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Does Colton Orr deserve a regular roster spot on the 4th line?

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have on the 4th line
Hossa 9 30.00%
Orr 11 36.67%
Neutral 3 10.00%
Doesn't matter Orts is coming back 7 23.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-03-2006, 05:17 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
It says nothing when Hollweg was hitting guys on every shift and got credit for 2.

It's an impossible stat to get accurate (and dude I study these stats like its my job)

Nobody hates Colton Orr we have all been annoyed by a certain poster who hasn't gone a day of posting on these boards without mentioning the guy. (no offense to anybody but that is the truth)

If Orr turns into something great if he doesn't big deal...
Who's that guy?

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11-05-2006, 10:42 AM
  #77
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You know, Orr isn't that much worse as a player than Andrew Peters. I wouldn't mind seeing Orr out there in place of Hossa.

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Old
11-06-2006, 11:49 AM
  #78
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Thge Rangers should trade Colton back to boston for Wade Brookbank!

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11-06-2006, 01:08 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
The bolded players are NOT enforcers. They are physical or defensive forwards. Some are more willing to fight than others also. And Derek Roy an enforcer? Oh man I was almost in tears reading that.

Orr is not nearly as good as any of the players you listed except a small select few.
Belak, Brookbank, Roy, Boulton, and Cowan are all "enforces" who can't do much else.

You really think Wade effin Brookbank can actually play hockey!?!??!?!?!?!

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11-06-2006, 01:11 PM
  #80
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No, and this is why I repeatedly called for signing Simon or Laraque over the summer.

This team needs a combination of toughness and scoring punch on the bottom two lines. Simon and Laraque bring that combination. Even if Simon doesn't as much as he used to, he can still generate a decent amount of offense just by using his size and physical play. The same for Laraque, who no one wants to fight.

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11-06-2006, 01:14 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Belak, Brookbank, Roy, Boulton, and Cowan are all "enforces" who can't do much else.

You really think Wade effin Brookbank can actually play hockey!?!??!?!?!?!
Can Colton Orr?

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Old
11-06-2006, 05:48 PM
  #82
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I don't see how he hurts the team when he is out there. I think he has good hockey sense, checking ability,and a decent shot. The players love him, and it must be nice to be a skill player and know if things get out of hand, he is more than capable of wrecking someones face. Orr is no worse than Hossas zeros across the board and minus seven rating. leave him as your fourth line right wing until their is a LEGIT reason to take him off. And that reason IMO is neither on the squad or in Hartford ( you don't give the Packs best players fourth line minutes.)


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Old
11-06-2006, 06:53 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
Can Colton Orr?
Yes, he showed he can in these past few games...still gonna disrespect him? Geez. Give the guy a break he's finally starting to break in as a 4th liner

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11-06-2006, 07:42 PM
  #84
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From my point of view Dawes isn't getting what he needs on the 4th line, and he needs to be sent down.

That leaves Hossa and Orr for a spot, and at this point I'm not sure that Hossa brings that much more than Orr. Sure Hossa is good for 2-3 minutes of killing each night, but it's not as if we don't have other guys capable of killing. I'm also sure that Orr is quite capable of being -7 or better through 6 or so minutes of even strength per game through 13 games. Now consider that Orr is capable of providing a spark with his physical play, and responding to acts of war from the likes of Tucker, Avery, etc.

I think he deserves more of an opportunity.

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11-06-2006, 07:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
From my point of view Dawes isn't getting what he needs on the 4th line, and he needs to be sent down.

That leaves Hossa and Orr for a spot, and at this point I'm not sure that Hossa brings that much more than Orr. Sure Hossa is good for 2-3 minutes of killing each night, but it's not as if we don't have other guys capable of killing. I'm also sure that Orr is quite capable of being -7 or better through 6 or so minutes of even strength per game through 13 games. Now consider that Orr is capable of providing a spark with his physical play, and responding to acts of war from the likes of Tucker, Avery, etc.

I think he deserves more of an opportunity.
More of one? He's getting plenty of an opportunity...just keep playing him

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11-06-2006, 08:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
More of one? He's getting plenty of an opportunity...just keep playing him
He's played 7 games and sometimes 2 minutes a game. I meant more opportunities to play and slightly more icetime.

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11-06-2006, 08:13 PM
  #87
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Is anyone watching the Sens-Caps game?

Donald Brashear was lined up against Chris Phillips inside of the Sens zone and gave him a hard hack after the draw. The whistle was blown because someone was cheating on the draw, but Neil immediately came across the ice and gave Brash a slight bump. About 15 seconds following the commencement of play Brian McGratton comes on the ice and goes straight for Brash, but Brash won't go.

This is the kind of coaching that the Rangers need in order to protect their players. It was smart, it was disciplined, and most of all it was EFFECTIVE. Neil didn't take a huge swing at the guy, just a little shoulder bump as he was skating back to his position. Likewise with McGratton he came on for his shift and waited until Brashear was near the puck before approaching him; Brashear denied and McGratton went off.

For those of you asking what purpose does a tough guy serve, it's this. Employed smartly it can be effective and no team does it better in this league than Ottawa.

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Old
11-06-2006, 08:16 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Is anyone watching the Sens-Caps game?

Donald Brashear was lined up against Chris Phillips inside of the Sens zone and gave him a hard hack after the draw. The whistle was blown because someone was cheating on the draw, but Neil immediately came across the ice and gave Brash a slight bump. About 15 seconds following the commencement of play Brian McGratton comes on the ice and goes straight for Brash, but Brash won't go.

This is the kind of coaching that the Rangers need in order to protect their players. It was smart, it was disciplined, and most of all it was EFFECTIVE. Neil didn't take a huge swing at the guy, just a little shoulder bump as he was skating back to his position. Likewise with McGratton he came on for his shift and waited until Brashear was near the puck before approaching him; Brashear denied and McGratton went off.

For those of you asking what purpose does a tough guy serve, it's this. Employed smartly it can be effective and no team does it better in this league than Ottawa.
Well said, Brashear will fight Phillips or Jason Smith...but not McGrattan

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11-06-2006, 08:25 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Is anyone watching the Sens-Caps game?

Donald Brashear was lined up against Chris Phillips inside of the Sens zone and gave him a hard hack after the draw. The whistle was blown because someone was cheating on the draw, but Neil immediately came across the ice and gave Brash a slight bump. About 15 seconds following the commencement of play Brian McGratton comes on the ice and goes straight for Brash, but Brash won't go.

This is the kind of coaching that the Rangers need in order to protect their players. It was smart, it was disciplined, and most of all it was EFFECTIVE. Neil didn't take a huge swing at the guy, just a little shoulder bump as he was skating back to his position. Likewise with McGratton he came on for his shift and waited until Brashear was near the puck before approaching him; Brashear denied and McGratton went off.

For those of you asking what purpose does a tough guy serve, it's this. Employed smartly it can be effective and no team does it better in this league than Ottawa.

And whats your point, that Phillips didn't have to fight or be subjected to Brashear hitting his pads with his stick?

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Old
11-06-2006, 08:26 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Well said, Brashear will fight Phillips or Jason Smith...but not McGrattan
You can add Colton Orr to the names of guys Brashear would fight......and beat....badly..

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11-06-2006, 08:48 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
You can add Colton Orr to the names of guys Brashear would fight......and beat....badly..
Uh, where do you figure?

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11-06-2006, 09:29 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Is anyone watching the Sens-Caps game?

Donald Brashear was lined up against Chris Phillips inside of the Sens zone and gave him a hard hack after the draw. The whistle was blown because someone was cheating on the draw, but Neil immediately came across the ice and gave Brash a slight bump. About 15 seconds following the commencement of play Brian McGratton comes on the ice and goes straight for Brash, but Brash won't go.

This is the kind of coaching that the Rangers need in order to protect their players. It was smart, it was disciplined, and most of all it was EFFECTIVE. Neil didn't take a huge swing at the guy, just a little shoulder bump as he was skating back to his position. Likewise with McGratton he came on for his shift and waited until Brashear was near the puck before approaching him; Brashear denied and McGratton went off.

For those of you asking what purpose does a tough guy serve, it's this. Employed smartly it can be effective and no team does it better in this league than Ottawa.

Unfortunately, Brashear is one of the few goons in the League that does this type of stuff to "regular" players.....For guys like Brashear, I agree that it's nice to have an Orr around..But that may happen only 10 times a year...And that's the only time we need an Orr.....But we habe no choice right now, Orr has to play...I'm just hoping that Sather and Maloney are looking for a 3rd/4th liner or two to replace these guys because, as it stands, we stand to get almost zero production out of the bottome two lines....This can't go on..

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Old
11-06-2006, 11:40 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
You can add Colton Orr to the names of guys Brashear would fight......and beat....badly..
Because you are a fight expert?? and before you ask yes i am. I have every single fight in the NHL since the 1975 season and I have complied one of if not the largest collection of fight DVD's in the world and listening to you speak on fighting makes my ears bleed. Brash and Colton went one time at the end of a long shift for ORR who was also not playing at the time but ever5 games. Orr is far from Fotiu but he is a face breaker as Godard and Roy and he busted Beleks nose pretty good also. I have seen Brash lose more then once .

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11-06-2006, 11:44 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Because you are a fight expert?? and before you ask yes i am. I have every single fight in the NHL since the 1975 season and I have complied one of if not the largest collection of fight DVD's in the world and listening to you speak on fighting makes my ears bleed. Brash and Colton went one time at the end of a long shift for ORR who was also not playing at the time but ever5 games. Orr is far from Fotiu but he is a face breaker as Godard and Roy and he busted Beleks nose pretty good also. I have seen Brash lose more then once .
Well now he's just gonna say he doesn't care, as usual, but the bottom line is if you don't care then why the heck did you post it in the first place? Oh because as per usual...you were trying to find the smallest little thing to jump on my case even though I thought that was over. Oh well...guess not, but again, another point of yours that made little sense

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11-07-2006, 12:37 AM
  #95
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I want Colton Orr to play regular minutes in a productive manner. Problem is he ISNT GOOD ENOUGH OF A HOCKEY PLAYER to play more than 4 minutes a freakin' game at ES.

If he was, fine, but he can't (or Renney believes that to be true). When he can do something other than play the occasional shift he can be a regular. You can't waste roster spots on guys that aren't going to play special teams.

Only one player on this roster can't play on special teams and his name is.... COLTON ORR. Even Cam Jannsen played on the PP for New Jersey.

If Colton improved his game to a point where Renney had faith in him in all situations we'd have a viable option with Colton Orr.

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11-07-2006, 12:47 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Because you are a fight expert?? and before you ask yes i am. I have every single fight in the NHL since the 1975 season and I have complied one of if not the largest collection of fight DVD's in the world and listening to you speak on fighting makes my ears bleed. Brash and Colton went one time at the end of a long shift for ORR who was also not playing at the time but ever5 games. Orr is far from Fotiu but he is a face breaker as Godard and Roy and he busted Beleks nose pretty good also. I have seen Brash lose more then once .

yawn...

besides your mailman and your mom who cares?

Well, I guess somebody needs to keep guys like Link Geatz and Tony Twist coming to card collector shows...

Honestly i could care less about the excuses you make for Orr losing to Brashear. The FACT is he lost a fight in game that we were all told he was dressing to "protect" our skill players.


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11-07-2006, 01:42 AM
  #97
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And whats your point, that Phillips didn't have to fight or be subjected to Brashear hitting his pads with his stick?
My point is that Brashear would have continued to bully Sens players had Neil or McGratton not sent a message to him.

If Orr dresses he plays 2-4 minutes a game, but those can be effective minutes. He's no less of a hockey player than Cam Janssen and anyone that has watched Cam play against the Rangers knows that he can intimidate the hell out of our guys and literally change the momentum of a game.

Also consider the value of 4 minutes to a guy like Orr compared to a guy like Hossa or Dawes - especially Dawes. I mean, what can Nigel from the bench: force the puck into the net with his Jedi mind-tricks? What has Hossa done with his 6 minutes of ES and 2 minutes of PK a night? Sure he won us a shootout but so did Marek Malik last year for crying out loud!

We've reached the point where Colton is probably our best option for those minutes; not just because we lack toughness and deterents, but because giving that ice time to any other player (whether it be Hossa or Dawes) isn't going to give you anything better (probably something worse) and it's also going to hurt the development of Nigel.

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11-07-2006, 07:48 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Is anyone watching the Sens-Caps game?

Donald Brashear was lined up against Chris Phillips inside of the Sens zone and gave him a hard hack after the draw. The whistle was blown because someone was cheating on the draw, but Neil immediately came across the ice and gave Brash a slight bump. About 15 seconds following the commencement of play Brian McGratton comes on the ice and goes straight for Brash, but Brash won't go.

This is the kind of coaching that the Rangers need in order to protect their players. It was smart, it was disciplined, and most of all it was EFFECTIVE. Neil didn't take a huge swing at the guy, just a little shoulder bump as he was skating back to his position. Likewise with McGratton he came on for his shift and waited until Brashear was near the puck before approaching him; Brashear denied and McGratton went off.

For those of you asking what purpose does a tough guy serve, it's this. Employed smartly it can be effective and no team does it better in this league than Ottawa.
Excellent post. Saw it live, and to me it is as plain as day as to why enforcers still play an important role. I really am confused that more people "on the Ranger board" don't see this It really was an interesting part of the game It must be great to be a skilled player on the Sens and have guys like Neil and Mcgratton like two pit-bulls on the bench glaring at anyone who even yaps too much.Watching Tucker a few weeks ago play a perimeter game while Neil and big Mac were prowling around had a greater entertainment factor for me then the game itself. I've always likes B Murray approach to tough hockey. Wasn't he the coach of the Red Wings during that whole Probert/Domi fiasco?? He was more pissed after Domi pounded Probert at the Garden then even Probert was. Brian Murray was also an expert at using Dale Hunter to scare the Bajeebers out of other teams top players. I know those days are gone in the "new NHL" but man those times were fun for me.

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11-07-2006, 07:58 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
I want Colton Orr to play regular minutes in a productive manner. Problem is he ISNT GOOD ENOUGH OF A HOCKEY PLAYER to play more than 4 minutes a freakin' game at ES.

If he was, fine, but he can't (or Renney believes that to be true). When he can do something other than play the occasional shift he can be a regular. You can't waste roster spots on guys that aren't going to play special teams.

Only one player on this roster can't play on special teams and his name is.... COLTON ORR. Even Cam Jannsen played on the PP for New Jersey.

If Colton improved his game to a point where Renney had faith in him in all situations we'd have a viable option with Colton Orr.
Dude all he really looks for from that final 4th line spot is some 4-5 minutes a game, he's got plenty of PKers and PPers...so Orr is fine

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11-07-2006, 08:00 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
My point is that Brashear would have continued to bully Sens players had Neil or McGratton not sent a message to him.

If Orr dresses he plays 2-4 minutes a game, but those can be effective minutes. He's no less of a hockey player than Cam Janssen and anyone that has watched Cam play against the Rangers knows that he can intimidate the hell out of our guys and literally change the momentum of a game.

Also consider the value of 4 minutes to a guy like Orr compared to a guy like Hossa or Dawes - especially Dawes. I mean, what can Nigel from the bench: force the puck into the net with his Jedi mind-tricks? What has Hossa done with his 6 minutes of ES and 2 minutes of PK a night? Sure he won us a shootout but so did Marek Malik last year for crying out loud!

We've reached the point where Colton is probably our best option for those minutes; not just because we lack toughness and deterents, but because giving that ice time to any other player (whether it be Hossa or Dawes) isn't going to give you anything better (probably something worse) and it's also going to hurt the development of Nigel.

To reiterate the point, I'm all for Dawes being here if he's going to be plaiyng valuable minutes but there is no need for him on the 4th line

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