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Right Now Would You Consider Theo a Vezina Candidate?

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Old
11-24-2003, 01:35 AM
  #1
Fish on The Sand
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Right Now Would You Consider Theo a Vezina Candidate?

I would consider him a candidate right now, but I wouldn't give him the award, may not even the final 3, but definatly top 5,a nd some fo the other goalies in the top 5(in my mind at least, others will have a top 5 different than mine), have a lot to prove, where as Theo will keep up his play for the whole season, as he is proven, where as someone like Raycroft or Roloson still have to prove they can do it over a full season.

If your wondering, my top 5 are, in no order are

Brodeur
Raycroft
Roloson
Theodore
Khabibulin


Poor Theo Fleury. In the last 3 years not only has he lost the name Theo, but he also lost Fleury as well lol.

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Old
11-24-2003, 04:38 AM
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loveshack2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
I would consider him a candidate right now, but I wouldn't give him the award, may not even the final 3, but definatly top 5
He wouldnt even make my top 5 right now. Why should he? His numbers certainly dont support it at the moment. Im not saying he won't pick it up, but IMHO in order to be a Vezina candidate you have to finish higher than 17th in sv%, 19th in GAA and an under .500 winning %.

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11-24-2003, 04:58 AM
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I'd go with:



1)Khabibulin
2)Dunham
3)Roloson
4)Weekes
5)Brodeur



(the above are in no specific order)

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Old
11-24-2003, 05:00 AM
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No.

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Old
11-24-2003, 06:15 AM
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Absolutely not. He has been inconsistent, and he has not been able to lead his team to victories.

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11-24-2003, 06:26 AM
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I think he drastically improved from last year's poor showing but he still needs more to competer for the trophy. I do see him in the top 10 candidates though. I guess the early faves would be:

Khabibulin
Brodeur
Roloson
Raycroft
Dunham
Hackett/Esche Combo

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Old
11-24-2003, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
and he has not been able to lead his team to victories.
Pardon? He's tied for 5th in wins on ,one of the worst teams in the league.

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11-24-2003, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaigs
Pardon? He's tied for 5th in wins on ,one of the worst teams in the league.
He has also played 17 games and has an 8 - 9 record. Again, he hasn't been able to lead his team to victories.

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11-24-2003, 06:58 AM
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Quaigs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
He has also played 17 games and has an 8 - 9 record. Again, he hasn't been able to lead his team to victories.
In the 9 games he lost the habs only scored 14 goals, and the one game they scored over two (4) they lost in over time. So if you take that away the team was averaging 1.25 goals a game. Theres not a goalie in the league with a better goals against then that. We can put any goalie in his place and they wouldn't have any more wins then him. If you don't score you don't win.

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Old
11-24-2003, 07:47 AM
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Enoch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaigs
In the 9 games he lost the habs only scored 14 goals, and the one game they scored over two (4) they lost in over time. So if you take that away the team was averaging 1.25 goals a game. Theres not a goalie in the league with a better goals against then that. We can put any goalie in his place and they wouldn't have any more wins then him. If you don't score you don't win.
They may have only scored 14 goals, but Theodore gave up 33 goals! On average, that is 3.7 goals allowed a game. In this defensive league, how can you expect a team to score 4 goals to win a game? Furthermore, how do you expect a team to come back from a huge hole? Many of his losses were complete blowouts. A few of the losses he played well in, but for the majority, he did not. If your going to use stats, use both sides of the stats. It gives everyone a clearer picture.

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11-24-2003, 08:26 AM
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Theodore for Vezina, please you must be kidding. So he has the most SO's, but he's not been that good. No way not even close. I've watched every game he's played, and yes he's better then last year (actually, it was only the 1st half of last season that he stunk up the joint) but calling him a top 5 goalie is insane.

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11-24-2003, 10:03 AM
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Brodeur is gonna win again.

Turco should have won it last year

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Old
11-24-2003, 10:08 AM
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If Jose Theodore is a Vezina candidate, then so is Dan Cloutier...

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Old
11-25-2003, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
If Jose Theodore is a Vezina candidate, then so is Dan Cloutier...
The Canucks are winning in spite of Cloutier. The game against Montreal was agreat example. Habs got outstanding goaltending, canucks got absolutly dreadful goaltending, and the canucks still won.

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11-25-2003, 02:29 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
I would consider him a candidate right now
Of course you would. You're... you.

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11-25-2003, 02:29 PM
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^The first three Habs goals were screened, Cloutier didn't have much of a chance on them. The fourth goal however, that was Cloutier's fault. Though I could be thinking about the first Leafs game..

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Old
11-25-2003, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
He wouldnt even make my top 5 right now. Why should he? His numbers certainly dont support it at the moment. Im not saying he won't pick it up, but IMHO in order to be a Vezina candidate you have to finish higher than 17th in sv%, 19th in GAA and an under .500 winning %.
Saying he is 17th in save % is ignorant. Only the follwoing goalies have played a sizeable cunk of games(15+), and have a higher save %. Brodeur, Cloutier, Deni, Luongo, and Aebischer are ahead of him. Which makes him 6th, as opposed to 17th. Unless of course you consider the save %'s of guys like Gerber, Huet, Garon and Toskala to be valid in determining the rankings

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11-25-2003, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
^The first three Habs goals were screened, Cloutier didn't have much of a chance on them. The fourth goal however, that was Cloutier's fault. Though I could be thinking about the first Leafs game..
Screened by what, daylight? Only the 2nd goal wasn't weak. Markov scores unscreened from a bad angle. Zednik sores on weak shot thatis unscreened, and Ryder scores because Cloutier is too stupid to cover the puck. I didn't see the Toronto game that Cloutier played in, so I have no idea how the goals were scored other than the fact one was into an empty net. It's been the same song and dance from CLoutier his entire career. The fans in cancouver know who the reals tarter should be, and that is Hedberg. Mind you, hedberg did blow the game with that Sundin goal which should have never, in any league have gone in the net.

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11-25-2003, 02:43 PM
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^you say that Theodore should be a Vezina candidate, cite his save % as only beneath those of a select few, list Cloutier among those select few, and in the very next post, state that Cloutier should be a backup goalie.

A statue of Hedberg could have played better in net than Hedberg last night. It's as if some guy threw on Hedberg's gear and went out there.

Cloutier is a very good goalie in my opinion, not Vezina status by any means but still a legitimate starter. His positioning is excellent, and if the Canucks never had defensive breakdowns he'd have one of the best GAA's in the NHL.

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11-25-2003, 02:44 PM
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And I must have had the Leafs game in mind when I said the stuff about being screened.

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Old
11-25-2003, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Saying he is 17th in save % is ignorant. Only the follwoing goalies have played a sizeable cunk of games(15+), and have a higher save %. Brodeur, Cloutier, Deni, Luongo, and Aebischer are ahead of him. Which makes him 6th, as opposed to 17th. Unless of course you consider the save %'s of guys like Gerber, Huet, Garon and Toskala to be valid in determining the rankings

Actually if you want to include all those guys like Huet and Garon then Theodore drops to roughly 26th. As it is, I did not.

I included goalies who had played 10 games or more to ensure that the goaltender in question had played in at least half of his team's games. I dont know how you figure "15" is the magic number. So guys like Dunham who have a .923 sv% over 14 games dont count? Or Roloson with a .931 sv% over 13 games? Sure thing.

BTW Osgood has also played in your magic "15" games so even by your system Theodore has fallen to 7th with Weekes, Cechmanek and Nurminen a scant .002% behind him.

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11-25-2003, 03:05 PM
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Where's the love for Ozzie?

The St.Louis defence is a patchwork of AHL journeymen for the most part, but Ozzie continues to keep the Blues close. Far more than i can say for Roloson.

Osgood is not an elite goaltender, but the guy is quickly becoming the Rodney Dangerfield of NHL goaltenders. Wins a ring in Detroit, shuffled out because of Cujo. Claimed on waivers by the then horrible Islanders and backstops them to their first playoff berth in several years. Has a rough start, gets hurt and plays hurt for the rest of the following season despite playing pretty well in the playoffs on one leg, takes a pay cut to stay in St. Louis.

He might not have the most talent in the world, but on heart and perseverance, Osgood should get some credit.

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Old
11-25-2003, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
Actually if you want to include all those guys like Huet and Garon then Theodore drops to roughly 26th. As it is, I did not.

I included goalies who had played 10 games or more to ensure that the goaltender in question had played in at least half of his team's games. I dont know how you figure "15" is the magic number. So guys like Dunham who have a .923 sv% over 14 games dont count? Or Roloson with a .931 sv% over 13 games? Sure thing.

BTW Osgood has also played in your magic "15" games so even by your system Theodore has fallen to 7th with Weekes, Cechmanek and Nurminen a scant .002% behind him.
First off, a true starter will play much more than roughly half the games. So hackett and Esche are immediatly eliminated from the equation. As for Osgood, that was simply my bad. Simply just missed him on the statsheet. Something has to be said for 20 shutouts too. He is on pace for around 20, which is sickening, while being, and any arguement against this is baseless and just stupid, the ONLY reason his team is remotely competetive, and in playoff contention. Like I said, I only consider him a candidate, and not even top 3. Its not like I'm saying he should win the vezina. FYI, Brodeur actually won the vezina trophy lasts eason with an average save %. Also, if your going to use players behind theo is save % to diminish an arguement in his favor, I'll work it the other way. Theo is only .002 and .003 behind Cloutier and Osgood.

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11-25-2003, 03:11 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
Where's the love for Ozzie?

The St.Louis defence is a patchwork of AHL journeymen for the most part, but Ozzie continues to keep the Blues close. Far more than i can say for Roloson.

Osgood is not an elite goaltender, but the guy is quickly becoming the Rodney Dangerfield of NHL goaltenders. Wins a ring in Detroit, shuffled out because of Cujo. Claimed on waivers by the then horrible Islanders and backstops them to their first playoff berth in several years. Has a rough start, gets hurt and plays hurt for the rest of the following season despite playing pretty well in the playoffs on one leg, takes a pay cut to stay in St. Louis.

He might not have the most talent in the world, but on heart and perseverance, Osgood should get some credit.
The then horrible Isles? You mean the team that acquired Yashin, Bates and Peca, and experienced vast improvements from guys like Parrish and Scatchard? Osgood was just one of many reasons the Isles improved so dramatically.

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Old
11-25-2003, 04:07 PM
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Luongo constantly faces 35+ shots every night and he keeps the Panthers in nearly every game. His save percentage is awesome and he's stolen the last 2 for the cats.

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