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Rangers make line-up changes for Coyotes game

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Old
10-28-2006, 11:03 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think there are varying opinions on how Dubi played in presason. For me, his play steadily declined from his first game. Offensively, he has the skill and talent. Overall, he has the heart. But he just looked lost out there way too much and the game seemed too quick for him (too often, even in the offensive zone, the puck would pass him because he wasn't prepared - his stick wasn't on the ice - which is a sign of a kid struggling to find his way at the next level).

Well, you know your players lot better than I do. Thanks.

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10-28-2006, 11:20 AM
  #27
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I find it funny/odd/sad/humorous that we are praising Ozo and hoping that he can provide some defensive stability lol. But we are bashing Malik and Rozsinval. I mean dont get me wrong I was one of the people who where very against him after his late season fumblings,and lets not even start on the playoffs. But it seems like he has actually made serious strides to get back to the player he used to be. Granted he only played one game so far, but he looked at though he has made some improvments. Not to mention he looked better in one game than most of the guys who have been there since Oct. 5th have on D. I know alot of people think that they will come back with less defensemen, who do you guys think is going to go? I think its Malik personally, he has looked less than stellar out there, even lazy at times, so I would vote for him. But does he have any value? Or do you guys think its going to be a draft pick as well?

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10-28-2006, 11:20 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I could be wrong, but didn't Jarkko log 15-ish minutes right from his first call-up last season?

I thought Cullen was just what the Rangers needed Larry, a second line C, so I'm not sure why there is resistance to playing him in that role. It's clear that every other center except Nylander is struggling to do their job well.

It's nothing short of a crime that only one defenseman that appeared in the last game is sitting tonight. That had better prove to be incorrect. Dawes being benched is an absolute joke.

I'm offically concerned about the logic being employed behind the bench.
Someone else is being concerned. We have one line that can do someting. If they stop that then there is no chance of scoring. Power Play is very important here.

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10-28-2006, 11:34 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
I don't understand how a team can develop chemistry if each player has two new line mates every game. You (Renney) can't expect them to click on their first shift, you have to give it time. But then again, I don't get paid to make these decisions, so maybe I don't know anything.

Go ahead and scratch Dawes, he wasn't showing any sign of improvement whatsoever anyway. Lets keep Adam Hall in the lineup so that Renney and Sather don't lose face instead.
Hall has played rather well...

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10-28-2006, 11:39 AM
  #30
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Blair Betts has played 75 games as a New York Rangers and has amassed a GRAND TOTAL of 3 assists.

I dunno, don't sound like 2nd (or even 3rd line) center material to me.

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Old
10-28-2006, 11:41 AM
  #31
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This is very close to being our best lineup...my only thing now would be moving Hollweg to the 1st line, Straka down to the 2nd line wing moving Cullen to the C and Betts 3rd line C...so:

Hollweg-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Cullen-Shanahan
Prucha-Betts-J Ward
Dawes (NOT HOSSA)-Hall-Orr

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10-28-2006, 11:44 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
This is very close to being our best lineup...my only thing now would be moving Hollweg to the 1st line, Straka down to the 2nd line wing moving Cullen to the C and Betts 3rd line C...so:

Hollweg-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Cullen-Shanahan
Prucha-Betts-J Ward
Dawes (NOT HOSSA)-Hall-Orr
yea i agree, hossa has a -7 and so he gets to keep playing and he also has 0 pts, while dawes has 1 goal and I guess Dawes -2 keeps him out of the lineup Hossa is crap

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Old
10-28-2006, 11:49 AM
  #33
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that makes sense bench a rookie. sounds like the ranger approach to me

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10-28-2006, 12:00 PM
  #34
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looks like another 10 mins of ice time for Prucha. what a joke. The kid should be playing 17-20 mins at least. send dawes back down if your not gonna play him... killing the kids confidence is not the best idea.

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10-28-2006, 12:06 PM
  #35
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Seems like Dawes is the odd man out whenever they decide to dress Orr. Why not sit Hossa out for this one? He hasn't been so hot either. He's done nothing offensively. Betts is not a 2nd line NHL center no matter whether you put both Jagr and Shanahan with him. I don't see how these kinds of moves are going to make those lines more productive--they in fact seem very disfunctional to me. It's about time that Rachunek sat one out though or maybe two. I wouldn't mind seeing Pock back in the lineup either.


Last edited by eco's bones: 10-28-2006 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
10-28-2006, 12:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
TB, I'm with ya...As I said in the other thread, I think the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines are non-sensical, horrendous and will do nothing to foster continuity and chemistry on this team...I'm a little less critical of the defense maybe because I HOPE Pock is being sat becasue he is staying around and Renney is trying to decide which of the 7 mamalukes to get rid of...And Rachunek sitting was an absolute must....The others have sat, except Roszival, but he at least had 1-2 good games while Rqchunek has been atrocious since about the 2nd game....
I've been thinking the same way and I really, REALLY hope we're right. If they're not trying to trade one of the D, it makes no sense to keep 8 with the big club, especially with HFD also struggling right now. You are begging for a poor return if you try to trade a guy while he's benched (unless you're talking about a superstar feuding with his coach or something like that), so perhaps they're continuing to run the "Million Dollar Seven" out there night after night in an effort to generate interest.

Only thing that makes me worry that perhaps this is NOT true is that Pock would have to clear waivers and that's why they're keeping him.

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Old
10-28-2006, 12:48 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I've been thinking the same way and I really, REALLY hope we're right. If they're not trying to trade one of the D, it makes no sense to keep 8 with the big club, especially with HFD also struggling right now. You are begging for a poor return if you try to trade a guy while he's benched (unless you're talking about a superstar feuding with his coach or something like that), so perhaps they're continuing to run the "Million Dollar Seven" out there night after night in an effort to generate interest.

Only thing that makes me worry that perhaps this is NOT true is that Pock would have to clear waivers and that's why they're keeping him.
maybe that is the reason they are not calling up Immonen, he has played in a pro league in europe and one in the ahl last year and is already 24. I thought he would be subject to waivers this year.

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Old
10-28-2006, 01:06 PM
  #38
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So Kaspar doesn't like the presure of having to perform?

Renney is dropping Prucha to the third line?

Betts remains at center?

Dawes gets the shaft for Colton (cant stake can't win a fight) Orr

I don't know it doesn't make much sense but when our lineup was balanced on paper we weren't winning consistantly either.

Btw Ward up until last season played mostly center in his career so that doesn't bother me as much..

For all the Immonen talk it's not like the guy is lighting the world on fire in hartford.

When Pock was playing he didn't look that good. The whole money aspect of the argument is complete BS. It takes away from the other good points that posters make about the Rangers. It's like the bogus Jagr Entourage theory of last season.

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Old
10-28-2006, 01:13 PM
  #39
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These changes are going to mean little if the starting goaltender continues stopping the puck at an .878 clip. It's to be hoped that a better team and team defense in front of him will help him regain his form of the first 60 games of last season, but Lundqvist must also raise his own level of play ... if he can, which is to say, if the first 3/4 of last season wasn't more than a career stretch which he will never again achieve.

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Old
10-28-2006, 01:30 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Cullen-Betts-Shanny
Prucha-Ward-Hall
Hossa-Hollweg-Orr

Rozsival-Malik
Tyutin-Ward
Kasper-Ozolinsh
that lineup should pretty much answer any and all questions about why we are so bad...a 4th line center (at best) as the #2 center and 2 wingers as the 3rd and 4th line centers and 4 of 6 dmen guys that don't look like they even belong in the nhl this year...

i threw up in my mouth when seeing these line combos. they are so pathetically sad...hope no one is looking at this line combos and thinking cup contender, or even playoff team.

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Old
10-28-2006, 02:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So Kaspar doesn't like the presure of having to perform?

Renney is dropping Prucha to the third line?

Betts remains at center?

Dawes gets the shaft for Colton (cant stake can't win a fight) Orr

I don't know it doesn't make much sense but when our lineup was balanced on paper we weren't winning consistantly either.

Btw Ward up until last season played mostly center in his career so that doesn't bother me as much..

For all the Immonen talk it's not like the guy is lighting the world on fire in hartford.

When Pock was playing he didn't look that good. The whole money aspect of the argument is complete BS. It takes away from the other good points that posters make about the Rangers. It's like the bogus Jagr Entourage theory of last season.
You want Betts on wing? Colton can't win a fight? Prucha ended the Florida game on the 3rd line, so how is he being dropped? Don't mean to pick on you or anything but just don't understand your analysis on the following

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10-28-2006, 02:31 PM
  #42
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It sounds like a move is coming. Players will be evaluated on different lines and/or showcased before such a move. Whether it be a callup, a signing, a trade, or waivers, I can't see that two games will make or break the season, and sometimes coaches and GMs will make choices geared toward longer term moves over single-game performance.

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10-28-2006, 02:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
sometimes coaches and GMs will make choices geared toward longer term moves over single-game performance.
Let's hope that's the mindset of management.

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Old
10-28-2006, 02:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
You want Betts on wing? Colton can't win a fight? Prucha ended the Florida game on the 3rd line, so how is he being dropped? Don't mean to pick on you or anything but just don't understand your analysis on the following
When is the last time Colton won a fight? Hmm?

And please stop using the +/- stat for your arguments. You know that means absolutely nothing. I bet you are prepared to defense Colton Orr when he gets 3 minutes of ice time, doesn't protect any of our players, and is utterly invisible?

As for these lines Renney is clueless. They haven't worked and all he is doing is to further absolve the cohesiveness these players are attempting to create/maintain.

Why not stick with a solid lineup that won us the first two games in a comfortable manner?

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanny
Dawes-Betts-Ward
Hossa-Hollweg-Hall

And Kaspar thinks he has to compete for a job? Newsflash.... you do Darius. Why don't you just go out and play your game instead of whining to the media? If I saw comments like those and I was coach, you'd sit until you learned to keep your mouth shut and perform on the ice to the best of your ability. Your identity this season has been nothing short of ineffectual.

And yet again Nigel Dawes gets scratched for playing a smart hockey game, getting shots on/toward the net, and throwing his frame around in the corners. Why?

I'm fully expecting us to get pummeled by the Coyotes because despite "Natural Ice" Orr in the lineup we won't respond or be physical (except when Laraque beats down Colton). We will get rattled if we are down a goal - and we will undoubtedly take a bad penalty when the team has the most momentum. The PP will pass 8 times to every shot they take (none coming from the point since Straka and Roszival will be there) and the PK will use a nice collapsed diamond formation to allow long screened shots from the point. We are all set up for failure yet again.

I know I'm not the only one that has zero faith in this coaching staff right now -- and honestly all they are doing is living off their most recent success (last season) to this point. Let's see some creativity to inspire the players.

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10-28-2006, 02:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
When is the last time Colton won a fight? Hmm?

And please stop using the +/- stat for your arguments. You know that means absolutely nothing. I bet you are prepared to defense Colton Orr when he gets 3 minutes of ice time, doesn't protect any of our players, and is utterly invisible?

As for these lines Renney is clueless. They haven't worked and all he is doing is to further absolve the cohesiveness these players are attempting to create/maintain.

Why not stick with a solid lineup that won us the first two games in a comfortable manner?

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanny
Dawes-Betts-Ward
Hossa-Hollweg-Hall

And Kaspar thinks he has to compete for a job? Newsflash.... you do Darius. Why don't you just go out and play your game instead of whining to the media? If I saw comments like those and I was coach, you'd sit until you learned to keep your mouth shut and perform on the ice to the best of your ability. Your identity this season has been nothing short of ineffectual.

And yet again Nigel Dawes gets scratched for playing a smart hockey game, getting shots on/toward the net, and throwing his frame around in the corners. Why?

I'm fully expecting us to get pummeled by the Coyotes because despite "Natural Ice" Orr in the lineup we won't respond or be physical (except when Laraque beats down Colton). We will get rattled if we are down a goal - and we will undoubtedly take a bad penalty when the team has the most momentum. The PP will pass 8 times to every shot they take (none coming from the point since Straka and Roszival will be there) and the PK will use a nice collapsed diamond formation to allow long screened shots from the point. We are all set up for failure yet again.

I know I'm not the only one that has zero faith in this coaching staff right now -- and honestly all they are doing is living off their most recent success (last season) to this point. Let's see some creativity to inspire the players.
Let me ask you a question. Firstly, the last time was probably when he fought Erskine at MSG. If not that, then it was vs Godard on the Island the 1st or 2nd time. Has he had many fights since then? One vs Peters, one vs McGrattan is all I remember. Moving on, what would you like us to do...not respond at all? Obviously Laraque will beat down Colton, but there is no reason for Laraque or a better enforcer not to be on our team. Until we get some real physical guys who can play, the answer is gonna have to be Colton, and I agree with those who say Dawes should play, Hossa should be out. Also, what plus minus reason?

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10-28-2006, 02:48 PM
  #46
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TB, I'm with ya...As I said in the other thread, I think the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines are non-sensical, horrendous and will do nothing to foster continuity and chemistry on this team...I'm a little less critical of the defense maybe because I HOPE Pock is being sat becasue he is staying around and Renney is trying to decide which of the 7 mamalukes to get rid of...And Rachunek sitting was an absolute must....The others have sat, except Roszival, but he at least had 1-2 good games while Rqchunek has been atrocious since about the 2nd game....
Only in Ranger land does a deserving player sit when terribly underperforming vets get ice time in the form of "showcasing", but I still tend to doubt this possiblity. I think they truly view Pock as the #7/#8 defenseman.

Maybe Straka, Cullen and Immonen aren't great 2nd line centers, but aren't they all better options over Blair Betts.

How does the -7 Hossa, worst among forwards, with no points avoid the scratch while Dawes gets the seat?

At first I thought Malik played last game so the Garden crowd couldn't lace into Ozolinsh, but seeing as how he made the lineup again... well I'm just not sure what the staff sees during these games.

Things are going to get worse before they get better.

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10-28-2006, 03:01 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Let me ask you a question. Firstly, the last time was probably when he fought Erskine at MSG. If not that, then it was vs Godard on the Island the 1st or 2nd time. Has he had many fights since then? One vs Peters, one vs McGrattan is all I remember. Moving on, what would you like us to do...not respond at all? Obviously Laraque will beat down Colton, but there is no reason for Laraque or a better enforcer not to be on our team. Until we get some real physical guys who can play, the answer is gonna have to be Colton, and I agree with those who say Dawes should play, Hossa should be out. Also, what plus minus reason?
To counter your points or to provide insights. Colton has been beaten down by McGratton, Jannsen, Peters, etc -- guys who are far better fighters and players than Colton and as a goon expert I'm sure you know this. Colton is not the answer for this team.

As for responding I stated serveral times in posts recently that this team has to grow to respond on its own through cohesiveness. Colton Orr like it or not will have little effect on this team until the entire lineup believes in themselves. Even Hollweg has refused to stick up for the most part. Last year he was always diving in. And you can't expect more physical play from players who despite their best efforts to throw checks will be largely ineffectual in that these players aren't aggressive types. To fully change the makeup of this team would be to trade/call up for these traits you seek.

And no Hossa should not be out out the lineup because he brings intangibles that are important to winning hockey games. While he is a borderline player at this point in time he brings more than Colton Orr. You used the +/- stat to show that Hossa is a -7 when that stat just shows that he was on the ice when the other team scored. Not that he was responsible for any goals personally. That stat is a pile of junk. I don't agree when you use it, I don't agree with SoS uses it to suck Roszivals ***.

I'm not an anti-physical poster but for this team to be physical they have a lot of bonding to do or roster retooling in the future.

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10-28-2006, 03:02 PM
  #48
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Only in Ranger land does a deserving player sit when terribly underperforming vets get ice time in the form of "showcasing", but I still tend to doubt this possiblity. I think they truly view Pock as the #7/#8 defenseman.

Maybe Straka, Cullen and Immonen aren't great 2nd line centers, but aren't they all better options over Blair Betts.

How does the -7 Hossa, worst among forwards, with no points avoid the scratch while Dawes gets the seat?

At first I thought Malik played last game so the Garden crowd couldn't lace into Ozolinsh, but seeing as how he made the lineup again... well I'm just not sure what the staff sees during these games.

Things are going to get worse before they get better.
Actually, if I were given the chance to make some call ups-changes......

Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Shanahan-Immonen-Cullen
Straka-Ward-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

Ward-Toots
Malik-Baranka
Kasper-Pock

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10-28-2006, 03:20 PM
  #49
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To counter your points or to provide insights. Colton has been beaten down by McGratton, Jannsen, Peters, etc -- guys who are far better fighters and players than Colton and as a goon expert I'm sure you know this. Colton is not the answer for this team.

As for responding I stated serveral times in posts recently that this team has to grow to respond on its own through cohesiveness. Colton Orr like it or not will have little effect on this team until the entire lineup believes in themselves. Even Hollweg has refused to stick up for the most part. Last year he was always diving in. And you can't expect more physical play from players who despite their best efforts to throw checks will be largely ineffectual in that these players aren't aggressive types. To fully change the makeup of this team would be to trade/call up for these traits you seek.

And no Hossa should not be out out the lineup because he brings intangibles that are important to winning hockey games. While he is a borderline player at this point in time he brings more than Colton Orr. You used the +/- stat to show that Hossa is a -7 when that stat just shows that he was on the ice when the other team scored. Not that he was responsible for any goals personally. That stat is a pile of junk. I don't agree when you use it, I don't agree with SoS uses it to suck Roszivals ***.

I'm not an anti-physical poster but for this team to be physical they have a lot of bonding to do or roster retooling in the future.

I'm sorry, but the missing intangible right now is the one that Colton brings not the little body checks or 30 seconds of PK time that Marcel gets. Yes I know Colton is not the best at what he does, but he's the only one we got right now

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10-28-2006, 03:36 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
I'm sorry, but the missing intangible right now is the one that Colton brings not the little body checks or 30 seconds of PK time that Marcel gets. Yes I know Colton is not the best at what he does, but he's the only one we got right now
You're saying that Colton (last game 4 mins played, 0 hits, and 1 fight he lost, and 0 min of PK time) brings what this team needs? Good lord this team is doomed if that's the case. Petr freakin Prucha had more hits than mr tough guy Orr.

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