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Is Ron Hainsey becoming David Wilke?

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Old
11-24-2003, 12:23 PM
  #1
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Is Ron Hainsey becoming David Wilke?

Wilke was a highly touted prospect for the Canadiens, I know some of you remember the can't miss blueliner from the WHL.

Lets compare some stats:

Ron Hainsey: 6'3 211 lbs

1997-98 US Jr. National Team USHL 3 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 US Jr. National Team USHL 48 5 12 17 45 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 UMass-Lowell NCAA 30 3 8 11 20
2000-01 UMass-Lowell NCAA 33 10 26 36 51
2000-01 Quebec Citadelles AHL 4 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0
2001-02 Quebec Citadelles AHL 63 7 24 31 26 3 0 0 0 0
2002-03 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 33 2 11 13 26 23 1 10 11 20
2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 21 0 0 0 2 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 11 1 1 2 4
NHL Totals 32 1 1 2 6

David Wilke: 6'3 215 lbs
1990-91 Seattle Thunderbirds WHL 25 1 1 2 22 -- -- -- -- --
1991-92 Kamloops Blazers WHL 71 12 28 40 153 16 6 5 11 19
1992-93 Kamloops Blazers WHL 53 11 26 37 109 6 4 2 6 2
1993-94 Kamloops Blazers WHL 27 11 18 29 18 -- -- -- -- --
1993-94 Regina Pats WHL 29 27 21 48 16 4 1 4 5 4
1994-95 Fredericton Canadiens AHL 70 10 43 53 34 1 0 0 0 0
1994-95 Montreal Canadiens NHL 1 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
1995-96 Fredericton Canadiens AHL 23 5 12 17 20 -- -- -- -- --
1995-96 Montreal Canadiens NHL 24 1 5 6 10 6 1 2 3 12
1996-97 Montreal Canadiens NHL 61 6 9 15 63 2 0 0 0 2
1997-98 Montreal Canadiens NHL 5 1 0 1 4 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 Tampa-Bay Lightning NHL 29 1 5 6 17 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Tampa-Bay Lightning NHL 46 1 7 8 69 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Cleveland Lumberjacks IHL 2 0 2 2 0 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 1 0 2 2 0 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 Houston Aeros IHL 57 4 24 28 71 11 1 8 9 10
2000-01 Houston Aeros IHL 49 8 11 19 29 7 1 1 2 4
2000-01 New-York Rangers NHL 1 0 0 0 2 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Augusta Lynx ECHL 72 11 34 45 86 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 167 10 26 36 165 8 1 2 3 14


I'm not suggesting Hainsey is a bust yet.. but they both play a very similar style.

Just curious if any of you see similarities about how they both moved the puck... etc.

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11-24-2003, 12:25 PM
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Wilkie's development had been hindered by injury and concussion. When he was traded, he already lost confidence and he is not hitting anymore because of the concussion he had.

Hainsey has no such problem.

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11-24-2003, 12:27 PM
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In my opinion Komisarek is ahead of Hainsey both Offensively and Defensively and is on another level than Hainsey, if Hainsey wasnt drafted in the first round there wouldn't be as much hype around him.

By the way, Habs, can you please resize a pic for me man? Yes/No?, if yes i'll post the pic..

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11-24-2003, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
In my opinion Komisarek is ahead of Hainsey both Offensively and Defensively and is on another level than Hainsey, if Hainsey wasnt drafted in the first round there wouldn't be as much hype around him.

By the way, Habs, can you resize a pic for me man? Yes/No, if yes i'll post the pic..
BTW, Wilke was a first round pick.

Post the image, I'll resize it.

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11-24-2003, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
By the way, Habs, can you please resize a pic for me man? Yes/No?, if yes i'll post the pic..

You know you can use something as simple as MS Paint to resize pics... it's not very complicated.

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11-24-2003, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Wilkie's development had been hindered by injury and concussion. When he was traded, he already lost confidence and he is not hitting anymore because of the concussion he had.

Hainsey has no such problem.
He was coaching last year in the ECHL... the head coach of Augusta Lynx.

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11-24-2003, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildbeliefs
You know you can use something as simple as MS Paint to resize pics... it's not very complicated.
I can, but it doesn't resize them in the center like i want it.

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11-24-2003, 12:31 PM
  #8
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In my opinion Komisarek is ahead of Hainsey both Offensively and Defensively and is on another level than Hainsey

You gotta be kidding right? Komisarek ahead of Hainsey offensively? How much of Hainsey have you actually seen? the one here in Montreal didn't show a fraction of what he can do. Get some Citadelles tapes and then try to convince yourself Komisarek is better then Hainsey offensively.


Komisarek has no where near the skating skills that Hainsey has and even if he is good on the PP, he is nowhere near as creative.

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11-24-2003, 12:35 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
You gotta be kidding right? Komisarek ahead of Hainsey offensively? How much of Hainsey have you actually seen? the one here in Montreal didn't show a fraction of what he can do. Get some Citadelles tapes and then try to convince yourself Komisarek is better then Hainsey offensively.


Komisarek has no where near the skating skills that Hainsey has and even if he is good on the PP, he is nowhere near as creative.
I've seen alot of Hainsey, enough to know i find Komisarek better offensively and defensively, infact i find him quite underrated offensively. Komi has no where near the skating skills that Hainsey has? C'mon are you serious here? *rolls eyes*

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11-24-2003, 12:38 PM
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Hainsey skating isnt that good ...
yeah he has long smooth stride .. but he

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11-24-2003, 12:39 PM
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Hainsey skating isn't that good ...
yeah he has long smooth stride .. but he's far from being fast ....
he looked like brisebois and even slowler ...

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11-24-2003, 12:39 PM
  #12
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Komi has no where near the skating skills that Hainsey has? C'mon are you serious here? *rolls eyes*

Its easy to judge based on Hainseys performance of the past two years, but Chow looked real slow last year during his slump, but he isnt.

Hainsey has a long stride and he can generate a lot of speed, he can also make end to end plays with his strong skating. Komisarek can't.

Komisarek has a better wrist and slap shot but that doesn't mean Hainsey doesn't have a good one either.


Based on pure skill, Hainsey has more, but based on overall production, you'll get much more out of Komisarek thats for sure.

Quote:
Hainsey skating isn't that good ...
yeah he has long smooth stride .. but he's far from being fast ....
he looked like brisebois and even slowler ...

Like I said, you shouldn't judge a player when he's struggling like Hainsey has. When he is playing with a lot of confidence, he is a dominatnt player offensively and he can skate really well. he just needs to get going.

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11-24-2003, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Its easy to judge based on Hainseys performance of the past two years, but Chow looked real slow last year during his slump, but he isnt.

Hainsey has a long stride and he can generate a lot of speed, he can also make end to end plays with his strong skating. Komisarek can't.

Komisarek has a better wrist and slap shot but that doesn't mean Hainsey doesn't have a good one either.


Based on pure skill, Hainsey has more, but based on overall production, you'll get much more out of Komisarek thats for sure.




Like I said, you shouldn't judge a player when he's struggling like Hainsey has. When he is playing with a lot of confidence, he is a dominatnt player offensively and he can skate really well. he just needs to get going.
I'm basing my opinons on all the games i've seen form Hainsey from this year and last year and some Hamilton games, and i don't agree with most of what you're saying..

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Old
11-24-2003, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
I'm basing my opinons on all the games i've seen form Hainsey from this year and last year and some Hamilton games, and i don't agree with most of what you're saying..

Bingo, these past two years Hainsey has been struggling, he hasn't been near the player he was in Quebec or even in last years preseason. Do you remember the TO-MTL game when CJ took the helms. Hainsey was really great but even then he wasn't even at his best.



EDIT: Anyway, what would I gain by saying lies in this type of discussion? People judge players way too fast. I can assure you Jokinen was no where near what he is right now. Same goes for a lot of players, thats what a breakthrough year is, its when you finally put your talent to use. Remember Theodore?

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11-24-2003, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
Bingo, these past two years Hainsey has been struggling, he hasn't been near the player he was in Quebec or even in last years preseason. Do you remember the TO-MTL game when CJ took the helms. Hainsey was really great but even then he wasn't even at his best.



EDIT: Anyway, what would I gain by saying lies in this type of discussion? People judge players way too fast. I can assure you Jokinen was no where near what he is right now. Same goes for a lot of players, thats what a breakthrough year is, its when you finally put your talent to use. Remember Theodore?
Yes, i know Hainsey has talent, but what im getting at is some ppl arer mad cause Hainsey was sent down, i'm not, and im sure you arent either because you agree like hes playing like crap right now right?

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11-24-2003, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
Yes, i know Hainsey has talent, but what im getting at is some ppl arer mad cause Hainsey was sent down, i'm not, and im sure you arent either because you agree like hes playing like crap right now right?

He hasn't played bad, but he hasn't played well either. His stint in Hamilton might be good for him. I just want to see him be at the level he was before. I feel we rushed the guy last year and now I understand why management is so patient, those kids aren't ready.


I just hope our future big 3 doesn't end up like the one we were supposed to have a few years ago(Rivet, Wilkie, Fiztpatrick), I was pretty young, but I got a heck of a memory and that was disapointing to say the least.

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11-24-2003, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Bingo, these past two years Hainsey has been struggling, he hasn't been near the player he was in Quebec or even in last years preseason. Do you remember the TO-MTL game when CJ took the helms. Hainsey was really great but even then he wasn't even at his best.

Two seasons in a row now he has struggled, that is what is raising some red flags about him. He has shown NOTHING at the NHL in terms of offense that people have raved about. Doesn't it scare anyone that while on the ice, he is doing very little. Again, two years now, it doesn't make him a bust but you have to be concerned.

Komisarek had a great year in the AHL, and got an early call up for 21 games, and didn't look out of place as a 5-6 defenseman. This year, he struggled early, but has been the best dman for the Bulldogs as of late. You can at least see improvement.

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11-24-2003, 01:11 PM
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Like i said before.. when hainsey will play like he is able to play he will be the best offencive defenceman we will have. Cant hold too much a offencive defenceman on defence. Thats the problem with canadiens rookies, they cant show off their stuff because they must play well defencively. Kovalchuk was what in his first year ? -28 or something ? DOES SOMEONE CARES NOW.

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11-24-2003, 01:15 PM
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Kovalchuck is a rare talent and he is already the best goalscorer in the league by far at the tender age of 20. I would trade anyone for him, his desire is unmatched, he is also a number 1 pick overall and he is probably the player every team in the league would pick first if there were to be a a huge draft.


Don't compare Hainsey to Kovalchuck, in fact don't compare most prospects with him because at 18, Kovalchuck couldve scored 30 if it werent for his injury, at 19 he got 38.

Hainsey is a defensemen, so defense is crucial.
Even Spezza was sent down. That says a lot.

We gotta be patient, I feel we rushed Hainsey(although I was for having him here, now I realize I was wrong) and should've let him in the minors last year. Now his confidence is shattered and we can only hope he does well.

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11-24-2003, 01:18 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Kovalchuck is a rare talent and he is already the best goalscorer in the league by far at the tender age of 20. I would trade anyone for him, his desire is unmatched, he is also a number 1 pick overall and he is probably the player every team in the league would pick first if there were to be a a huge draft.


Don't compare Hainsey to Kovalchuck, in fact don't compare most prospects with him because at 18, Kovalchuck couldve scored 30 if it werent for his injury, at 19 he got 38.

Hainsey is a defensemen, so defense is crucial.
Even Spezza was sent down. That says a lot.

We gotta be patient, I feel we rushed Hainsey(although I was for having him here, now I realize I was wrong) and should've let him in the minors last year. Now his confidence is shattered and we can only hope he does well.
... you dont get it. it was an example. It was the first rookie that did something that came to my mind. Dont worry i wont touch your godly kovalchuk anymore.

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11-24-2003, 01:18 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
He hasn't played bad, but he hasn't played well either. His stint in Hamilton might be good for him. I just want to see him be at the level he was before. I feel we rushed the guy last year and now I understand why management is so patient, those kids aren't ready.


I just hope our future big 3 doesn't end up like the one we were supposed to have a few years ago(Rivet, Wilkie, Fiztgerald), I was pretty young, but I got a heck of a memory and that was disapointing to say the least.
It was Fitzpatrick...

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11-24-2003, 01:26 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Blackshad
... you dont get it. it was an example. It was the first rookie that did something that came to my mind. Dont worry i wont touch your godly kovalchuk anymore.


It was a very bad example. Comparing first overall picks that are 6'2" 230 pound torpedos with later picks is not a good example at all. I mean, even in his 38 goal campaign last year he averaged about 15 min and less with Frasier. We seem to think that rookies don't get the chance here, its not very different outside either. Look at philly with Hitchcock, its awfull. he plays Therrien instead of some of their good youngsters. We have already played a bunch of our youngsters, even if sometimes I'm mad about the way they are handled. I may be wrong but didn't Hejduk come at 23 years old? Look at Peter Sejna who's also 23, or even Jason King.

A lot of rookies aren't ready for NHl action, do you sincerely believe other youngsters will succeed where Hainsey and Hossa have failed if those youngsters have the same talent but are younger? Komisarek is the one thats ready, and he's here.

leave Higgins and Plekanec down.


EDIT: thx KILLger, I didn't reread my post.

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11-24-2003, 02:18 PM
  #23
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Hainsey did not play poorly. It's hard for an offensive defenceman to show his stuff when he's only playing 4:00 a night. And please, don't tell those low minutes were his fault.

We all agree that Hainsey has as much talent as anyone on our blueline (or, at least those of us who aren't jealous of him), and he has to be given a chance to showcase himself. Julien playing Bouillon 20:00 a night is not smart. I'm a big believer in playing for your teammates and wearing your heart on your sleeve the way Bouillon does, and that size doesn't matter, but we are a team that is going nowhere. Would it not be better for our young core of players and veterans to grow together? If we want a winning team, our players need to develop confidence in each others abilities, they need to know how their teammates play and react to certain situations, and they need to form a team as one.

The "rookies" need to learn from quality veterans, not Rudy's like Bouillon. Everybody is so against bringing in a talented veteran or two, but why? I'd love to see the kids play, but as we've seen through Hossa, Hainsey, and Komisarek (last season), throwing a boy into the line-up alongside crappy players does him no good. Chris Higgins isn't going to become a great player learning from Juneau. I'll give Mr. J credit, he's played well thus far and has been as important as Markov or Souray back on "D", but if Gainey has a chance to go out and grab a guy like Jeff Halpern, would that not be a great thing for Higgins? To learn from an outstanding, two way forward who may just be what we'll see from Chris? And what about Hainsey? We saw how well Craig Rivet performed with Jay Bouwmeester. Give Rivet a clean slate, drop the booing and the holllaring, and pair him with Hainsey. Let them play together, let them learn their styles, let them feed off of each other.

Komisarek could learn so much from playing on Souray's right. If there's anyone on the team who can hit a man, it's Souray. What exactly do we want Komisarek to be? Do we want him to float up and down throughout the minors, and not seeing his true dominance until he's wasted half his career, a la Chris Pronger, or do we want to see him step up, gain confidence, and learn the game from one of our talented veterans (whether it be Souray, or another).

Look at Ribeiro, he has worked hard to get where he is (and there's still plenty of work left for #71), but we can only be sure that guys like Koivu have really helped him to produce the way he is. Ribeiro is blessed with offensive instincts beyond belief, but watching Koivu, skating with Zednik, and playing the powerplay with Markov have surely helped his offensive game.

Ryder has really taken off, and that was all due to confidence. In Hamilton, he was given a chance to show his stuff and he did that exactly. Look at where he is now. Skating hard on the top line, all because we showed confidence in him, and even after a benching, Julien was not weary or hesitant in reinserting him into the lineup.

Jeff Jillson went from a poor San Jose team, to playing with Nick Boynton and Co. in Boston, look at how well the kid is playing. He's only a year older than Hainsey. Ribeiro, Ward and Ryder are both a little older than the rest, and so was Markov when they decided to let him play, so maybe it's only an age factor for the coaches. Whatever it is, though, the kids have to play if we want them to reach their potential. We've seen what Ryder, Ribiero, Ward, and even Hossa can do when they've got the confidence of their coaches and teammates. Give these guys a role, and some talented players, whether they're 38 or 25 (look at what Gilmour and Koivu have done for Zednik), and we will see no more surprises, bad surprises that is.

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11-24-2003, 02:21 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Nash13
Two seasons in a row now he has struggled, that is what is raising some red flags about him. He has shown NOTHING at the NHL in terms of offense that people have raved about. Doesn't it scare anyone that while on the ice, he is doing very little. Again, two years now, it doesn't make him a bust but you have to be concerned.

Komisarek had a great year in the AHL, and got an early call up for 21 games, and didn't look out of place as a 5-6 defenseman. This year, he struggled early, but has been the best dman for the Bulldogs as of late. You can at least see improvement.


Komo wasn't playing very well in Hamilton, at least in the few games I was at, and the last week or so he was pretty bad. In the last game he threw the puck right up the middle on the PK that almost resulted in a goal in a close divison game. The game before that he was a -2 and seemed to be struggling, until he scored the game winner in ot. I am surprised that Komo was called up, as I think he was having some difficulties. But it doesn't matter now, Komo is up, so we'll have to see what he does. I don't think he was the Dogs best defensemen, but I really can't say for sure. And I was really cocerned cause I didn't see much of an improvement in his game. But I guess Gainey did.

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11-24-2003, 02:23 PM
  #25
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It takes longer for a denfenceman to developpe. Jono,Chara etc. We cant give up just yet

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