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Pittsburgh-LA proposal

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Old
10-27-2006, 11:29 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
I absolutely LOVE you Pitt fans - you haven't done JACK in about a decade and you MAY even CONTEND for the playoffs this season but do you seriously think you won't get absolutely WAXED by the likes of Buffalo/Carolina/Ottawa and even the Rags?

You will be begging, pleading, praying to Jesus that if you could somehow acquire the likes of Miller or Sopel or any seasoned veteran the Kings have, you will GLADLY give up anyone that's not nailed down on your roster for a shot at the cup.

As I mentioned in the Conoy thread, look what Carolina gave up for Doug Weight. What did Pittsburgh get for that RELIC Recchi?

Pittsbugh is still young and still thin in certain areas. Granted, they are going to be a gigantic force for the next several years, but if the new owners want the playoff money NOW, they are going to trade Welch and Whitney and anyone else for a shot at the playoffs THIS YEAR.

Look at what Nashville gave up for Brendan Witt!

It's not a "salary dump" as much as its "rent a vet" which is what Carolina did with Recchi AND Weight.

Guess what happened?

They won the cup

Was it worth giving up those assets?

Your damn right it was. The revenue generated and the fact that they won the cup was ALL worth it.

You don't think if Buffalo (who was the better team IMO) could have pucked up a D-man for their THREE injured D-men they would have GLADLY sacraficed any number of their top prospects?

In a New York minute.

If the Penguins are battling Montreal/Tampa for the 8th and final playoff spot, do you REALLY think the Penguins are going to rest on their laurels?

Nope. They'll be calling Dean Lombardi faster than you can say "Pirates lose".

If not, they'll be playing golf with the Kings in April.


Id rather not trade any of our young assets this year and golf with you guys in april and then win a few cups in June. Pens are in no way in carolinas shape. Oh ya who'd the kings ever beat the last decade? No need to throw stones when your house is as glass as ours. Frolov shows flashes, Whitney shows flashes but ITS way easier to find a scoring winger, or a forward in general than a good Offensive dman.

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10-27-2006, 11:38 AM
  #52
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It hasn't been a decade sunshine. 2001 conference finals.

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10-27-2006, 11:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by PensinPittsburgh View Post
Id rather not trade any of our young assets this year and golf with you guys in april and then win a few cups in June. Pens are in no way in carolinas shape. Oh ya who'd the kings ever beat the last decade? No need to throw stones when your house is as glass as ours. Frolov shows flashes, Whitney shows flashes but ITS way easier to find a scoring winger, or a forward in general than a good Offensive dman.
Really? How easy is to find a 25 goal 60-70 point left winger with size who is also the best defensive forward on his team. Not to mention one that is 24 years old and will only make 2.5 mill for the next 4 years. It's a lot harder than finding an offensive dman I'll tell you that. (see Joe Corvo)

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10-27-2006, 11:51 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by fyug View Post
The Pens wouldn't be trading Whitney for Brown. Did you miss that? I'd do Welch for Frolov too, if that's the case.
My bad, for some reason I thought you said Brown would be accepted for Whitney.

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10-27-2006, 01:42 PM
  #55
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Really? How easy is to find a 25 goal 60-70 point left winger with size who is also the best defensive forward on his team. Not to mention one that is 24 years old and will only make 2.5 mill for the next 4 years. It's a lot harder than finding an offensive dman I'll tell you that. (see Joe Corvo)
Didn't Pittsburgh pay 5 million bucks a year for 5 years for an offensive d-man who currenlty makes Rob Blake look like a bargain?

I'm grateful for Pittsburgh for one major accomplishment: They got the 1st pick in the draft which in turn selected Crosby. It could have been the Ducks pick and Kings fans would heve never recovered.

p.s. Joe Corvo had a 5 point game last night.

The Kings can barely score 5 points in a week.

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Old
10-27-2006, 02:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
It hasn't been a decade sunshine. 2001 conference finals.
Yup. And if we want to get into franchise pissing matches, how many cups has LA won?

/rant

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10-27-2006, 02:22 PM
  #57
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Oh, im sorry maybe we can draft the two best rookie phemons. Then we'll talk smack about your franchise...2 years ago your team didnt have a foot to stand on.

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10-27-2006, 02:24 PM
  #58
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Oh, im sorry maybe we can draft the two best rookie phemons. Then we'll talk smack about your franchise...2 years ago your team didnt have a foot to stand on.
I was responding to the earlier rant about how we're be begging you to give us anything. Call me when the Kings seal the deal and then you can tell me how to build a team.

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10-27-2006, 03:02 PM
  #59
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No need for a franchise pissing contest. Take it to PMs

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10-27-2006, 03:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
I absolutely LOVE you Pitt fans - you haven't done JACK in about a decade and you MAY even CONTEND for the playoffs this season but do you seriously think you won't get absolutely WAXED by the likes of Buffalo/Carolina/Ottawa and even the Rags?

You will be begging, pleading, praying to Jesus that if you could somehow acquire the likes of Miller or Sopel or any seasoned veteran the Kings have, you will GLADLY give up anyone that's not nailed down on your roster for a shot at the cup.

As I mentioned in the Conoy thread, look what Carolina gave up for Doug Weight. What did Pittsburgh get for that RELIC Recchi?

Pittsbugh is still young and still thin in certain areas. Granted, they are going to be a gigantic force for the next several years, but if the new owners want the playoff money NOW, they are going to trade Welch and Whitney and anyone else for a shot at the playoffs THIS YEAR.

Look at what Nashville gave up for Brendan Witt!

It's not a "salary dump" as much as its "rent a vet" which is what Carolina did with Recchi AND Weight.

Guess what happened?

They won the cup

Was it worth giving up those assets?

Your damn right it was. The revenue generated and the fact that they won the cup was ALL worth it.

You don't think if Buffalo (who was the better team IMO) could have pucked up a D-man for their THREE injured D-men they would have GLADLY sacraficed any number of their top prospects?

In a New York minute.

If the Penguins are battling Montreal/Tampa for the 8th and final playoff spot, do you REALLY think the Penguins are going to rest on their laurels?

Nope. They'll be calling Dean Lombardi faster than you can say "Pirates lose".

If not, they'll be playing golf with the Kings in April.

wow, i don't know where to start. Alot of insinuations here, but no substance...
do we expect to get beaten by the likes of carolina/buffalo sure (although we did beat the rags, so i'm not sure why you added them... ignorance maybe?)

no we won't be begging/pleading for sopel (please, you overrate this guy)/miller, after 5 years, we've come to appreciate the time involved in rebuilding. This year was not expected to be a playoff year anyways, our success thus far has been a bonus and credit Shero and Therrien for that.

Not sure what your point is referencing the Recchi/Witt trades... We're not in nearly the same position as teams such as Buffalo and Carolina, who have established teams entering their prime. The Pens on the other hand are only scratching the surface, I think you need to find a new arguement or a different team to substantiate this arguement.

You don't know much about Ballsilie do you? Whitney is a force on this team already, hes averaging the most playing time. Welch has demonstrated that he has the potential to do the same, not to mention the fact that its a known fact that Welch is a favourite of Sheros (doesn't mean he wouldn't trade him, but for someone like Sopel/Miller, it won't happen)

I think the point you miss is we don't expect to contend for the Cup this year, yet you seem to believe that we think we will be. I don't even know if we'll be contending next year, maybe the following year, but certainly not this year and in all likelyhood not next. Yet you make it seem like we're going to clear house of our prospect base in order to contend this year... so i really don't understand the whole point of your arguement, its really baseless.

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Old
10-27-2006, 03:08 PM
  #61
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No need for a franchise pissing contest. Take it to PMs
Point taken, mea culpa.

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10-27-2006, 03:10 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haik View Post
...and Frolov is better in his own end than Whitney.
No he's not, but keep spouting that BS. You don't sound ridiculous enough yet.

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10-27-2006, 03:11 PM
  #63
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My bad, for some reason I thought you said Brown would be accepted for Whitney.
No, though someone else might have.

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Old
10-27-2006, 03:34 PM
  #64
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Come on, fyug. Have you seen Frolov play? The guy is EXACTLY what the Pens need. He's young, big, mega skilled, and extremely responsible in all three zones. Quite frankly, we'd be nuts not to do Frolov for Whitney. Look, I like Whitney as well. And I never said Letang and Goligoski are/will be as good as Whitney. BUT, again, you must give to get in this league. And currently the Pens have nothing even remotely approaching Frolov in terms of ability on the wings.

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10-27-2006, 03:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
Didn't Pittsburgh pay 5 million bucks a year for 5 years for an offensive d-man who currenlty makes Rob Blake look like a bargain?

I'm grateful for Pittsburgh for one major accomplishment: They got the 1st pick in the draft which in turn selected Crosby. It could have been the Ducks pick and Kings fans would heve never recovered.

p.s. Joe Corvo had a 5 point game last night.

The Kings can barely score 5 points in a week.
Blake is older and far more injury prone. Gonchar looks like a steal compared to Jovo, Kubina, McCabe ....

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10-27-2006, 03:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
Oh, im sorry maybe we can draft the two best rookie phemons. Then we'll talk smack about your franchise...2 years ago your team didnt have a foot to stand on.
No one did. There was a lockout.

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10-27-2006, 06:14 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Come on, fyug. Have you seen Frolov play? The guy is EXACTLY what the Pens need. He's young, big, mega skilled, and extremely responsible in all three zones. Quite frankly, we'd be nuts not to do Frolov for Whitney. Look, I like Whitney as well. And I never said Letang and Goligoski are/will be as good as Whitney. BUT, again, you must give to get in this league. And currently the Pens have nothing even remotely approaching Frolov in terms of ability on the wings.
Yes, I've seen him play. And yes, we could use someone like him. But we can not afford to give up Whitney in the process. All we do is complain about how awful our defense is, but then we're willing to trade the guy that we're going to build our defense around for years to come? We have nobody like Frolov as a wing prospect, but if we lost Whitney, we'd have nobody who could approach his talent on defense either. Not Letang and not Goligoski, even though I am really high on him. Furthermore, think about that obnoxious catchphrase you have in your signature - our amazing centers will make the wings we have better. Guys like Christensen, Filewich, etc... Yeah, they're not Frolov, but with Sid, Malkin and Staal, they don't need to be. Getting Dustin Brown for Noah Welch is a much better deal for us than Frolov for Whitney, no matter how much you like Frolov.

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10-27-2006, 09:41 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by fyug
All we do is complain about how awful our defense is, but then we're willing to trade the guy that we're going to build our defense around for years to come? We have nobody like Frolov as a wing prospect, but if we lost Whitney, we'd have nobody who could approach his talent on defense either. Not Letang and not Goligoski, even though I am really high on him.
I realize you really like Whitney but if that bolded part is true then we're in deep trouble. Welch & Letang will both be better defensively than Whitney will be... probably. I'm not real high on Whitney but I think he has a bright future in Pitt. He's great offensively but you still have to be able to play defense and some physicallity would be good too. You talk like he's a future #1 and he's not. The Pen's don't have any real #1 d-men in the organization.

I think Whitney lacks aggressiveness which is something that can't be taught.

Would you trade Whitney for JJ? or Weber? Straight up - assuming it was offered
I'm just curious because I would.


Last edited by Zeus6754: 10-27-2006 at 10:13 PM.
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10-27-2006, 09:44 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by fyug View Post
Yes, I've seen him play. And yes, we could use someone like him. But we can not afford to give up Whitney in the process. All we do is complain about how awful our defense is, but then we're willing to trade the guy that we're going to build our defense around for years to come? We have nobody like Frolov as a wing prospect, but if we lost Whitney, we'd have nobody who could approach his talent on defense either. Not Letang and not Goligoski, even though I am really high on him. Furthermore, think about that obnoxious catchphrase you have in your signature - our amazing centers will make the wings we have better. Guys like Christensen, Filewich, etc... Yeah, they're not Frolov, but with Sid, Malkin and Staal, they don't need to be. Getting Dustin Brown for Noah Welch is a much better deal for us than Frolov for Whitney, no matter how much you like Frolov.
Fair enough. And it is an interesting debate. All the more interesting for me because the Kings are probably my second favorite team.

I didn't realize my sig was that obnoxious...

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10-27-2006, 10:35 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by #1GuinFan View Post
(although we did beat the rags, so i'm not sure why you added them... ignorance maybe?)
Ignorance? Um.... maybe I missed it. The Penguins haven't MADE the playoffs in the past 4 years, so HOW could you have beat the Rangers?

Too much Maui Wowie, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by #1GuinFan View Post
no we won't be begging/pleading for sopel (please, you overrate this guy)/miller, after 5 years, we've come to appreciate the time involved in rebuilding.
So what you're saying is, if your D-men are injured and you're 3-4 games in front of Montreal/Tampa/Florida, you won't be begging for experienced defensive help? A bit naive, even for an intelligent Pens fan, don't you think?

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This year was not expected to be a playoff year anyways
Not according to....
http://sportsecyclopedia.com/tank/nhl07/nhl2k7.html
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs...atch_200607_Ed
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06274/726476-61.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9538819/
http://www.nhl.com/features/preview/pit_preview.html

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Not sure what your point is referencing the Recchi/Witt trades...
Okay. One word at a time so you can understand.
Other. Teams. Overpaid. For. Recchi. And. Witt. And. Weight.

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We're not in nearly the same position as teams such as Buffalo and Carolina,
Really? The season previous to winning the Stanley Cup, Carolina was 28-34-14 and MISSED the playoffs - Buffalo, before making it to the Conference finals last season was 37-34-37 the previous season and MISSED the playoffs.

So, basically what YOU are telling all of US as well as your fellow Pittsburgh Penguins fans, is that you're NOT going to make the playoffs AGAIN even though you have the talent to do so?

Oh, sorry, of course. You're the guy that doesn't want to trade anyone - kind of like what Carolina did when they acquired Doug Weight and Mark Recchi.... but you're not willing to do THAT right?

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You don't know much about Ballsilie do you? Whitney is a force on this team already, hes averaging the most playing time. Welch has demonstrated that he has the potential to do the same, not to mention the fact that its a known fact that Welch is a favourite of Sheros
Yet YOU have said with such quality, that you DON'T EXPECT to make the playoffs. If these guys are such a "force" along with Malkin and Oullete and Staal and Gonchar and Letang and Fleury, how could you NOT EXPECT to make the playoffs?????

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Originally Posted by #1GuinFan View Post
I think the point you miss is we don't expect to contend for the Cup this year
Yeah, I think Buffalo fans and Carolina fans and Edmonton fans said the same thing, right? Detroit fans already had THIER names etched on the cup. Whoops!

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yet you seem to believe that we think we will be. I don't even know if we'll be contending next year, maybe the following year, but certainly not this year and in all likelyhood not next.
Wow! You don't even think you'll be contending NEXT year? - I want to save this so I can one day throw it back in your face - I thought I was a pessimist - Are you sure you're not a closet Kings fan? Only we think like this.

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Yet you make it seem like we're going to clear house of our prospect base in order to contend this year... so i really don't understand the whole point of your arguement, its really baseless.
Baseless? How about R-E-A-L-I-T-Y

Do your research - look at the SC winners and losers and what they had to give up to acquire last minute help. Go ahead.

I don't expect you to "clean house", but if the new owners have a shot at a playoff spot, they KNOW they have a shot at the SC Finals (Oilers were the 8th seed, Calgary Flames were 6th in 2004, Mighty Ducks were 7th in 2003), you can be sure they're going to pull the trigger - - lord knows we gave up Tambellini a(1st round pick) and Grebeshkov (1st round pick) to rent Parrish.

But one of us will be right come the trade deadline and while everyone will be happy that the Pens got the help they needed, you'll be whining that you had to give up "your future".

Yeah, how'd that Anshakov for Straka deal work out for ya?

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10-27-2006, 11:15 PM
  #71
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Wow, I think you need to step back and take a breath.

I'm still laughing about someone praying to Jesus for Aaron freaking Miller.

Dear Jesus,
Please let us trade one of our better young defensemen for an aging, injury prone d-man who inflated his value by playing on a stacked team. Amen.

p.s. if we could get Jon Klemm too, that would be awesome!

The guy hasn't managed to play 50 games in the past 4 years, and you think we're being unfair in this case? Can the superior attitude, we're not turning down a guy who would be a huge help to this team, we're turning down a deal that would cause more problems than it solves. This team is not one piece away from a cup run, and if it was, that piece wouldn't be Aaron freaking Miller.

I'm also not sure why you're asking how that trade is working out for us, how's it working for you? I like Marty but he couldn't stay healthy and he was playing like crap. He put up two more points in LA than he did here, and that was in 10 more games, so don't act like he went there and won the scoring title.


Last edited by Zen Arcade: 10-28-2006 at 02:28 AM.
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10-28-2006, 01:18 AM
  #72
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Wow, I think you need to step back and take a breath.

I'm still laughing about someone praying to Jesus for Aaron freaking Miller.

Dear Jesus,
Please let us trade one of our better young defensemen for an aging, injury prone d-man who inflated his value by playing on a stacked team. Amen.

p.s. if we could get Jon Klemm too, that would be awesome!

The guy hasn't managed to play 50 games in the past 4 years, and you think we're being unfair in this case? Can the superior attitude, we're not turning to down a guy who would be a huge help to this team, we're turning down a deal that would cause more problems than it solves. This team is not one piece away from a cup run, and if it was, that piece wouldn't Aaron freaking Miller.

I'm also not sure why you're asking how that trade is working out for us, how's it working for you? I like Marty but he couldn't stay healthy and he was playing like crap. He put up two more points in LA than he did here, and that was in 10 more games, so don't act like he went there and won the scoring title.
Thank you for taking that one Zen.

I suppose i must have misspelled 'ignorance', perhaps it should have read 'arrogant'.
CGBG, i'll let other people explain these simple things to you, since it appears my response went well above your head.

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10-28-2006, 04:24 AM
  #73
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well, this one has run its course.

Bravo, folks. Bravo.

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