Surprise, surprise. Rivet's the whipping boy because he's been on the ice for a few goals agaisnt early on in the season and struggled at times, like every other defenceman has I might add..
Never mind him challenging Iginla to a scrap (sticking up for his team when no one else was) and sparking his team to a win with that shorthanded breakaway goal and subsequent great celebration.
Never mind the shot he took off the foot that would have sidelined 90 per cent of the league's defencemen for the next game and more, but since the Habs were already severely shy on defenceman, Rivet sucked it up for the hundredth plus time as a Hab and played when he shouldn't have. For all we know he's still hampered by yhe injury, but Rivet would never complain about such a thing; he's old school.
Never mind that he's the longest serving Hab, a classy individual highly respected by his teammates and the captain in particular, the team's player rep and excellent with the media and fans despite all the crap he puts up with (including the booing)
Never mind that he would be snapped up by every other team in the league tomorrow if he were put on waivers
Craig doesn't skate like a ballerina and was on the ice for three goals against his last game - trade da bum!!!!
Bravo ! you named few things he did well during his overall career .
That doesn't change the fact that Rivet never was able to be dominant , never learned how to do the first passe instead of shuting the puck on the glass or to dump it in the other zone . That doesn't change the fact that he's slow and get a lot of penalities that changed the tempo of a the Habs game , and cost a lot of goals .
I wouldn't be "indifferent" about any trade the Habs made... even if it's a player I don't like "indifferent" wouldn't be the way to describe my reaction! We'd have a 400-page thread about it no matter who it was.
That said, I can't believe how many people are on Rivet's case. At least it gives my ignore list a good chance to expand exponentially, however, since I pretty much have to assume that anybody who thinks Rivet is a 6th-7th d-man or should be waived (or should in any other way be an odd man out or taken off the team) is probably not worth reading opinions from in the future.
My concern, like I stated is that I think our defense is what could keep us for going further if we want to improve as a team. We have some pretty good forwards and some upcoming ones, on D we may have O'Byrne and Emelin who could really make a difference on the blue line, maybe as soon as next year......So if we think Markov, Souray and Rivet should remain part of that team and you also have Komi in the mix, if we want to improve, you can't think keeping Dandy, Streit and Bouillon will improve greatly our defensive corps, if you do well you automatically think that we can't make any changes to this lineup until O'Byrne or Emelin eject 1 one of those with their great play......I personnally think Rivet is a #3 on a good team but his lack of footspeed and lack of offensive awareness makes him a better #5 in my book. But nobody should ever think of putting aside his leadership contribution as well as his dedication for this team, why he should remain on the team.....
But to Markov's expense or Souray's if we only can keep 2 out of 3????? Or we keep all 3 and find a way to get rid of Dandy and his salary????
In terms who might bring the best return? Probably Souray.
Depending how their seasons pan out, I think we'll see that keeping both Markov and Souray might not be an option. It will likely cost around $10M to retain both. It depends how badly either wants to stay but I'm guessing that both might try and follow the money. Rivet will likely stay for $2.5-2.75M for two years and he's worth that, easily.
I don't think that Gainey should be handicapping himself or the team by paying big to keep Markov and Souray. It just doesn't add up. Given the choice, I'd prefer Markov be kept because his skillset is that much better, and in the end he'll end up helping win more games for us than Souray.
I hope Gainey starts talking with all these guys soon, but unless Souray will stay for under $3.25M, which will easily be beaten on the market, bye-bye to 44 at the trade deadline. I also think we can't give Markov much more than $4.5M as it upsets the salary structure of the team and IMHO he's not a $5M man.
Bravo ! you named few things he did well during his overall career .
That doesn't change the fact that Rivet never was able to be dominant , never learned how to do the first passe instead of shuting the puck on the glass or to dump it in the other zone . That doesn't change the fact that he's slow and get a lot of penalities that changed the tempo of a the Habs game , and cost a lot of goals .
Dominant defensemen are paid like dominant defensemen, which is why Rivet is not. He is paid like (veteran) top four guy on a mid-pack team in the league.
As for penalties, you might like to think back to how much BS was involved in some of the calls.
I was thinking that though he's a better d man than Souray in terms of his own end, despite the last 10 games, he doesn't bring a standout ability if you're building a D corps. You can put up with Souray passing into his partners feet or getting caught flat footed if he has a shot that gets you back into games. Rivet has to be solid and consistent because he doesn't have a 'fallback quality', if that makes sense.
There are teams that are looking for experienced D, there always are, but moreso at the deadline. SJ is a prime example. Thing is, teams looking to bolster are hoping to make a run so would only give up futures. Aren't we kind of hoping to be a team with some aspirations ?
Hopefully it would be a case where both teams get something they need in the short term. I'm under no illusions that we're getting anything close to a premium prospect for Rivet, so I'd rather get a player who fills a need for this year's playoff run, like maybe a big, nasty agitator, someone like a Chris Neil -- we don't really have anyone like that right now, and you like to have at least one.
We are going to have a real dilemma, though. When Bouillon and Dandenault come back, where does everyone fit? From what we've seen so far, they're both ahead of Rivet on the depth chart. Does that mean Rivet's out? I personally don't think that's the case yet. I think the pairings just need to be juggled. At full health, I see the following pairings:
I think these combos will minimize the weaknesses of Souray and Rivet. Regardless, we must get them off the same pairing. They're both klutzes with limited mobility, and they're getting eaten alive by quick forwards.
Hopefully it would be a case where both teams get something they need in the short term. I'm under no illusions that we're getting anything close to a premium prospect for Rivet, so I'd rather get a player who fills a need for this year's playoff run, like maybe a big, nasty agitator, someone like a Chris Neil -- we don't really have anyone like that right now, and you like to have at least one.
We are going to have a real dilemma, though. When Bouillon and Dandenault come back, where does everyone fit? From what we've seen so far, they're both ahead of Rivet on the depth chart. Does that mean Rivet's out? I personally don't think that's the case yet. I think the pairings just need to be juggled. At full health, I see the following pairings:
I think these combos will minimize the weaknesses of Souray and Rivet. Regardless, we must get them off the same pairing. They're both klutzes with limited mobility, and they're getting eaten alive by quick forwards.
Finally someone with some sense. I don't think Bouillon will be back for a long time though. So we have that stinky Niinimaa on our blueline for most of the year I think.
I doubt you'll see them move Rivet to the third pairing.
The time to have dealt with this was the offseason, but it wasn't done.
Bravo ! you named few things he did well during his overall career .
That doesn't change the fact that Rivet never was able to be dominant , never learned how to do the first passe instead of shuting the puck on the glass or to dump it in the other zone . That doesn't change the fact that he's slow and get a lot of penalities that changed the tempo of a the Habs game , and cost a lot of goals .
Rivet's been playing better, but I don't see why him picking a fight with Iginla makes him good?
Many defensemen have been having trouble at the beginning of this season, does that mean it's an excuse for Rivet? I say no. Don't compare one players bad play to many others. It never helps your argument.
It's like when I was a kid and wanted to stay up late, I'd say "Everyone else can go to bed at 10 and they're my age, why can't I?" and my mom would say "well your not everybody else".
Implying that many other players are playing badly in the nhl (defencemen specifically) doesn't give Rivet some sort of excuse. All it means is that he's one of those defensemen and your proving ZAMBONI's point even further.
Dominant defensemen are paid like dominant defensemen, which is why Rivet is not. He is paid like (veteran) top four guy on a mid-pack team in the league.
As for penalties, you might like to think back to how much BS was involved in some of the calls.
I agree with you on this. Penalties in the last few games especially have been complete and total BS
And Rivet isn't paid like a dominant D which is true.
Finally someone with some sense. I don't think Bouillon will be back for a long time though. So we have that stinky Niinimaa on our blueline for most of the year I think.
I doubt you'll see them move Rivet to the third pairing.
The time to have dealt with this was the offseason, but it wasn't done.
I also doubt Rivet would be moved to the 3rd pairing. But what he said makes perfect sense. I don't think Ninimaa is bad though.
Bravo ! you named few things he did well during his overall career .
That doesn't change the fact that Rivet never was able to be dominant , never learned how to do the first passe instead of shuting the puck on the glass or to dump it in the other zone . That doesn't change the fact that he's slow and get a lot of penalities that changed the tempo of a the Habs game , and cost a lot of goals .
We can argue about his passing. I don't think it's as bad as you say. I though that last year when different things were asked of him, he adjusted well, and his assist totals prove it to an extent. In the pre-lockout game, a lot of d men were blasting it out of the zone.
We can argue that point, but we'd waste each other's time, because we'd end up going, 'yes he does,no he doesn't until one of us got tired.
I think the problem is that the team can use a d man that is higher up in the rankings, or skill level [however we define it] than Rivet is. OK, agreed. My question though is why Rivet ? Is Dandenault better ? No, in fact he's more of a penalty problem. He earns a little less $, so maybe he's more valuable going into next year.
So the issue is that while Rivet is good, he's not exceptional, or even 'very good' and we need someone who is. I'm just saying that we need a better d man at some point, though it doesn't have to necessarily be Rivet that leaves to make space. I think sometimes when we look at d men around the league, we have the 'grass is always greener' syndrome. I think we might miss this guy if and when he leaves.
I'd be very curious to hear a memeber of the coaching staff respond to a question about Rivet's value.
Markov..He looks lost out there this year. He is also getting closer to UFA status, and there is no way he deserves 5 million or anything close to what he will command.. Btw Murray is a good 4 line energy guy, making almost minimum.
I guess it would depend on what the team looks like afterwards. I don't think it's possible to feel indifferent when a player leaves, there's quite a number of different emotions you could feel, be it happyness or anger. I'd say that most of the team can always be improved and I generally don't mind any of Gainey's moves so far.
I don't think theres an answer for this.
only one answer for me: Garth Murray.
I don't hate him, but you know there is zero chances he blossoms else where; he's already at his own ceiling (which is prettt-ty low) Here, I could do with or without...
Key word is: indifferent. At this juncture, if Niinimaa and his 2,5 mill $ salary were to be traded, I wouldn't be indifferent, I'd be extatic
