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Old
11-07-2006, 02:45 PM
  #26
doublejack
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
no its not. if it was, they wouldn't put themselves on the line like they do... you really telling me you can watch a playoff hockey game -- where they're not getting paid -- and think, "they play because of the money."

BS... that's an incredibly cynical point of view, and it avoids the fact that in order to MAKE IT as a professional athlete you need to have a competitive desire that the average person cannot understand in their personal experience. there are a ton of people with the same speed, size, skill, strength, etc. in the world... these guys are physically special, but most of them are not complete freaks of nature. it's that something else that allows them to succeed.

more to the point... if money was a "primary motivation," then there is really no reason for Hatcher to put his health on the line to play in the AHL and risk long-term injury when he's got a boatload sitting in the bank.

there are a lot of people that have the primary motivation of money in the world... they don't last 10 years in professional sports, however.
I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. If what you said were actually true then we'd never see players holding out. But they do hold out, and it's because $$$ is more important than playing. Players are even willing to cancel entire seasons to get their $$$.

Look, professional athletes do love what they're doing, save for a few exceptions. But love of the game isn't what drives a majority of them at the professional level. And most love winning and want to win, but winning doesn't pay the bills. You've got a very idealistic view of the sporting world. I do wish you were right, but the hard truth is that at the core of it all, money drives everything.

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11-07-2006, 02:54 PM
  #27
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Did you hear what Bondra had to say?

What kind of life would you rather have $15m in the bank and retiring and spending time with your family or $20m and spending 2 and a half years slumming it riding the coaches in the AHL and risking damaging your knees even further?

You are talking about the Bobby Holiks of this world, I dont think everyone is like that as proven by Bondras comments.

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11-07-2006, 02:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. If what you said were actually true then we'd never see players holding out. But they do hold out, and it's because $$$ is more important than playing. Players are even willing to cancel entire seasons to get their $$$.

Look, professional athletes do love what they're doing, save for a few exceptions. But love of the game isn't what drives a majority of them at the professional level. And most love winning and want to win, but winning doesn't pay the bills. You've got a very idealistic view of the sporting world. I do wish you were right, but the hard truth is that at the core of it all, money drives everything.
the mistake you're making is the job aspect... i try to get the most out of my boss (when i'm working and not in school), so do they. the difference is that they have a lot more leverage to work with than the normal person... however, people apply pressure in ALL financial compensation negotiations. players also have people they PAY to advise them in financial matters and they place great trust in those agents to do the best for them.

i'm not saying money isn't an important factor... money is an important factor to anyone doing any job. that is the same for someone playing sports as it is for the guy building a house. they simply make more so you attach some kind of crazy motivation attached to it... they play hockey, and get paid to play hockey.

winning DOES pay the bills dude... your team wins, you look better... you look better, you, theoretically, get paid better... you play better... your team has a better chance to win... it all works together.

that being said... you need to have more than the desire to make cash to succeed at this level of sports. it's obviously a factor in their lives, but that isn't what drives people to a level of success in professional sports.

you may call that idealism, i call it not being blinded by the fact that they make absurd amounts of money. i call it witnessing the sacrifice these guys are willing to make... and the health risks they take by playing this sport.

you really telling me the NFL players that succeed are driven by the cash? it's a proven fact that the sport literally takes years off of their life. these guys are driven by playing the game at the highest competitive level... the money is there when they get there, but it's much more than that.

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11-07-2006, 03:02 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L View Post
Did you hear what Bondra had to say?

What kind of life would you rather have $15m in the bank and retiring and spending time with your family or $20m and spending 2 and a half years slumming it riding the coaches in the AHL and risking damaging your knees even further?

You are talking about the Bobby Holiks of this world, I dont think everyone is like that as proven by Bondras comments.
There are definitely athletes that aren't in it for the money. Barry Sanders, the former Detroit Lion, is an excellent example. Barry just walked away while he was on top, leaving millions of dollars on the field. He also gave 10% of his income to his church while he was playing.

But those are the exceptions. I am very sure Hatcher would play in the AHL to collect his salary.

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11-07-2006, 03:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
the mistake you're making is the job aspect... i try to get the most out of my boss (when i'm working and not in school), so do they. the difference is that they have a lot more leverage to work with than the normal person... however, people apply pressure in ALL financial compensation negotiations. players also have people they PAY to advise them in financial matters and they place great trust in those agents to do the best for them.

i'm not saying money isn't an important factor... money is an important factor to anyone doing any job. that is the same for someone playing sports as it is for the guy building a house. they simply make more so you attach some kind of crazy motivation attached to it... they play hockey, and get paid to play hockey.

winning DOES pay the bills dude... your team wins, you look better... you look better, you, theoretically, get paid better... you play better... your team has a better chance to win... it all works together.

that being said... you need to have more than the desire to make cash to succeed at this level of sports. it's obviously a factor in their lives, but that isn't what drives people to a level of success in professional sports.

you may call that idealism, i call it not being blinded by the fact that they make absurd amounts of money. i call it witnessing the sacrifice these guys are willing to make... and the health risks they take by playing this sport.

you really telling me the NFL players that succeed are driven by the cash? it's a proven fact that the sport literally takes years off of their life. these guys are driven by playing the game at the highest competitive level... the money is there when they get there, but it's much more than that.
You make a lot of excellent points. But there just isn't a big difference between playing in the NHL for 3.5M a year vs. playing in the AHL for 3.5M a year. Either way it's pro hockey with a lot of travel, and a fat paycheck. I just don't see where being waived would cause Hatcher to retire.

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11-07-2006, 03:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
You make a lot of excellent points. But there just isn't a big difference between playing in the NHL for 3.5M a year vs. playing in the AHL for 3.5M a year. Either way it's pro hockey with a lot of travel, and a fat paycheck. I just don't see where being waived would cause Hatcher to retire.
big difference between the "show," and riding a bus to Norfolk, Va... not to mention the pride factor of "i'm better than this..." plus the issue of what's the point other than making more money, which you already have more than enough of. you're not playing for the Cup anymore... and you're risking serious injury to play.

i think it's a massive difference.

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11-07-2006, 03:42 PM
  #32
Art Vandelay
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Carter out for 6 weeks makes this look less like a cap/$$$ related move.

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11-07-2006, 04:52 PM
  #33
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This may be a dumb question, but if Hatch gets sent done how much of his salary goes against the cap. What if he retires?

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11-07-2006, 05:02 PM
  #34
Dig Out Your Soul
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Originally Posted by Lion of the North View Post
Carter out for 6 weeks makes this look less like a cap/$$$ related move.
I agree. I think Nedved might play for the Flyers again.

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11-07-2006, 05:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I agree. I think Nedved might play for the Flyers again.
tim p is saying that if nedved clears waivers he will replace carter, which is the reason for recalling him...if someone plucks him off waivers, then its a bonus

" The Flyers put Petr Nedved through re-entry waivers to replace Jeff Carter (broke bone/left ankle).

If Nedved clears waivers tomorrow, he will rejoin the Flyers."

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=3560

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11-07-2006, 05:52 PM
  #36
RoDu
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Time to brake ou tmy "say no to Nedved" avatar

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Old
11-07-2006, 05:53 PM
  #37
Dig Out Your Soul
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Time to brake ou tmy "say no to Nedved" avatar
Haha, I've been missing that one.

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11-07-2006, 05:54 PM
  #38
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Time to brake ou tmy "say no to Nedved" avatar

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Old
11-07-2006, 07:08 PM
  #39
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erm... he has a family to return to... and a TON of cash in the bank/investments if he hasn't been a complete moron in his spending. you're right, he won't see money like that again, but that's not really the point.

i would bet he'd play out this year if he was waived and then move on with his life if he was going to be sitting in the AHL for 2 more years. obviously 7M is a ton of cash, and it isn't all that easy to walk away from...

the money really shouldn't matter to Hatcher.

additional note: according to wiki he owns a bar in Michigan. he has something to do.

These guys never ever have enough money. Otherwise, Warren Buffett would have retired $7 billion dollars ago. He is not trained to do anything, and I am positive his little bar in Michigan doesn't bring in a whole lot of dough. If he decides to retire and forego that money, he is even dumber than I always thought.

And that's saying something.

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11-07-2006, 07:41 PM
  #40
Jester
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These guys never ever have enough money. Otherwise, Warren Buffett would have retired $7 billion dollars ago. He is not trained to do anything, and I am positive his little bar in Michigan doesn't bring in a whole lot of dough. If he decides to retire and forego that money, he is even dumber than I always thought.

And that's saying something.
you clearly know nothing about Buffet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

Quote:
Despite his immense wealth, Buffett is famous for his unpretentious and frugal lifestyle. When he spent $6.7 million of Berkshire's funds on a corporate jet in 1989, he jokingly named it "The Indefensible" because of his past criticisms of such purchases by other CEOs.[5] He continues to live in the same house in central Omaha he bought in 1958 for $31,500,[6] in the Dundee neighborhood (although he also owns a summer house in Laguna Beach, California). His annual salary of $100,000[1] is very modest by the standards of senior executive remuneration in other S&P 500 companies, which averaged about $9 million in 2003.[7] Recently he revealed that his salary is tied to the price of Berkshire Hathaway Class A stocks, joking that this was part of the reason why he chose to never split the stock.[8]
is also in the process of giving away all of his money... and feels there should be a steep inheritance tax because he dislikes the concept of wealth being passed down through family lines. people should have to earn it.

man just likes what he does and is incredibly good at it... it isn't about the money.

as far as the dumber than you thought... do you think Tiki Barber is an idiot for retiring when he has more than a few years left in him? what about the fact that there is a very real chance of suffering a horrible injury playing this sport? just last year a NHL player broke his neck in a game... Berard almost losing his eye... how about rather than plugging away in the minor leagues for a trophy you don't really care about, you go and be a father during the winter for the first time in your life? i guess that's dumb.

what's dumb is playing a sport like hockey or football for the money when the consequences are so high. those guys are out there for the love of the game and competing at the highest level. the AHL isn't the highest level, and if i had the success that Hatcher has had, as well as being financially viable... i would walk away with my head high. i'm not saying i'd begrudge him the right to keep playing, i'm just saying there is a) no shame in it; b) it is not a bad/dumb decision; and c) it's what i'd kinda expect from someone with his personality.

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