It appears some people think that the B's offered way more, than other teams,
when they signed Chara and Lapointe.

If I remember correctly, Lapointe had a similar offer from MTL, but chose Boston.
Chara had a similar offer from LA, but chose Boston. The B's did not spend way more than other teams, just to sign either of these players. They offered the market value for them and they got them. whether they were good signings or not is another question.

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10-25-2006, 09:53 AM
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A case against Forsberg

He quit on his team at a crucial point in the game.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/hocke...o_to_shootout/

I dunno about you.....but that's not the kind of "character" I want showing up on the Bruins.

BTW...his excuse was he was having stick trouble.

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10-25-2006, 09:59 AM
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He quit on his team at a crucial point in the game.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/hocke...o_to_shootout/

I dunno about you.....but that's not the kind of "character" I want showing up on the Bruins.

BTW...his excuse was he was having stick trouble.
If a coach calls upon you to shoot in a shootout...you shoot. This really baffles me, especially if Forsberg himself said it was because he was having 'stick troubles'. What exactly does that mean?? One of the comments on sportsnet was that perhaps Forsberg felt there was a player who had a hotter stick or someone else he felt was more worthy of taking the shot, but then if that's the case, perhaps he should have turned down the 'C'. A leader with the skills Forsberg has should not be turning down opportunities to score goals.

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10-25-2006, 10:14 AM
  #21
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Hatcher is still easily one of the better dman in hockey.
Wow - Not many would agree with that.

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10-25-2006, 10:43 AM
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For all of his remarkable talent and grit, the major caveat on Forsberg is the fact that he's always been injury prone, and that seems exceedingly unlikely to change now that he's well into his 30's. Hatcher is likewise well into his 30's, and frankly, I just don't think he has the wheels for the new NHL.

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10-25-2006, 12:37 PM
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If a coach calls upon you to shoot in a shootout...you shoot. This really baffles me, especially if Forsberg himself said it was because he was having 'stick troubles'. What exactly does that mean??
I could see if he had a crack in the blade, but he should have prepared several for the game. Unless he misplaced his "Billy Berule" stick.

I got the sense going into the lockout that Foppa was going to retire from the NHL and play in Sweden. When he signed in Philly I was a bit surprised at first, but it made sense that he (IMO) wanted to play for the team that drafted him, maybe to settle unfinished business. I don't see him being a hired gun for any team around the league, but I'm just speculating.

As for his fit on the team, I'm sure Patrice would be thrilled -- I've heard him say Forsberg is his favorite player. At this point in their careers I think Savard is more committed to winning something because he never has. He's said he really likes Boston -- likes the team and likes playing at the Garden. Like Chiarelli, I want players in Boston who want to play in Boston so instead of chasing Forsberg and trying to make him like us I'd put my faith in the kid who wants to play here enough that he signed for 4 years.

As for Hatcher, he was very effective in the old trap-happy NHL -- it's the era he won his Cup. I don't see him helping Boston in any way. Rembember that we play a lot of games in our own division and we need mobile defensemen, not tough guys who can't skate. How would Hatcher fare against Ottawa (finally showing a pulse), Montreal, Buffalo and Toronto? IMO this is the worst possible division for Hatcher to play.

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10-25-2006, 12:49 PM
  #24
hdw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OV View Post
He quit on his team at a crucial point in the game.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/hocke...o_to_shootout/

I dunno about you.....but that's not the kind of "character" I want showing up on the Bruins.

BTW...his excuse was he was having stick trouble.
This was discussed at the Philly boards.

There where several players who wanted to take a shot and Forsberg didn't feel 100% so he stood back (for some shots, he did take one later).

In a situation where players shy away from taking it then it's the captain's obligation.

To step forward and take it when others, who he regarded had a better chance, wanted would have been leadership.

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10-25-2006, 12:56 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdw View Post
This was discussed at the Philly boards.

There where several players who wanted to take a shot and Forsberg didn't feel 100% so he stood back (for some shots, he did take one later).

In a situation where players shy away from taking it then it's the captain's obligation.

To step forward and take it when others, who he regarded had a better chance, wanted would have been leadership.
woefully disagree. Didn't feel 100% for 30 seconds of time? Isn't this taking a captain's resposibility to the wrong end? He plays a full game, coach asks him to step up and be a leader, and he backs out because HE feels like someone else would be better? Not his job.
I'm guessing if he wasn't feeling 100% his coach would've known it before he asked him to take the shot.
Poor excuse I think.

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