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When Satan gets hot again, pull the trigger.

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Old
11-24-2003, 11:59 AM
  #1
David3750
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When Satan gets hot again, pull the trigger.

This guy is a cancer in the locker room. His constant sulking and don't give a damn attitude has finally played itself out with his teammates. As soon as he decides to start scoring goals again, get him out of here while the getting is good. Yes, I know he is one of the few on this team that has any clue as to what the back of the net looks like, but this show has been playing far too long. This team desperately needs heart, something Satan left in hell a long time ago.

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11-24-2003, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David3750
This guy is a cancer in the locker room. His constant sulking and don't give a damn attitude has finally played itself out with his teammates. As soon as he decides to start scoring goals again, get him out of here while the getting is good. Yes, I know he is one of the few on this team that has any clue as to what the back of the net looks like, but this show has been playing far too long. This team desperately needs heart, something Satan left in hell a long time ago.
Cancer in the lockerroom? You have access to some conversations the rest of us aren't aware of, or are you simply speaking from some fanciful opinion?

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11-24-2003, 12:56 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by David3750
This guy is a cancer in the locker room. His constant sulking and don't give a damn attitude has finally played itself out with his teammates. As soon as he decides to start scoring goals again, get him out of here while the getting is good. Yes, I know he is one of the few on this team that has any clue as to what the back of the net looks like, but this show has been playing far too long. This team desperately needs heart, something Satan left in hell a long time ago.
As much as I would love to see Satan get out of Buffalo fast, I think you need proof that he is sulking in the locker room and his teammates are sick of it. But yes, I believe he does have a "don't give a damn" attitude, and I think he is the laziest player on the team. Which is why I want him out.

 
Old
11-24-2003, 01:00 PM
  #4
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every time there are reports of "miro being unhappy" or "miro has requested a trade", i never ever see a quote
miro gets the reputation of being a sulker because he is not an outspoken guy and often times people assume too many things based on his overall demeanor
i have never seen anything concrete suggesting any of miro's teammates are unhappy with his lockerroom personality
if this team trades miroslav satan and does not get at least a player of his caliber in return they can kiss the playoffs bye-bye

lindy has been satan's coach for a long time and certainly knows him well by now
would lindy have made a "sulking and don't give a damn attitude" player the captaincy to kick off the season?

what do you base your opinion on? interviews, articles, commentary?

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11-24-2003, 01:52 PM
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I'm so sick of this crap. Miro slumps for like 8 games and you're calling to trade our franchise player - the only guy on this team since we traded Mogilny and LaFontaine that's capable of 40 goals. Seriously, get real. We just locked him up for 3 years (I think?), and he means alot to this team. I don't think anyone that can be considered a locker room cancer would be given the C, even in a rotating captaincy. That said, I don't think Miro is a leader, but I doubt he's a locker room cancer.

In a few games when he picks it up again, I bet we won't hear another word about Miro being traded.

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11-24-2003, 02:52 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
I'm so sick of this crap. Miro slumps for like 8 games and you're calling to trade our franchise player - the only guy on this team since we traded Mogilny and LaFontaine that's capable of 40 goals. Seriously, get real. We just locked him up for 3 years (I think?), and he means alot to this team. I don't think anyone that can be considered a locker room cancer would be given the C, even in a rotating captaincy. That said, I don't think Miro is a leader, but I doubt he's a locker room cancer.

In a few games when he picks it up again, I bet we won't hear another word about Miro being traded.


i konw iv said trade him, but maybe i was being harsh, he should be guided thru this.

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11-24-2003, 02:55 PM
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trading Satan would be a mistake. He is a defensively solid winger who is easily capable of another 30 goal season. And, if you moved him, you'd get little in return (given the $ situation in the NHL - not because of what Satan brings to the table). Better to hold onto him, at least until the CBA mess gets fixed.

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11-24-2003, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
I'm so sick of this crap. Miro slumps for like 8 games and you're calling to trade our franchise player - the only guy on this team since we traded Mogilny and LaFontaine that's capable of 40 goals. Seriously, get real. We just locked him up for 3 years (I think?), and he means alot to this team. I don't think anyone that can be considered a locker room cancer would be given the C, even in a rotating captaincy. That said, I don't think Miro is a leader, but I doubt he's a locker room cancer.

In a few games when he picks it up again, I bet we won't hear another word about Miro being traded.
If this guy is our "franchise player", then this franchise is in much bigger trouble than I thought. Satan wouldn't bust a sweat if his life depended on it. Just when the Sabres need a consistent goal scorer in the worst way, this bird goes on holiday. His inconsistency is the only consistent "attribute" we ever get from him. The fans deserve better. He personifies everything that is wrong with pro sports: over-paid, over-hyped, over-valued, and gutless. The C was given to him to see if it would kick his butt into gear, nothing more. It didn't work. And that, my friend, is reality.

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11-24-2003, 04:56 PM
  #9
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you are so right..i couldnt have said it any better

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11-24-2003, 05:06 PM
  #10
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i think gutless is going a bit too far

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11-24-2003, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David3750
If this guy is our "franchise player", then this franchise is in much bigger trouble than I thought. Satan wouldn't bust a sweat if his life depended on it. Just when the Sabres need a consistent goal scorer in the worst way, this bird goes on holiday. His inconsistency is the only consistent "attribute" we ever get from him. The fans deserve better. He personifies everything that is wrong with pro sports: over-paid, over-hyped, over-valued, and gutless. The C was given to him to see if it would kick his butt into gear, nothing more. It didn't work. And that, my friend, is reality.
He's simply in a slump. If he finishes the year with 40 pts, then there's cause for worry, but I'm 100% confident he'll rebound and finish strong.

I love how you can stick the "inconsistent" label on a guy who's played 79 games or more the past 5 seasons, and in those same 5 seasons has never had a point total under 62 on an extremely low-offense team. Who knows what's going on with Miro right now. What if he's having some trouble in his personal life? Lets say you're at work, you've been there and given great service for 6-7 years, and all of the sudden you're in a rut for 3 weeks and they're threatening to fire you. It just doesn't work like that, especially in hockey.

I agree, Miro doesn't deserve a C. He's not a leader, and he's pretty streaky. But seriously, you can't give up on your franchise player because he's had a rough 3 weeks. That's just crazy.

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11-25-2003, 01:58 AM
  #12
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This team desperately needs heart, something Satan left in hell a long time ago.
This team needs more goals as much as it needs heart.

And that is something that Miro can and should be bringing to the table.

Miro is streaky. That will never change. It won't change whether he has a C on his chest or gets paid $10 million a year.

He is what he is. He's soft. He's streaky. And he's far and away the biggest offensive threat this team has now and has had for the past half a decade.

Ruff needs to figure out how to get Satan's butt in gear or Regier needs to make a trade to get Satan a solid offensive center to play with <cough>Comrie</cough>.

But trading Satan right now is both next to impossible and just not a very good idea.

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11-25-2003, 02:22 AM
  #13
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I thought that Satan is starting to show good chemistry with Afinogenov last night. Both Max and Miro are passing the puck to one another, which is a good sign.

Satan is playing his off wing (LW) and was in the wrong place many times last night. If Ruff wants him to break out of his rut, then I'm not sure LW is the place to do it.

The problem with that Satan line is Brown. I'm not saying that Satan is playing hard, but the Sabres should really considering moving Brown for a better play-making center. I like Brown, but there is not enought room on this roster for him. The Briere line is a lock. Drury isn't going anywhere and he and Satan have no chemistry. Drury is very responsible defensively and could play against teams top lines, plus chip in offensively, a la Peca. That leaves a second line with Satan/Afinogenov and a new center. The Sabres wouldn't need to drop a load of cash, just get either a young guy coming up, or a vetran that is displace on their respecive team.

Anyone fit the bill?

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11-25-2003, 04:18 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
He's simply in a slump. If he finishes the year with 40 pts, then there's cause for worry, but I'm 100% confident he'll rebound and finish strong.

I love how you can stick the "inconsistent" label on a guy who's played 79 games or more the past 5 seasons, and in those same 5 seasons has never had a point total under 62 on an extremely low-offense team. Who knows what's going on with Miro right now. What if he's having some trouble in his personal life? Lets say you're at work, you've been there and given great service for 6-7 years, and all of the sudden you're in a rut for 3 weeks and they're threatening to fire you. It just doesn't work like that, especially in hockey.

I agree, Miro doesn't deserve a C. He's not a leader, and he's pretty streaky. But seriously, you can't give up on your franchise player because he's had a rough 3 weeks. That's just crazy.
I can assure you that if I had been in a "rut" where I work for an extended period of time, I would have been shown the door with no questions asked. And I don't make $5 million/year and am not the "franchise" player and am not playing a little boys game to boot. Franchise players put their "personal lives" on hold when push comes to shove and let it all hang out when the going gets tough. Do all of you on this board truly believe that Miro Satan is ready to let it all hang out for the good of his team and the franchise and the fans? Pat LaFontaine was a true franchise player. Satan isn't fit to carry Pat's jockstrap. Besides, as someone so eloquently used the phrase in another post, he doesn't have the championship sized nuts to fit Pat's strap anyway.

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11-25-2003, 04:25 AM
  #15
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I can assure you that if I had been in a "rut" where I work for an extended period of time, I would have been shown the door with no questions asked. And I don't make $5 million/year and am not the "franchise" player and am not playing a little boys game to boot.
Since when did the "real world" have anything to do with how things work in pro sports?

In the "real world" people don't get guaranteed contracts worth millions of dollars. So to try and make a comparison between the two is a waste of time.

Quote:
Franchise players put their "personal lives" on hold when push comes to shove and let it all hang out when the going gets tough. Do all of you on this board truly believe that Miro Satan is ready to let it all hang out for the good of his team and the franchise and the fans?
No.

What I expect is for Satan to float his way to another 25 to 35 goal 70 to 75 point season while playing soft, perimeter hockey.

Right now he isn't even doing that.

But, anyone who expects Satan to play hard, consistently, or gritty, is going to be disappointed because that's just not who Satan is.

Martin Lapointe didn't become a 1st liner just because the Bruins threw $5+ million a year at him. And Satan won't change what he is just because the Sabres are paying him $5 million a year over the next two seasons.

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11-25-2003, 05:52 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
trading Satan would be a mistake. He is a defensively solid winger who is easily capable of another 30 goal season. And, if you moved him, you'd get little in return (given the $ situation in the NHL - not because of what Satan brings to the table). Better to hold onto him, at least until the CBA mess gets fixed.
Good point here Darth. I think if Regier trades him, it needs to be one sweetheart of a deal. That would only come at the deadline, if at all.

I think the key word here is patience. Whether regarding offensive production, or trading Satan.

 
Old
11-25-2003, 07:24 AM
  #17
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Satan had a lot of success playing with Gratton and Pyatt last year...Satan needs his linemates to create space for him in the offensive zone, which Gratton/Pyatt accomplished last year. I'd like to see Ruff form a line of Pyatt-Brown/Hecht-Satan.

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11-25-2003, 10:05 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Since when did the "real world" have anything to do with how things work in pro sports?

In the "real world" people don't get guaranteed contracts worth millions of dollars. So to try and make a comparison between the two is a waste of time.



No.

What I expect is for Satan to float his way to another 25 to 35 goal 70 to 75 point season while playing soft, perimeter hockey.

Right now he isn't even doing that.

But, anyone who expects Satan to play hard, consistently, or gritty, is going to be disappointed because that's just not who Satan is.

Martin Lapointe didn't become a 1st liner just because the Bruins threw $5+ million a year at him. And Satan won't change what he is just because the Sabres are paying him $5 million a year over the next two seasons.
To expect and demand that any "professional" athlete give an honest days work for the absurd amount of money they make in front of fans who live from paycheck to paycheck is hardly a waste a time. Of course pro sports has nothing to do with the real world. That's a given. No one ever said otherwise. But I, for one, have no intention of using that as an excuse to not insist upon a certain level of play commensurate to the remuneration these pampered athletes receive. Every fan deserves nothing less, not to mention the organization and the community.

And yes, I do expect Satan to play hard on a consistent basis and with grit and I expect every single player on the Sabre team to do the same. And if we are all willing to not expect that because "that's just not who Satan is" or whomever, then we have all reached a new low in what we expect from our favorite professional sports teams. I expect excellence from myself at my job and I expect the same from any worker in any job at any level, including professional hockey players, real world or no real world. Just old fashioned I guess.

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11-25-2003, 02:08 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by BINGOV
Satan had a lot of success playing with Gratton and Pyatt last year...Satan needs his linemates to create space for him in the offensive zone, which Gratton/Pyatt accomplished last year. I'd like to see Ruff form a line of Pyatt-Brown/Hecht-Satan.
Hecht shouldn't be moved off the line with Briere and Dumont. Way too much chemistry there.

 
Old
11-26-2003, 02:18 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David3750
To expect and demand that any "professional" athlete give an honest days work for the absurd amount of money they make in front of fans who live from paycheck to paycheck is hardly a waste a time. Of course pro sports has nothing to do with the real world. That's a given. No one ever said otherwise. But I, for one, have no intention of using that as an excuse to not insist upon a certain level of play commensurate to the remuneration these pampered athletes receive. Every fan deserves nothing less, not to mention the organization and the community.

And yes, I do expect Satan to play hard on a consistent basis and with grit and I expect every single player on the Sabre team to do the same. And if we are all willing to not expect that because "that's just not who Satan is" or whomever, then we have all reached a new low in what we expect from our favorite professional sports teams. I expect excellence from myself at my job and I expect the same from any worker in any job at any level, including professional hockey players, real world or no real world. Just old fashioned I guess.
So you enjoy setting yourself up for disappointment?

Satan will never be a gritty hockey player.

Just like Dave Andreychuk will never beat anyone outside of Rich Pylon in a foot race.

To expect Satan play hard on a consistent basis and to play a gritty game is unrealistic and will never happen.

He's a finesse player. He always has been and always will be.

He's also a streaky floater.

To me the valid argument would have been that the Sabres should have traded him because you'd rather see them spend that kind of money on players that give a much more consistent effort.

But, given that move you're likely to see games where this team outworks opponents, but fails to score because of a lack of talented goalscorers might get worse rather than better.

Thoroughbreds make poor plow horses. Just like plow horses won't beat a thoroughbred in a race.

Players are what they are. And Miro is a soft floater. No amount of money will change that. And to expect that is just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

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11-26-2003, 03:54 AM
  #21
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Someone would have to step up and score 30-40 goals before the Sabres trade Miro. Kotalik? Briere? Dumont? Hecht? If one of them gets hot, and/or develops, and is on pace for 30-40 by the trading deadline, AND Buffalo is out of the playoff race, then Miro could get traded this year.

 
Old
11-26-2003, 04:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Thoroughbreds make poor plow horses. Just like plow horses won't beat a thoroughbred in a race.

Players are what they are. And Miro is a soft floater. No amount of money will change that. And to expect that is just setting yourself up to be disappointed.
Agreed, JB. Also, I'd like to add that being inflexible in your demands creates unreasonable expectations and unworkable conclusions, and in effect just clogs this message board with noise as opposed to analysis.

The point of any argument is to reach a conclusion that will affect a positive solution to a problem. Demanding Miro be what he isn't because that's the way 'things should be' is not going to get the desired results... a Better on-ice performance from the Sabres.

Personally, I think it would be ridiculous to trade Miro at this point, but, if he is sulking, or ticked off with Ruff, or or or or or....then a change of scenery is in order. But, it should be handled the way McPhee handled the Bondra sitch a few years back.... where he told Pete to improve his play so that he could be traded for a reasonable return. Give a little to get a little, as it were. Of course, what both sides found is that the minute Bondra played harder, the team started playing better, the problem obviated itself and Bondra is still with the Caps.

Ta,

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11-26-2003, 04:31 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabot55
Someone would have to step up and score 30-40 goals before the Sabres trade Miro. Kotalik? Briere? Dumont? Hecht? If one of them gets hot, and/or develops, and is on pace for 30-40 by the trading deadline, AND Buffalo is out of the playoff race, then Miro could get traded this year.
I think there are some deals out there that might make some sense without other players stepping it up that much.

I could see the Sabres moving Satan to a team like the Red Wings in a salary dumoing move and then going out and taking on salary in a deal with a team like the Islanders that is looking to shed some payroll.

Although, that would likely lead to this team getting grittier, so maybe that is a pipedream........

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11-26-2003, 04:50 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob
I think there are some deals out there that might make some sense without other players stepping it up that much.

I could see the Sabres moving Satan to a team like the Red Wings in a salary dumoing move and then going out and taking on salary in a deal with a team like the Islanders that is looking to shed some payroll.

Although, that would likely lead to this team getting grittier, so maybe that is a pipedream........
While I was away I thought about what if Miro was out for an extended period and the team did fairly well scoring. Then he might get traded.

I think the move you suggested might happen. I'd rather see Miro stay the season, and have his scoring streak occur near the end of the season. Then he might have real high value around draft time.

A guy that I wouldn't mind come back on a deal for Satan would be Darryl Sydor. I am in Kentucky now, and get all the Columbus games. Wow, he has impressed me. I've watched him play almost every game this year. He QB's their PP, and does well. Great outlet passer, starts a lot of the Marchant/Nash/Letowski and Cassels/Sanderson/Vyborny rushes. And he's really good in his own zone. He's a fantastic skater, hits hard, plays gritty, and even got into a fight, and held his own, when they beat Detroit 3-0 a couple games ago. He wears the "A" for them.

BTW, Malhotra had a goal last night, and overall played a tremedous game. He can really play. Great wheels, hits like a truck. Kind of like a bigger Peca. Too bad Columbus got a chance to get him first.

 
Old
11-26-2003, 09:14 AM
  #25
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This is just another example of when a player and team have a contract impasse, the player should be traded.

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