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Old
11-14-2006, 08:23 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Wow. You have been misinformed about a lot here. Forsberg has not said anything about wanting to leave Philly (although rumors abound that he might be dealt by the trade deadline), and our goaltending has been the least bad part of our season thus far. You were right about two things, though: 1) The Flyers probably will not make the playoffs; and 2) most if not all of us will hate this deal. I know I do already. Allow me to retort with my own.

To ANA:
Peter Forsberg
Robert Esche
Randy Jones

To PHI:
Iyla Bryzgalov
Andy McDonald
Mark Mitera
1st rounder 2007
We don't have a 1st in '07. Even without the 1st, it's still a definite no.

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11-14-2006, 08:26 PM
  #27
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I think Forsberg will ultimately be moved. Yes, we all know that Lukko, Snider, Holmgren and Forsberg have all said that he doesn't want to leave Philadelphia and he's going to resign in the offseason, the fact of the matter is that the window of opportunity to win a Stanley Cup in Philadelphia expired after the lockout.

With that being said, now is the time to blow things up and start from scratch. With the way free agency is going now, you should be able to build a competitive team within 2 to 3 years. Drafting is going to be more important than ever, but with the salary cap and liberal free agency in place, there's no reason anyone should be a cellar dwellar for much longer than 2 or 3 years.

Personally, I'd like to see Forsberg get us that workhorse goaltender that can start 65 to 70 games a year and a young defenseman. I also wouldn't mind seeing a big organizational shakeup in terms of a trade and see what someone like a Pitkanen can bring back in return.

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11-14-2006, 08:30 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
No 1st from Ana, Edmonton has it. Why would you want Mark Mitera? Another stay at home defenseman without a lot of speed? He may be included for value but I dont think he is what Philly is looking for.
From what I've read, Mitera is a very good skater, although not very fleet of foot. He has good size and a good shot, too. He won't make our squad right away, so this is not a big deal. Mikkelson would probably work, too. The Flyers actually do not have many defensemen with size in the pipeline right now. Picard is fairly big, but Bartulis, Timonen, Ratchuk, etc. are small-to-average. We need more legit defensive prospects, so I would hope Forsberg would go for at least a potential top 4 guy and a 1st.

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11-14-2006, 08:32 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I think Forsberg will ultimately be moved. Yes, we all know that Lukko, Snider, Holmgren and Forsberg have all said that he doesn't want to leave Philadelphia and he's going to resign in the offseason, the fact of the matter is that the window of opportunity to win a Stanley Cup in Philadelphia expired after the lockout.

With that being said, now is the time to blow things up and start from scratch. With the way free agency is going now, you should be able to build a competitive team within 2 to 3 years. Drafting is going to be more important than ever, but with the salary cap and liberal free agency in place, there's no reason anyone should be a cellar dwellar for much longer than 2 or 3 years.

Personally, I'd like to see Forsberg get us that workhorse goaltender that can start 65 to 70 games a year and a young defenseman. I also wouldn't mind seeing a big organizational shakeup in terms of a trade and see what someone like a Pitkanen can bring back in return.
I would agree with everything here except putting Pitkanen on the block.

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11-14-2006, 08:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I would agree with everything here except putting Pitkanen on the block.
See, I think everyone has been aboard the Pitkanen bandwagon for so long that really, what has he done during his time in Philadelphia? I know that you shouldn't really give up on players too soon, but Pitkanen is at a point now where he has to stop living off reputation and start putting together consistency in his performance. That's just me though.

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11-14-2006, 09:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
See, I think everyone has been aboard the Pitkanen bandwagon for so long that really, what has he done during his time in Philadelphia? I know that you shouldn't really give up on players too soon, but Pitkanen is at a point now where he has to stop living off reputation and start putting together consistency in his performance. That's just me though.
Trading Pitkanen when his value is at its lowest (as it is now) would be one of the stupidest moves the Flyers can pull. The fact is that he played well last season, and young players don't suddenly lose their ability like that. He's in a hole and we should be patient.


Last edited by Norm MacDonald: 11-14-2006 at 09:47 PM.
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Old
11-14-2006, 09:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
Trading Pitkanen when his value is at it lowest (as it is now) would be one of the stupidest moves the Flyers can pull. The fact is that he played well last season, and young players don't suddenly lose their ability like that. He's in a hole and we should be patient.

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Old
11-14-2006, 09:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
An aquaintance of mine that works for the Pens in the communications department told me that Forseberg is being traded to Anaheim...take that with a grain of salt obviously. I think that some of you might be over-valuing Pete though with the set of circumstances that the Flyers now find themselves. Forseberg probably isnt happy about being in Philly right now. The Flyers are probably not going to make the playoffs. The goaltending is bad, and Forseberg will probably leave during the offseason. I could easily see this:

Marchant + Bryzgalov + Mikkelson

for

Forseberg + Esche.

Most if not all of you will hate this, but the with the set of circumstances that have been handed down it isnt inconceiveable.
I quit hockey if this trade becomes reality.

It's absolutely ****ing disgusting.

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11-14-2006, 09:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Wow. You have been misinformed about a lot here. Forsberg has not said anything about wanting to leave Philly (although rumors abound that he might be dealt by the trade deadline), and our goaltending has been the least bad part of our season thus far. You were right about two things, though: 1) The Flyers probably will not make the playoffs; and 2) most if not all of us will hate this deal. I know I do already. Allow me to retort with my own.

To ANA:
Peter Forsberg
Robert Esche
Randy Jones

To PHI:
Iyla Bryzgalov
Andy McDonald
Mark Mitera
1st rounder 2007
No,no,no,no,no,no

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Old
11-14-2006, 09:46 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDuck View Post
No,no,no,no,no,no
I can understand why you wouldn't want to make that trade, but, I guarantee you, the original offer was just as bad to a Flyers fan, if not worse. Peter Forsberg and a backup-level goalie for a 1A goalie, Todd Marchant, and a decent defensive prospect? Come on. Look at the Weight trade. There is no reason to deal Forsberg now when he would fetch way more later.

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11-14-2006, 10:23 PM
  #36
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I agree you do not want to trade Pitkanen when his value is at its lowest, and I do not want to trade him at all. Dmen, especially offensive dmen usually take a little longer to develop then forwards or stay at home dmen. He is only 23 years old!

On another note someone mentioned why would we want Mitera from anaheim cause he is a stay at home guy?

Actually, I think any trade we make for a defenseman, we should be looking for stay at home dmen. Other then Picard, who appears to be a good steady two way dman, all of our defensive prospects like Bartilus, Jonnson, Ratchuk and someone like Meyer all have offensive skill. We need the young stay at home defensemen to complement them.

Assuming Pitkanen turns around, and Jonnson is what we think he can be, we need some physical stay at home dmen to complement them.

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11-14-2006, 10:30 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I agree you do not want to trade Pitkanen when his value is at its lowest, and I do not want to trade him at all. Dmen, especially offensive dmen usually take a little longer to develop then forwards or stay at home dmen. He is only 23 years old!

On another note someone mentioned why would we want Mitera from anaheim cause he is a stay at home guy?

Actually, I think any trade we make for a defenseman, we should be looking for stay at home dmen. Other then Picard, who appears to be a good steady two way dman, all of our defensive prospects like Bartilus, Jonnson, Ratchuk and someone like Meyer all have offensive skill. We need the young stay at home defensemen to complement them.

Assuming Pitkanen turns around, and Jonnson is what we think he can be, we need some physical stay at home dmen to complement them.

This was my point. A big, physical defenseman with above-average skating is a rare thing for most teams. I'd like to see a nice mix of Jonsson and Meyer-type guys, and bigger, stronger defensemen who are not slow as molasses. If Rathje didn't blow goats this year, think how much better our D would be.

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11-14-2006, 10:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
This was my point. A big, physical defenseman with above-average skating is a rare thing for most teams. I'd like to see a nice mix of Jonsson and Meyer-type guys, and bigger, stronger defensemen who are not slow as molasses. If Rathje didn't blow goats this year, think how much better our D would be.
My NHL 2007 Flyers defense lineup (finished this season 41-41, now playing 07-08 season):

Pitkanen Vaananen
Phillips Jonnson
Picard Meyer
Gauthier

Signed Phillips from Ottawa as a FA
Traded for Vaananen
I waived both Hatcher and Rathje

This is what I think the Flyers need to do. Two top notch offensive guys in Jonnson and Pitkanen. Vaananen is a stay at home guy to play with Pitakanen. Chris Phillips is a good two way guy to play with Jonnson and the third pairing is balanced. Phillips and Vaananen are physical enough and Gauthier comes in when we really need it.

I know it is only a computer game, but this is actually pretty realistic, or something along these lines anyway

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11-14-2006, 11:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I can understand why you wouldn't want to make that trade, but, I guarantee you, the original offer was just as bad to a Flyers fan, if not worse. Peter Forsberg and a backup-level goalie for a 1A goalie, Todd Marchant, and a decent defensive prospect? Come on. Look at the Weight trade. There is no reason to deal Forsberg now when he would fetch way more later.
Don't you ever call Bryz a 1A goalie! He is a young guy with playoff experience, something the Flyguys could use. Niittymaki is probably the future face of the Flyguys, if not all goaltending in the east, so I couldn't see you guys wanting Bryz, but Bryz would be a great pick-up for any team. He can produce right now, and is a shoe in to be one of the best goalies in a few years. As a Duck fan I would hate to see Bryz go, but the talk around town sounds like he will probably go. Try a deal with Giigy. My fellow Duck fans will hate me for it now, but I would much rather get ride of him than Bryz.

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11-14-2006, 11:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DucksWillWin'07 View Post
Don't you ever call Bryz a 1A goalie! He is a young guy with playoff experience, something the Flyguys could use. Niittymaki is probably the future face of the Flyguys, if not all goaltending in the east, so I couldn't see you guys wanting Bryz, but Bryz would be a great pick-up for any team. He can produce right now, and is a shoe in to be one of the best goalies in a few years. As a Duck fan I would hate to see Bryz go, but the talk around town sounds like he will probably go. Try a deal with Giigy. My fellow Duck fans will hate me for it now, but I would much rather get ride of him than Bryz.
I agree with you. Bryz is younger and cheaper at this point. Deal Giggy and get something for him.

In fact, how about you send Giggy to Philly and we will give you......................um.
..................Hatcher and Calder

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11-14-2006, 11:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I quit hockey if this trade becomes reality.

It's absolutely ****ing disgusting.
Hah. I would have said the same during the Fedorov trade...didnt turn out so bad. Im not saying it is a great proposal, just that I wouldnt be suprised if something similar to that happened.

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11-14-2006, 11:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
Hah. I would have said the same during the Fedorov trade...didnt turn out so bad. Im not saying it is a great proposal, just that I wouldnt be suprised if something similar to that happened.
It makes zero sense if only for the fact that trading Forsberg would serve a rebuilding purpose...how would Marchant, who is one month younger than Forsberg, make this a rebuild trade?

Similarly, Niittymaki is 4 days older than Bryzgalov and has proven more in his career (yes, not in the NHL, I know). And who is to say Bryzgalov is any better than Niittymaki with the Flyers ****** defense in front of him anyway?

Mikkelson is a defensive prospect which I hope will be a key part in any trade for Forsberg because the Flyers are okay with their forward prospect depth. But it's still not that enticing.

I'd rather try to move Forsberg to Vancouver with Bourdon as part of the deal or to Nashville for any number of their defensive prospects or players.

But then again, I'm 100% against trading Forsberg in the first place, just speculating on what I'd want in a return.

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11-15-2006, 12:02 AM
  #43
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Reading this thread you guys are friggen nuts if you think you're going to get that much for Forsberg. He's a great player but he's a pending UFA and is injured a lot. The Weight deal is a good one to bring up because basically St.Louis got a 1st rounder and a bunch of junk. Replace that junk with a few pretty decent prospects like Mikkelson and that's what you're going to get for Forsberg. You would be very lucky if you got Bryzgalov and Mikkelson for Forsberg. Chris Pronger - arguably the top dman in the league - signed didn't even bring back that much. You're going to be really disappointed when and if Forsberg gets dealt, because it's going to be something like 1st, Mikkelson, O'brien for Forsberg.

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11-15-2006, 12:07 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
It makes zero sense if only for the fact that trading Forsberg would serve a rebuilding purpose...how would Marchant, who is one month younger than Forsberg, make this a rebuild trade?

Similarly, Niittymaki is 4 days older than Bryzgalov and has proven more in his career (yes, not in the NHL, I know). And who is to say Bryzgalov is any better than Niittymaki with the Flyers ****** defense in front of him anyway?

Mikkelson is a defensive prospect which I hope will be a key part in any trade for Forsberg because the Flyers are okay with their forward prospect depth. But it's still not that enticing.

I'd rather try to move Forsberg to Vancouver with Bourdon as part of the deal or to Nashville for any number of their defensive prospects or players.

But then again, I'm 100% against trading Forsberg in the first place, just speculating on what I'd want in a return.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. However, Bryzgalov at this point is more of a proven commodity in the NHL as you stated...and he has playoff success. Marchant is only in the deal as salary coming back from Anaheim, and he is a UFA after this year. Looking at it now Mitera would probably have to be involved instead of Mikkelson, and the Coyotes 3rd would also probably be included...

Bryzgalov + Mitera + Marchant + Yotes 3rd

for

Esche + Forsberg

...is still not that even. However, it isnt inconceivable. The Flyers are going to have to be a little lenient as far as salary if they really want to deal Pete. Not a lot of teams that are playoff bound can afford 5.75 per.

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11-15-2006, 01:08 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
I understand exactly where you are coming from. However, Bryzgalov at this point is more of a proven commodity in the NHL as you stated...and he has playoff success. Marchant is only in the deal as salary coming back from Anaheim, and he is a UFA after this year. Looking at it now Mitera would probably have to be involved instead of Mikkelson, and the Coyotes 3rd would also probably be included...

Bryzgalov + Mitera + Marchant + Yotes 3rd

for

Esche + Forsberg



...is still not that even. However, it isnt inconceivable. The Flyers are going to have to be a little lenient as far as salary if they really want to deal Pete. Not a lot of teams that are playoff bound can afford 5.75 per.

I think the Flyers would think about this deal at the trade deadline.

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11-15-2006, 02:08 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
I understand exactly where you are coming from. However, Bryzgalov at this point is more of a proven commodity in the NHL as you stated...and he has playoff success. Marchant is only in the deal as salary coming back from Anaheim, and he is a UFA after this year. Looking at it now Mitera would probably have to be involved instead of Mikkelson, and the Coyotes 3rd would also probably be included...

Bryzgalov + Mitera + Marchant + Yotes 3rd

for

Esche + Forsberg

...is still not that even. However, it isnt inconceivable. The Flyers are going to have to be a little lenient as far as salary if they really want to deal Pete. Not a lot of teams that are playoff bound can afford 5.75 per.
Forsberg won't be moved until the deadline (if at all) and then his salary will be around $1+ million for the rest of the season. Most teams should be able to afford that if they move roster players in return especially. Then his salary is gone after this year anyway.

I wouldn't mind a goalie duo of Bryz and Nitty at all, I'm just not sure who would really step up to be the number one. We'd be left with a 1 and 1a situation like last year I think and that just doesn't work in Philadelphia.

I'd like to see an improved defense before I truly judge Niittymaki, because he can't be expected to carry this piece of **** team right now.

I mean hey, if it happens, it happens. I don't know what to expect for Forsberg. But removing him from the Flyers lineup leaves a big whole in the point production, someone coming back has to score goals or set them up in some capacity. Marchant would be a waste of space here, in my opinion.

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11-15-2006, 05:13 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
Forsberg won't be moved until the deadline (if at all) and then his salary will be around $1+ million for the rest of the season. Most teams should be able to afford that if they move roster players in return especially. Then his salary is gone after this year anyway.

I wouldn't mind a goalie duo of Bryz and Nitty at all, I'm just not sure who would really step up to be the number one. We'd be left with a 1 and 1a situation like last year I think and that just doesn't work in Philadelphia.

I'd like to see an improved defense before I truly judge Niittymaki, because he can't be expected to carry this piece of **** team right now.

I mean hey, if it happens, it happens. I don't know what to expect for Forsberg. But removing him from the Flyers lineup leaves a big whole in the point production, someone coming back has to score goals or set them up in some capacity. Marchant would be a waste of space here, in my opinion.

Like I said before, I'd want McDonald instead of Marchant. Younger and a better point producer, although last year's insane point total will probably not be matched again. Still, a young defenseman and a high draft pick would be the top things on my agenda were Forsberg to be traded.

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11-15-2006, 09:50 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I'd rather try to move Forsberg to Vancouver with Bourdon as part of the deal or to Nashville for any number of their defensive prospects or players.
If we were to get back Kevin Klein and Shea Webber for Forsberg, I'm all over that like white on rice. While everyone in the hockey world maybe enamored with Dion Phaneuf, I think Webber is a better overall player. He'd make an ideal compliment for Pitkanen.

As for Pitkanen being a young D man, so is Carle and Vlasic in San Jose and they seemed to have adjusted just fine to the league. I know I'm definitely in the minority when I say this, but Mike Keenan would be perfect for Pitkanen. And before anyone talks about the Iron Mike reputation, remember Mike is known for his great work with young players. It's veterans that seem to have problems with Mike.

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11-15-2006, 12:47 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If we were to get back Kevin Klein and Shea Webber for Forsberg, I'm all over that like white on rice. While everyone in the hockey world maybe enamored with Dion Phaneuf, I think Webber is a better overall player. He'd make an ideal compliment for Pitkanen.

As for Pitkanen being a young D man, so is Carle and Vlasic in San Jose and they seemed to have adjusted just fine to the league. I know I'm definitely in the minority when I say this, but Mike Keenan would be perfect for Pitkanen. And before anyone talks about the Iron Mike reputation, remember Mike is known for his great work with young players. It's veterans that seem to have problems with Mike.
Just one of Klein, Parent or Weber + something else would make me happy.

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11-15-2006, 05:04 PM
  #50
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Just one of Klein, Parent or Weber + something else would make me happy.
I would take one of Klein/Weber and Geoffrion.

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