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Old
11-03-2006, 08:54 AM
  #1
Mats88
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The Problem in Philly

DEFENCE!!! We should waive most of our defenceman and start back with a new crew!! Let's get rid of Hatcher, Rathje and Jones and make a trade for a good Defence and bring back the kids gone to the Phantoms. We will need to sacrifice one of our young stud foward in a trade, but it's the only way we will get better. With some stability at defence our offence should start producing. I still belive we can make the playoffs as long as we turn things around!!! That's my oppinion!

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11-03-2006, 09:12 AM
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So fresh. So inovative. So original and unique.

Why didn't we think of all of this before. Wow, bless you man. Thanks for helping us figure out what the team is having problems with. We really didn't know.

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11-03-2006, 09:22 AM
  #3
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I could argue that the lack of secondary scoring is a bigger weakness then our defense. Also Nitty and Esche have not be all that good this year...and no it's not all on the defense...you need a goalie to come up big and bail out your team every once and a while and neither has done it yet. The problem is the whole team is lazy in thier own end, the goaltending is not where it should be and nobody besides Forsberg and Gagne can score on this team.

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11-03-2006, 10:44 AM
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the defense sucked real bad at first but i think it improved a lot (still a weakness). we give up high goal totals because we get behind and at that point your forced to try and make things happen, and it ends up back in your own net more often then not. if this team could score it would take a lot of pressure off of the blueliners

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11-04-2006, 10:55 AM
  #5
jfc64
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Is this realistic?

Reuniting Huselius, Morrison and Knuble? From the SEL...signing Leetch.

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Huselius-Morrison-Knuble (we will get scoring from these guys)
Robitaille-Richards-Carter
Eager-Murray-Kapanen

Pitkänen-Rathje
Leetch-Hamrlik
Hatcher-Meyer

Gone: Calder, Umberger, Gagne, Gauthier

Added: Huselius, Hamrlik and Morrison plus 3 more millions in cap space. If our firstrounder survives this I'd be happy too.

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11-04-2006, 11:02 AM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
Is this realistic?

Reuniting Huselius, Morrison and Knuble? From the SEL...signing Leetch.

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Huselius-Morrison-Knuble (we will get scoring from these guys)
Robitaille-Richards-Carter
Eager-Murray-Kapanen

Pitkänen-Rathje
Leetch-Hamrlik
Hatcher-Meyer

Gone: Calder, Umberger, Gagne, Gauthier

Added: Huselius, Hamrlik and Morrison plus 3 more millions in cap space. If our firstrounder survives this I'd be happy too.
Sorry but no.


Gagne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huselius/Morrison

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11-04-2006, 11:29 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Sorry but no.


Gagne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huselius/Morrison
Hmm let me see, 1 or 2 good lines... hmm, tough one...

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11-04-2006, 12:38 PM
  #8
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10 ways to fix the Flyers

http://www.courierpostonline.com/app...611040371/1017

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11-04-2006, 01:13 PM
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I actually agree with most of that. I like the fact the he mentioned Knuble as a replacement captain and not Richards. Through last year and this year Knuble has been the greatest example of effort on the ice.

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11-04-2006, 01:17 PM
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I actually agree with most of that. I like the fact the he mentioned Knuble as a replacement captain and not Richards. Through last year and this year Knuble has been the greatest example of effort on the ice.
I'll second that - Knuble doesn't seem to get much respect around here, but I think he's been one of the most consistent Flyers since his arrival.

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11-04-2006, 01:30 PM
  #11
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I'll second that - Knuble doesn't seem to get much respect around here, but I think he's been one of the most consistent Flyers since his arrival.

thats what i've been telling my friends, they reply with " your just a knuble knob gobbler"

anyways we need to seriously do something, and im sure blaming it on the buildings taller then city hall just isn't cutting it anymore.

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11-04-2006, 01:43 PM
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I'll second that - Knuble doesn't seem to get much respect around here, but I think he's been one of the most consistent Flyers since his arrival.
I agree as well! Great ideas from Chuck!

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11-04-2006, 01:51 PM
  #13
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Just retarded... So Forsberg doesn't give effort? Bloody hell!?

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11-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
Hmm let me see, 1 or 2 good lines... hmm, tough one...
I responded kinda quick earlier, but here is my detailed assessment of this trade.

Not sure the details in who goes to what team here but the net effect is this:

Gone:

Gagne - 26 year old top LW in the league with potential for 50 goals, and one of the best defensive forwards in the league. Did I mention he was only 26????

Umberger - 24 year old 6'2" center that scored 20 goals in his rookie year. Is sure to be a very good third liner, with potential to be a good 2nd liner and can play all forward positions.

Kyle Calder - 27 year old winger - Potential to score 25 goals and 60 points. Obviously playing like poop at the moment. Not as concerned about him as the others, but the thing not mentioned about him is unless we get something of value for him in a trade, which I doubt, his salary is off the books after this year and gives us $3 million in cap flexibility for next year.

Getting:

Morrison - 31 year old center with this year and next year left on his contract. Less points then Gagne at the moment. Has not done much since his line with Naslund and Bertuzzi has been taken apart. A playmaker who needs a really good goal scorer and gritty guy on his wings. He has hit 70 points once in his career while playing on a #1 line with stars for the past couple years.

Huselius - 27 year old LW who has been invisible for half his career, never scored more then 23 goals, Umberger scored 20 in his rookie year. Is known for not playing very hard night in night out, unlike Gagne and Umberger. Plays around with the puck too much and is not necessarily a good finisher.

Hamrlik - 32 year old Dman who is often hurt and never lived up to his potential (arguably 2 years in his career worth a first rounder and his salaray) and comes with a hefty contract that we do not need at this point.

And then that is topped off by signing Grandpa Leetch.

This is bad for the Flyers IMO. Not only is Gagne himself greater then Morrison and Huselius, you now have Carter on the 3rd line RW. I think it has become evident that this guy is more comfortable at center. You are relying on an older LW on your top line. You have added another billion dollar contract to the defense. And this trade is seriously bad for the Flyers in the way of work ethic. Huselius, Morrison and Hamrlik are all players who like to dissappear for stretches of the season. At least with Umberger and Gagne, when they are not scoring you are getting an honest effort out of both of them and good two way play.

Finally, didnt the attempt with Calder Richards Carter show that just because a line had chemistry outside of the NHL doesnt mean it will work in the NHL.

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11-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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On the one hand he says we need a clean break from the past and should fire Holmgren, on the other he wants to keep Stevens and hire Hitch as the new GM? Personally I think a good deal of the problem stems from Hitchcock's inability to adapt as much as Clarke's.

I like the idea of Hextall as GM though.

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11-04-2006, 02:07 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
On the one hand he says we need a clean break from the past and should fire Holmgren, on the other he wants to keep Stevens and hire Hitch as the new GM? Personally I think a good deal of the problem stems from Hitchcock's inability to adapt as much as Clarke's.

I like the idea of Hextall as GM though.
What makes you say Hitch couldnt adapt? He had to work with the players he was given. Someone as smart as he is can adapt to anything if given more then 8 games and the right players.

Remember. He took this team to 100 points last year with a billion games lost to injury and a bunch of guys on defense that most people on this board do not feel belong in the NHL. Give the guy the credit he deserves.

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11-04-2006, 02:59 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Sorry but no.


Gagne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huselius/Morrison
Agree with your partial analysis but we get more than Huselius and Morrison. We get better balance on defence with Hamrlik (we get rid of one dinosaur) and more cap space which we can use to aquire players. And if we fail PO there's no need to have Gagne for the build-up.

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11-04-2006, 03:47 PM
  #18
jfc64
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I responded kinda quick earlier, but here is my detailed assessment of this trade.

Not sure the details in who goes to what team here but the net effect is this:

Gone:

Gagne - 26 year old top LW in the league with potential for 50 goals, and one of the best defensive forwards in the league. Did I mention he was only 26????

Umberger - 24 year old 6'2" center that scored 20 goals in his rookie year. Is sure to be a very good third liner, with potential to be a good 2nd liner and can play all forward positions.

Kyle Calder - 27 year old winger - Potential to score 25 goals and 60 points. Obviously playing like poop at the moment. Not as concerned about him as the others, but the thing not mentioned about him is unless we get something of value for him in a trade, which I doubt, his salary is off the books after this year and gives us $3 million in cap flexibility for next year.

Getting:

Morrison - 31 year old center with this year and next year left on his contract. Less points then Gagne at the moment. Has not done much since his line with Naslund and Bertuzzi has been taken apart. A playmaker who needs a really good goal scorer and gritty guy on his wings. He has hit 70 points once in his career while playing on a #1 line with stars for the past couple years.

Huselius - 27 year old LW who has been invisible for half his career, never scored more then 23 goals, Umberger scored 20 in his rookie year. Is known for not playing very hard night in night out, unlike Gagne and Umberger. Plays around with the puck too much and is not necessarily a good finisher.

Hamrlik - 32 year old Dman who is often hurt and never lived up to his potential (arguably 2 years in his career worth a first rounder and his salaray) and comes with a hefty contract that we do not need at this point.

And then that is topped off by signing Grandpa Leetch.

This is bad for the Flyers IMO. Not only is Gagne himself greater then Morrison and Huselius, you now have Carter on the 3rd line RW. I think it has become evident that this guy is more comfortable at center. You are relying on an older LW on your top line. You have added another billion dollar contract to the defense. And this trade is seriously bad for the Flyers in the way of work ethic. Huselius, Morrison and Hamrlik are all players who like to dissappear for stretches of the season. At least with Umberger and Gagne, when they are not scoring you are getting an honest effort out of both of them and good two way play.

Finally, didnt the attempt with Calder Richards Carter show that just because a line had chemistry outside of the NHL doesnt mean it will work in the NHL.

It's hard to alter defense chemistry on this team. Getting rid of Gauthier is good. Calder almost as well. Adding 2-3 million in cap space is good. Sure Gagne is more than the sum of Morrison and Huselius. I'd love to have Gagne on this team, but the possibility to add a similar forward at the same price on the UFA market makes him less appealing on a one year horizon. Morrison and Huselius are proven scorers, Carter is not, at this level. Hamrlik's upside is good. Work ethic...Huselius wouldn't dare sleep on his shift being near Forsberg. Adding Leetch at a reasonably low cost pairing him with Hamrlik etc might give a whole new dimension to our defense. Might even spark Rathje and Pitkänen. Leaving Hatcher to take care of less for 12 min a game. OK, Carter might be playing better at centre. He might also play great RW with Sanderson and Forsberg...Finally, I don't believe in Umberger, nor Kesler (thank God). Good comments from you, though. My suggestion is maybe a bit risky. But 30 games from now, something need to be done if we have a chance to reach PO. I tried to adjust or two problems. Second line scoring and offense from the defense to aid our forwards. If this doesn't sound appealing to you, maybe our GM can squeeze something more out of this

PS. I almost get the feeling Forsberg has gotten insurance that he will play with Gagne. Strange that separating the two seldom occured.

Light suggestion:

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Gagne-Morrison-Knuble
Robitaille-Richards-Carter
Eager-Murray-Kapanen

Pitkänen-Rathje
Meyer-Hamrlik
Hatcher-Jonsson...Jones


Added: Hamrlik and Morrison

Gone: Gauthier and Calder.

We might even be able to keep Umberger. But getting rid of Gauthier and add a PLAYER is a priority. Might not even have to trade for Morrison then so I suggest a two step plan: Defender first and soon. Then we'll see.

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Old
11-04-2006, 04:29 PM
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Why do you want to put Forsberg with two average players on the first line?

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11-04-2006, 07:22 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
It's hard to alter defense chemistry on this team. Getting rid of Gauthier is good. Calder almost as well. Adding 2-3 million in cap space is good. Sure Gagne is more than the sum of Morrison and Huselius. I'd love to have Gagne on this team, but the possibility to add a similar forward at the same price on the UFA market makes him less appealing on a one year horizon. Morrison and Huselius are proven scorers, Carter is not, at this level. Hamrlik's upside is good. Work ethic...Huselius wouldn't dare sleep on his shift being near Forsberg. Adding Leetch at a reasonably low cost pairing him with Hamrlik etc might give a whole new dimension to our defense. Might even spark Rathje and Pitkänen. Leaving Hatcher to take care of less for 12 min a game. OK, Carter might be playing better at centre. He might also play great RW with Sanderson and Forsberg...Finally, I don't believe in Umberger, nor Kesler (thank God). Good comments from you, though. My suggestion is maybe a bit risky. But 30 games from now, something need to be done if we have a chance to reach PO. I tried to adjust or two problems. Second line scoring and offense from the defense to aid our forwards. If this doesn't sound appealing to you, maybe our GM can squeeze something more out of this

PS. I almost get the feeling Forsberg has gotten insurance that he will play with Gagne. Strange that separating the two seldom occured.

Light suggestion:

Sanderson-Forsberg-Ruzicka
Gagne-Morrison-Knuble
Robitaille-Richards-Carter
Eager-Murray-Kapanen

Pitkänen-Rathje
Meyer-Hamrlik
Hatcher-Jonsson...Jones


Added: Hamrlik and Morrison

Gone: Gauthier and Calder.

We might even be able to keep Umberger. But getting rid of Gauthier and add a PLAYER is a priority. Might not even have to trade for Morrison then so I suggest a two step plan: Defender first and soon. Then we'll see.
How are we getting Morrison and Hamrlik here? Just for Umberger and Calder? I doubt we can do that, but anyway.

I think you have some good ideas, just maybe not the right players. I dont see any upside in a 32 year old dman who has been beat up and injured or played like a 4th rounder as opposed to the 1st rounder he is most of his career. And I dont necessarily call someone whose best 3 seasons are 23, 20 an 20 goals as a proven goal scorer. If we are replacing Gagne (45 goals) with a 30 goal scorer but getting a stud #2 or 3# dman in addition to that, I may start to think about it.

Just not for the players you mentioned.

Not to be a broken record, but we arent talking about any of this if Richards, Carter, Umberger, Calder were doing half of what was expected of them. I dont think we should necessarily lose a Gagne just because our young players are not doing their job.

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11-04-2006, 07:43 PM
  #21
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Philly needs to purge the whole bobby clarke experience from the organization so kick Paul Holmgren to the curb asap.

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11-04-2006, 08:17 PM
  #22
mikedifr
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I FOUND THE SOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!


Before the game starts, have the scoreboard set to 4-0 in favor of the Flyer's opponent. That is the only time they seem to wake up.

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11-04-2006, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I FOUND THE SOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!


Before the game starts, have the scoreboard set to 4-0 in favor of the Flyer's opponent. That is the only time they seem to wake up.
sadly I don't think it has anything to do with the flyers "waking up" just that the other team starts sitting back

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11-04-2006, 08:34 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Flyguy_1ca View Post
sadly I don't think it has anything to do with the flyers "waking up" just that the other team starts sitting back


Come on, cut me some slack. Im trying really hard here, geez.

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11-04-2006, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats88 View Post
DEFENCE!!! We should waive most of our defenceman and start back with a new crew!! Let's get rid of Hatcher, Rathje and Jones and make a trade for a good Defence and bring back the kids gone to the Phantoms. We will need to sacrifice one of our young stud foward in a trade, but it's the only way we will get better. With some stability at defence our offence should start producing. I still belive we can make the playoffs as long as we turn things around!!! That's my oppinion!
While I agree that there is an issue with defense, I don't think you're looking in the right direction. The Flyers have always had the one consistent veteran on the back end to stabilize the group. In the seventies, they had Dupont, Van Impe and Watson. In the eighties, they had Howe. In the nineties, the Flyers had Desjardins, Therien and to a lesser extent Johnsson. Now if you look at the roster of today, we have no one that can be counted on to act as a consistent veteran presence for the kids to follow.

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