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Where do we go from here...Rant here!!!

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Old
10-28-2006, 11:37 PM
  #1
Pelle
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Where do we go from here...Rant here!!!

I have been a Flyer Fan for over twenty years and dare say this is probably the lowest point in recent Flyer history. I just cannot believe what is going on here. It seems that a passion level is gone from this team. I never thought Forsberg was a "true" leader but one of those players that lead by example, and if our passion level is set by our "leader" then we are in big trouble.

I thought the change in staff and management was a necessary step and maybe just maybe tonight's game is a product of growing pains in an attempt to over turn a team that is clearly in a state of disarray. We need to find a solution for Hatcher and a real goalie would be nice, but I think it goes deeper than that.

There is culture of defeatest behavior that is developing, or has already developed in this team that has to be altered immediately! Restart the fire boys, we need the old desire back. We need to COMPETE at a higher level every night and if we cannot win at least send the other team a message that if you play Philly, you are going to leave the game black and blue!

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Old
10-28-2006, 11:40 PM
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watson
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major moves, if we are going to suck, lets suck with young players learning...learning right, not from guys like hatcher dancing with the puck in front of the net.

Trade for Roenick, atleast he would yap on the ice

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Old
10-29-2006, 12:17 AM
  #3
penguinonapole
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Waiving Hatcher Rathje and Gauthier would be an obvious start.

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Old
10-29-2006, 12:35 AM
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'06/'07 Flyers = '05/'06 Pens

Poor start, changing coaches & gm's..

As a Pens fan, I feel for you as the fans.. Of course, I wouldn't despise the Flyers so much if they'd buy out cheap shot artist Hatcher. Other than him, I like RJ Umberger and Carter.. You have some good young talent, but Rathje and Hatcher need to go to the special olympics..

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Old
10-29-2006, 12:40 AM
  #5
Evil Speaker
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Originally Posted by penguinonapole View Post
Waiving Hatcher Rathje and Gauthier would be an obvious start.
You might be able to trade Rathje and Gauthier for somthing..

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Old
10-29-2006, 01:25 AM
  #6
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Relax, the Pens are pretty good, and I gotta be honest, this is the 1st time I can say the Flyers are a pretty weak team and won't be able to rough up or bully a team at all, maybe it's just a coincidence but I think that's a direct cause for the poor start

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10-29-2006, 01:36 AM
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get rid of hatcher. thats all i care about. id be willing to sit on my hands the entire season if all that happened was lousy, fat, slow, idiot, stupid, unskilled, ugly, worthless, molasses-like hatcher was gone

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Old
10-29-2006, 03:44 PM
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Well, I am surprised noone is talking about Knuble's injury in last nights game. He broke his finger and was scheduled to have surgery. There has been no mention of this on the boards or in the paper.
What will the lines look like Monday night? Any thoughts?

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Old
10-29-2006, 03:51 PM
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Pelle
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I did not hear that! Wow, things just go from bad to worse for us!

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Old
10-29-2006, 03:59 PM
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I just saw it posted on one of the other boards. He will be out for 2 weeks.

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Old
10-29-2006, 04:14 PM
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BobbyClarkeFan16
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get rid of hatcher. thats all i care about. id be willing to sit on my hands the entire season if all that happened was lousy, fat, slow, idiot, stupid, unskilled, ugly, worthless, molasses-like hatcher was gone
But that would mean the organization would have to admit they made a mistake in signing Hatcher to that horrendous contract and I think they're going to do all they can before they consider waiving him to try to save face. I do agree though. He has to go. He just simply can't keep up and in this day and age, you need to have mobility and be able to keep up.

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Old
10-29-2006, 04:45 PM
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jfc64
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I'd start with trading middle aged players...24-30 years of age. Umberger, who is never going to become anything of importance, Calder, Gauthier, Meyer, Jones, Esche, maybe even Jonsson, Robitaille...then I'd showcase the Nedveds, Rathjes, Knubles and Sandersons for the trading deadline. Hatcher would go in a package with Forsberg for a secondrounder or so. Gagne with Rathje for John LeClair...all that plus the high draft pick would be a good start. Maximum buyout, no farm team humiliation please, then sign Forsberg to a 3 year 18 million contract after the season.

But first I'd give this team half a season.

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Old
10-29-2006, 05:21 PM
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For starters stop giving Hatcher 24 minutes a game. That's just insanity.

Flyers needs to sort out the defense foremost and if that is done by giving up some offense then so be it. I'm sure that will benefit both the goalies and the forwards as well.

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Old
10-29-2006, 06:00 PM
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hatcher definitly needs to go, watchin hatcher get beat up last night was the highlight of the game for me.

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Old
10-29-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
I'd start with trading middle aged players...24-30 years of age. Umberger, who is never going to become anything of importance, Calder, Gauthier, Meyer, Jones, Esche, maybe even Jonsson, Robitaille...then I'd showcase the Nedveds, Rathjes, Knubles and Sandersons for the trading deadline. Hatcher would go in a package with Forsberg for a secondrounder or so. Gagne with Rathje for John LeClair...all that plus the high draft pick would be a good start. Maximum buyout, no farm team humiliation please, then sign Forsberg to a 3 year 18 million contract after the season.

But first I'd give this team half a season.
Uhhh, we could get a lot more than a second rounder "or so" for Forsberg and no one is taking Hatcher off our hands. Gagne and Rathje for Leclair???? Why would we want another slow aging player who is far past his prime on this team?

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Old
10-29-2006, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
I'd start with trading middle aged players...24-30 years of age. Umberger, who is never going to become anything of importance, Calder, Gauthier, Meyer, Jones, Esche, maybe even Jonsson, Robitaille...then I'd showcase the Nedveds, Rathjes, Knubles and Sandersons for the trading deadline. Hatcher would go in a package with Forsberg for a secondrounder or so. Gagne with Rathje for John LeClair...all that plus the high draft pick would be a good start. Maximum buyout, no farm team humiliation please, then sign Forsberg to a 3 year 18 million contract after the season.

But first I'd give this team half a season.


There aren't enough smilies that can express how utterly dumb this post is.

Gagne and Rathje for LeClair?

Forsberg and Hatcher for a 2nd rounder?

Dude, you need to learn the game of hockey.

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Old
10-29-2006, 09:17 PM
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Broad st phantom
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post


There aren't enough smilies that can express how utterly dumb this post is.

Gagne and Rathje for LeClair?

Forsberg and Hatcher for a 2nd rounder?

Dude, you need to learn the game of hockey.

he must be french

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Old
10-29-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
I'd start with trading middle aged players...24-30 years of age. Umberger, who is never going to become anything of importance, Calder, Gauthier, Meyer, Jones, Esche, maybe even Jonsson, Robitaille...then I'd showcase the Nedveds, Rathjes, Knubles and Sandersons for the trading deadline. Hatcher would go in a package with Forsberg for a secondrounder or so. Gagne with Rathje for John LeClair...all that plus the high draft pick would be a good start. Maximum buyout, no farm team humiliation please, then sign Forsberg to a 3 year 18 million contract after the season.

But first I'd give this team half a season.
ok lets break this down.
middle aged players aged 24-30. wow ok then, good thing Carter and Richards are only 2 or 3 years away from being "middle aged"
I wouldnt give up on Umberger hes struggling like everyone else
Calder a UFA after this year, we dealt Zues for him I cant see us dealing him, if things dont work he walks after the season.
Gauthier isnt going anywhere we are stuck with that ****** contract
Meyer and Jones have zero trade value
hold onto Jonsson and Robitialle I think they have played well in the opportunity, and Lars Jonsson sheesh we got to have someone on the blueline who can skate other then Pitkanen.
Nedved, has as mutch trade value as some lint.
Rathje, see Gauthier
Sanderson, come on hes been one of our better players in this ****** season.
Hatcher, again see Nedved
trading Gagne to Pittsburgh for Leclair? are you friggin serious? jesus. That happens and I am done with this team. period.

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Old
10-30-2006, 06:32 AM
  #19
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Quote from Philly Burbs paper.

While Derian Hatcher might be a league-worst minus-14, Holmgren said he's not unhappy with the veteran defenseman's play.

“He's trying his rear end off,” Holmgren said. “There's too much focus on Derian, in my opinion. Does he stand out at times on the negative side? Yeah, but not because of lack of effort.”



I guess everyone see things through different eyes.

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Old
10-30-2006, 06:41 AM
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I don't really see that there's much to do. We have 10 or 11 rookies or sophomores i think. Let them play, I don't think we have anything to lose by doing this. I really don't think Niitymaki's been bad. When your defenseman gives up the puck just outside the crease it's difficult to make those saves on a regular basis. Hatcher needs to be moved to the 3rd pairing. He can not handle the minutes he's given. If i'm going to watch a defenseman screw up I want it to be a young guy, at least he would have an excuse and hopefully improve from it. I wouldn't be unhappy if they demoted Hatcher to the AHL. It has nothing to do with disrespecting the player. The player makes the money no matter where he plays but if Hatcher get's demoted we need another dman to replace him. For the most part I think our defensive problems are mental and not physical. Mostly lack of effort and knowing where to go and I think that's improving under Stevens, despite the Penguins loss. If the Flyers defense plays aggressive disciplined hockey and maintain their gaps they'll be fine but no more getting out of position for the big hit or handling the puck in front of their own net.

The players may think they lost alot in the CBA but as long as they have guaranteed contracts they are wrong. God, Hatcher makes at least one ESPN Highlight reel give away a game yet never sees his minutes reduced. I also think that Calder should probably be resigned for one more year unless he wants more money. The problem with every time we trade for a scorer is we give them 10-15 games then trade them away where they regain their form and become the scorer we thought they would be (ie. Comrie). Something needs to change in the way Philly does things, as scorers come here to die.

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Old
10-30-2006, 06:57 AM
  #21
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I think the first step is Ed Snider needs to take his foot off the GM pedal and hire someone with some vision for the team. Rebuild or not, roster moves need to be made, and a coach with a fresh approach and a fresh eye to what is going wrong needs to be hired. Holmgren and Stevens are still too much under the shadow of Clarke and Hitch to make any radical departures from the plan that got us in this situation.

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Old
10-30-2006, 11:08 AM
  #22
jfc64
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Originally Posted by ClarkeIsGoneDotCom View Post
ok lets break this down.
middle aged players aged 24-30. wow ok then, good thing Carter and Richards are only 2 or 3 years away from being "middle aged"
I wouldnt give up on Umberger hes struggling like everyone else
Calder a UFA after this year, we dealt Zues for him I cant see us dealing him, if things dont work he walks after the season.
Gauthier isnt going anywhere we are stuck with that ****** contract
Meyer and Jones have zero trade value
hold onto Jonsson and Robitialle I think they have played well in the opportunity, and Lars Jonsson sheesh we got to have someone on the blueline who can skate other then Pitkanen.
Nedved, has as mutch trade value as some lint.
Rathje, see Gauthier
Sanderson, come on hes been one of our better players in this ****** season.
Hatcher, again see Nedved
trading Gagne to Pittsburgh for Leclair? are you friggin serious? jesus. That happens and I am done with this team. period.
LeClair is an UFA and is worth zero anyway...what I wanted to say is that it's more important to trade Rathjes contract than hanging on to Gagne for 5 million a year. I like Sanderson too, but my point is that we must have a clear plan what to do if there's not a change in the way we play, that is trade the rest of the old players at the deadline. I'm with you on Jonsson and Robitaille. Nedved is lost but might do a decent job (although expensive) a year when rebuilding. Something might NEED to be done a few months away. All possibilities seem bad, especially if we must trade from a weak bargaining position. My idea was to have two alternative ways for this team, while still looking for a PO. Meyer might be a keeper. "Middle aged" was a joke...

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Umberger-Richards-Carter
Robitaille-Murray-Kapanen
Eager-Cullen-Dimitrakos-Ellison...plus what we can get on defense for all absent players.

This doesn't look that bad. If we can get one of Hatcher or Rathje away and add a defender like Kronwall etc I might live with Gauthiers contract. Maybe even take a flyer on trading away our firstrounder as well. I'd rather want us to perform well, but if nothing happens...

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Old
10-30-2006, 11:30 AM
  #23
jfc64
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How about this:

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Umberger-Carter-Knuble
Robitaille-Richards-Kapanen
Eager-Murray-Dimitrakos


Pitkänen-Jonsson (PP)
Meyer-Rathje
Hatcher-Kronwall


The impossible blockbuster would then be Gagne, Gauthier (Rathje is not realistic), Calder and a firstrounder for a player like Kronwall etc. Gagne might have a value relative to his salary, Gauthier a minus, Calder slight minus and the firstrounder a big plus in this "trade". Maybe throw in Picard or Potulny as well.

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Old
10-30-2006, 11:37 AM
  #24
Pelle31
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I have been a Flyer Fan for over twenty years and dare say this is probably the lowest point in recent Flyer history. I just cannot believe what is going on here. It seems that a passion level is gone from this team. I never thought Forsberg was a "true" leader but one of those players that lead by example, and if our passion level is set by our "leader" then we are in big trouble.
Maybe Forsberg will do the same thing that Recchi did for the Penguins last year and waive his no-trade clause as long as the contender he's going to gives up some good prospects to the Flyers. Then Philly can re-sign him in the summer.

Niittymaki seems to be struggling to find consistancy in his game, he kind of reminds me of Lindbergh in his second year. Pelle had a great rookie year, struggled in his second year when they made him number one and then he had his breakout year in his third season.

I just hoping Holmgren keeps the youth, and Stevens plays them to gain experience. Depending where the Flyers are standings wise at the deadline, then you make decisions regarding trading the veterans. As for Hatcher and Rathje, I'd try to play them less minutes as possible, in the summer tell both of them that they'll be waived and hope they retire instead.

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Old
10-30-2006, 11:59 AM
  #25
ArchieIsGod
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
How about this:

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Umberger-Carter-Knuble
Robitaille-Richards-Kapanen
Eager-Murray-Dimitrakos


Pitkänen-Jonsson (PP)
Meyer-Rathje
Hatcher-Kronwall


The impossible blockbuster would then be Gagne, Gauthier (Rathje is not realistic), Calder and a firstrounder for a player like Kronwall etc. Gagne might have a value relative to his salary, Gauthier a minus, Calder slight minus and the firstrounder a big plus in this "trade". Maybe throw in Picard or Potulny as well.
that is one of the worst trade ideas ive seen in a long time...you realize that first round pick could verywell be a loto pick??? plus u add gange and calder...maybe its because i havent seen alot of kronwall but i highly doubt he is worth that

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