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Bob McKenzie's Hockey Insider (Comrie)

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:16 PM
  #26
hillbillypriest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
I can see prospects as part of a deal. Considering Oates is in the fold now and we have no NEED for a top 6 forward. Seems we have 7 guys "capable" of serving that roll, 5 definates: Smyth, Oates, Hemsky, York and Dvorak, and Torres and Isbister riding the LW on the 2nd line depending on who's hot. A top 4 defenseman would be nice, but our back end isn't too bad, if Brewer wasn't struggling so badly the need for a d-man would be greatly reduced.

Lots of guys are dominant in junior. I would bet that if Lowe is looking for prospects that a deal won't happen untill after the WJC. That's when the best play the best and it becomes clearer who has the mettle to make it to the bigs. Stoll, Torres, Fleury, Bouwmeester all had stellar WJC careers and junior hockey careers.

For this reason alone (assuming it's prospects Lowe wants) Comrie will be an Oiler until early January at the earliest.
Exactly....

A prospects deal makes tonnes of sense. It's just the timing that makes a prospects based deal improbable now. A deal for prospects makes sense on a lot of levels for a team that (IMO) has no gaping immediate need to fill holes in the playing roster - primarily it's because a prospect costs nothing. Thing is, Mike Comrie also costs nothing right but has so much potential if traded to do damage by helping his new team push the Oilers out of a playoff position and by worsening the value of any future draft choice that he may be traded for.

I agree that Comrie will be an Oiler until at least January, but I would put a higher bet on him not being traded until March.

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11-25-2003, 08:23 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
and how I will join you in believing that this new rumour doesn't make much sense. Why so little for Comrie and why the hurry to suddenly trade him?

I don't buy it either.
Common sense dictates you guys are right. And in a way, I agree with you.

Comrie for Perry and a 2nd, as rumoured, is bloody f'ing terrible.

However, Bob McKenzie is solid, rumours are really picking up, and recent trades might say otherwise.

Look at what Marc Savard got? Zoolander? That guy is not going to play an NHL game, I can pretty much promise you that right now. And while Comrie is better than Savard, is he that much better?

And I keep hearing that NHL GM's are leery of Comrie's 'issues' and that is seriously deadening his value around the league.

While part of me wants to agree with you guys, the more rational part of me takes Bob's words to heart.

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:32 PM
  #28
hillbillypriest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral

And I keep hearing that NHL GM's are leery of Comrie's 'issues' and that is seriously deadening his value around the league.

While part of me wants to agree with you guys, the more rational part of me takes Bob's words to heart.
This is pure posturing. Comrie's issues are greatest in Edmonton. That is, he says he won't play for the Oilers anymore. Far as I know, he has no issues that run this deep with any other team. Anyway, if the concern about his attitude is such a big deal that it is scaring every potential trading partner away, then the only cure is for Comrie to come around and demonstrate that he's gotten over them and the only way he does that is to sign with Edmonton and reprove to the league that he's valuable.

Bottom line: Lowe won't make a deal that hurts the Oilers by making legitemate competitors for the last few western spots better without combatting that by also getting something back in return to help this year's team get a leg up on a spot. If that's not doable, he will wait.

p.s. Bob McKenzie's been wrong before (although at least he was right about the HC being great, unlike some of the TO dolts).

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:37 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Common sense dictates you guys are right. And in a way, I agree with you.

Comrie for Perry and a 2nd, as rumoured, is bloody f'ing terrible.

However, Bob McKenzie is solid, rumours are really picking up, and recent trades might say otherwise.

Look at what Marc Savard got? Zoolander? That guy is not going to play an NHL game, I can pretty much promise you that right now. And while Comrie is better than Savard, is he that much better?

And I keep hearing that NHL GM's are leery of Comrie's 'issues' and that is seriously deadening his value around the league.

While part of me wants to agree with you guys, the more rational part of me takes Bob's words to heart.
I hate the stupid friggin Savard comparison. The situation was SOOOOOOOOOO different! Savard was on the team, creating problems every day. Savard was being paid and NEEDED to be moved. Savard is/was older and his potential wasn't comparable to that of Comrie. Also, Button is an idiot - the guy is a loser, a punk, a bum. Lowe is nothing like that. He is smart, and he won't rush into something and panick like Button did (has that not been made obvious these past 20 games?).

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:38 PM
  #30
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest
This is pure posturing. Comrie's issues are greatest in Edmonton. That is, he says he won't play for the Oilers anymore. Far as I know, he has no issues that run this deep with any other team. Anyway, if the concern about his attitude is such a big deal that it is scaring every potential trading partner away, then the only cure is for Comrie to come around and demonstrate that he's gotten over them and the only way he does that is to sign with Edmonton and reprove to the league that he's valuable.
Agreed, but he hasn't yet, which is killing interest.

Quote:
Bottom line: Lowe won't make a deal that hurts the Oilers by making legitemate competitors for the last few western spots better without combatting that by also getting something back in return to help this year's team get a leg up on a spot. If that's not doable, he will wait.

p.s. Bob McKenzie's been wrong before (although at least he was right about the HC being great, unlike some of the TO dolts).
I don't know about that. Didn't he do it before with the Doug Weight trade?

I would take McKenzie's words over yours, however. I think you are overestimating Lowe...

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by thome_26
I hate the stupid friggin Savard comparison. The situation was SOOOOOOOOOO different! Savard was on the team, creating problems every day. Savard was being paid and NEEDED to be moved. Savard is/was older and his potential wasn't comparable to that of Comrie. Also, Button is an idiot - the guy is a loser, a punk, a bum. Lowe is nothing like that. He is smart, and he won't rush into something and panick like Button did (has that not been made obvious these past 20 games?).
I concur. Savard has zero relevance. Flames were desperate to move him and had to keep paying him to boot. Even then they made a deal that nobody in town could believe. Fans of other teams are blowing so much smoke about Comrie being a problem child. Thing is, Comrie is still big news all over the NHL. He is talked about on EVERY hockey talk program EVERY time. That is interest. There's a reason for that.

Savard was only talked about much in Calgary and everybody here was resigned to the fact that they wouldn't be getting a superstar back (people here did actually expect a player though).

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:47 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I would take McKenzie's words over yours, however. I think you are overestimating Lowe...
I guess we'll see...

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Old
11-25-2003, 08:56 PM
  #33
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Savard Savard blah blah blah............

Savard has been great in Atlanta - so how exactly does that trade negatively affect Comrie's value? If anything it increases it with Savard being a small center who is doing well after a trade (like Briere). All the Savard trade proves is that Calgary was being managed by a dolt at the time.

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Old
11-25-2003, 09:31 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell
How about this premise: Lowe is talking to Anaheim and this is only what they offered. Could be true and so far as I can tell Lowe has said "no".
If this is all Lowe can get the deal would be done right now. I think we are hearing what the other side is offering and i just don't think it gets it done. I have no problem with Perry as a prospect and i am sure he is going to be a good player, but at this time that deal makes no sense from an oiler standpoint. I can understand The ducks not wanting to part with Lupal or Chistov, but perry just doesn't get this deal done with a pick. I could see Perry and Vishnevski for comrie and a pick or prospect.

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Old
11-26-2003, 05:41 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I don't know about that. Didn't he do it before with the Doug Weight trade?
What the hell is up with your obsession of comparing 2 completely different situations?

Doug Weight and Mike Comrie are completely different. Doug Weight was 1 season away from the Oilers losing him for <b>nothing</b> and having him improve a Western Conference rival. Mike Comrie is 8 years away from that.

Come on man, if you are going to try and make comparisons, at least make real ones.

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Old
11-26-2003, 05:58 AM
  #36
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mizral, congrats on post #10,000. You officially need a life.

Given the fact that lowe and mact want comrie out of town, maybe they think that he won't be helping a competitor. This may be their logic - Comrie is going to paid a salary of a #1 centre. In the next few years, arb will net him 5 mill. If he plays as poorly as the last half of last year, then he is trading an albatross to a conference rival.

If they honestly don't think he is a #1 centre, then trading him to a competing team that is relying on him to be a #1 centre makes sense. AN example is Roman Turek. If Calgary could trade him to edmonton right now for a 9th round pick, they would take that in a sec.

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:17 AM
  #37
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Anaheim rumour in Sun

Has Vishnevki coming to Edmonton from Anaheim. Brynster did you forget about him or is the Sun off base?

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:28 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
(Perry) he's a rw which is probably our weakest fwd position in terms of depth.

The right side is not our weakest fwd position depth wise. We have Hemsky, Dvorak, Pisani, Laraque, Rita and Salmalainen not to mention that Isbister prefers the right side as well.

The last thing we need is another right winger.


T

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:30 AM
  #39
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I'll chime in and agree with HBP... there is absolutely no way we trade Comrie to a half decent team in our own conference for picks and prospects. Sure, maybe we'd send him to Columbus or something, but not a team (LA or ANA) that will definitely be hunting for a playoff spot. If we got something back that improved us now I can see it happening. But we aren't going to send a top six forward to a competing team for nothing tangible.

Eastern conference, sure... the Oilers are a good team right now and they don't necessarily need wild improvement to compete. I would take a high-level prospect and a 2nd for Comrie from an EC team.

Corey Perry and a 2nd will never happen. Anahiem would have to overpay dramatically to get Comrie for non roster players... Corey Perry, a 1st, and a 2nd. And maybe another 2nd.

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:34 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big T
The right side is not our weakest fwd position depth wise. We have Hemsky, Dvorak, Pisani, Laraque, Rita and Salmalainen not to mention that Isbister prefers the right side as well.

The last thing we need is another right winger.


T
I think sniping right winger would be a more apt description. At least someone who can consistently proven they can score in the prospect ranks because that is where the weakness lies. (in the minors or developing)

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:59 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
I think sniping right winger would be a more apt description. At least someone who can consistently proven they can score in the prospect ranks because that is where the weakness lies. (in the minors or developing)
Perry isn't really a sniper though, he is more of a playmaker...

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Old
11-26-2003, 08:14 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Perry isn't really a sniper though, he is more of a playmaker...
oh man, we DON'T need anymore playmakers. We need someone who'll just shoot the darn puck!

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Old
11-26-2003, 08:21 AM
  #43
Mizral
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
What the hell is up with your obsession of comparing 2 completely different situations?

Doug Weight and Mike Comrie are completely different. Doug Weight was 1 season away from the Oilers losing him for <b>nothing</b> and having him improve a Western Conference rival. Mike Comrie is 8 years away from that.

Come on man, if you are going to try and make comparisons, at least make real ones.
Uhh.. Dawgbone, settle down. I was saying that the Oilers traded Weight to a conference rival who could potentially kick them out of a playoff spot. I wasn't comparing Comrie's situation to Weight's situation. Read my post again.

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11-26-2003, 08:26 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Uhh.. Dawgbone, settle down. I was saying that the Oilers traded Weight to a conference rival who could potentially kick them out of a playoff spot. I wasn't comparing Comrie's situation to Weight's situation. Read my post again.
Hopefully with Comrie, things will be a little different. The point you make Mizral is even more valid now and I thing that if the Oilers deal MC to a Western Conference rival, they have to get a roster player in return.

My feeling is that the Oilers may win the trade in the long term (if they deal for a prospect), but in the short-term, the impact could be alot more devastating than if Comrie was dealt to an eastern team for a prospect.

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Old
11-26-2003, 09:46 AM
  #45
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I still think we need a big young centre, sure we have Oates now but that will be for 1 year. I think we have to consider the future and the Oilers sure aren't overstocked on big promising centres with and offensive upside.

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Old
11-26-2003, 09:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Savard Savard blah blah blah............

Savard has been great in Atlanta - so how exactly does that trade negatively affect Comrie's value? If anything it increases it with Savard being a small center who is doing well after a trade (like Briere). All the Savard trade proves is that Calgary was being managed by a dolt at the time.
Bingo!

Everybody and their hockey stick loves to bring up the Savard trade with regards to Comrie. My philoshophy is this...

If Marc Savard were to be traded today, what would he go for?

A whole crap load more than Ruslan Zoolander, that's for sure.

If Danny Briere were to be traded today, what would he go for?

You can bet it'd be more than Chris "The Tin Man" Gratton.

So then, what can we infer about the value of these two recently traded "small guys"?

Is Comrie's value on par with Savard's and Briere's, or is it higher, as he is younger, cheaper(?), and thus far, more effective?


I guess we'll find out.

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Old
11-26-2003, 10:01 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxall9
and the Oilers sure aren't overstocked on big promising centres with and offensive upside.
We have Pouliot and Niinimaki, two very promising young centerman who are both over 6 feet.. while they're not a sure quantity, our prospect depth at center is not as dismal as you make it out to be. I partially agree though, we might have a problem next year if no lockout occurs.. I still think Reasoner has a lot more untapped offensive potential than many of us give him credit for.

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Old
11-26-2003, 06:08 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno
Is Comrie's value on par with Savard's and Briere's, or is it higher, as he is younger, cheaper(?), and thus far, more effective?

I guess we'll find out.
I would say comrie's value is more than savard and briere, but probably in line with them.

Comrie is comparable to jokinen and gagne in talent/age, but i think comrie would fetch significantly less in a trade because of his size and, well, his unknown attitude.

We've already heard Clarke bemoan a lack of interest in comrie based soley on his small size, i think many GM's may feel a similar way. I don't think comrie will fetch what many oiler fans expect.

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Old
11-27-2003, 07:44 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by zeppelin97
We've already heard Clarke bemoan a lack of interest in comrie based soley on his small size, i think many GM's may feel a similar way. I don't think comrie will fetch what many oiler fans expect.
But you see, that's my point. Look how effective Savard and Briere have been in the larger Eastern Conference

GP G A PTS +/- PIM

Briere: 23 5 12 17 -1 24

Savard: 14 7 9 15 3 14

Pretty good numbers on teams that, chances are won't make it to the cup finals (small sample size, but you get the drift.)

Combine that with the fact that, as I think any objective observer will confirm, Comrie plays a much more physical game than Savard or Briere, thus he should be able to handle the bigger players in the E.C better.

A smart GM would look at the succes of Briere and Savard in the E.C and realize that a 5'9, 180lb guy with as much determination as Comrie can succeed ANYWHERE in the league.

We have to get out of this "Bigger Is Better" mentality, because, quite frankly, these little guys are proving that mentality to be outdated.

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Old
11-27-2003, 08:38 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno
We have to get out of this "Bigger Is Better" mentality, because, quite frankly, these little guys are proving that mentality to be outdated.
While I agree that it's outdated, it doesn't change the reality that many GMs look at 5'9" offensive centers as a cute novelty, but not something you stick into your top 6 if you want to be a top team. That's just the way some of these guys are wired.

With Comrie specifically, I'm betting there's also some hesitation among the GMs about exactly how effective he really is at the NHL level. MC's had two very different seasons: One where he scored 33 goals, led the team in +/-, and basically carried this team on his back in an attempt to make the playoffs but ultimately failed; and the other, where he scored 20 goals, was the worst defensive liability on his team, and had such a bad playoff that his coach nearly benched him. If I'm a rival GM, I'm wondering which guy is the real Mike Comrie...

Add to that he's represented by likely one of the most hated agents in hockey, and you have a very uncertain package.

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