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Post Game - 'Nucks @ Habs - Nov. 25th,2003

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11-25-2003, 05:52 PM
  #1
gohabsgo2010
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Post Game - 'Nucks @ Habs - Nov. 25th,2003

Well, we sure picked a bad night to play blast from the past.

NHL.com Game Summary

Feel free to turn into team990.com and cjad.com post game shows, they're a good listen.
  • What were your thoughts on Dagenais?
  • Give your reasons for Komisarek to be in the line-up?
  • How do you feel about Sundstrom's first goal of the year?
  • Was Quintal and Rivet really that bad?
  • Why did Theodore face 45 shots? Is Zednik back for real?







Hear Claude Julien's Post Game Remarks on CJAD.

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11-25-2003, 05:55 PM
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Julien's Post Game Remarks

- We need to regroup, and fast.
- This was not good enough.
- We did not respond when we were pushed to the limit.
- The team is disapointed.
- We played a prepared team, and when they turned it on they were too tough a team to play against.

Souray's Post Game Thoughts

- We didn't show up.
- It's happened too many times this year, and it's not acceptable.
- We're way below our expectations.
- Quite simply unacceptable.
- The players stuck around a little longer to "talk" about some things.

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11-25-2003, 06:14 PM
  #3
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I didn't get a chance to see the game, but I was just wondering:

Were Rivet's 2 high sticking penalities "dumb" or were they warranted? Just curious because he keeps getting penalties and I think it's somehow wrong that this guy, who doesn't fight, is leading our team in pen. mins...

Anyways, for all Rivet lovers out there, don't get me wrong: I am not criticizing his game tonight, because I didn't see it. Just wondering about the penalties.

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11-25-2003, 06:22 PM
  #4
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For those who were lucky enough to see him, I dedicate this post game review to Pimp Daddy Demers. For those who didn't see him, it was Retro 70's night on RDS and he was dressed like a pimp.

As for the game itself, what can you say? We were beaten by a much better squad and for all Gainey's wishes that everyone on the Habs work as hard as they can every shift, he received about a half effort from most. Sad but true, I think this season is going to try everyone's patience since I don't see him making any *major* moves before finding out what the new CBA is going to look like.

The Habs basically shot themselves in the foot all night with stupid plays subsequent to panic attacks. The simple play was rarely taken which led to dumps and a loss of possession of the puck. You can't win games when you don't have the puck, and tonight clearly illustrated that for everyone involved. Everytime a Hab panicked the puck out or failed to make the simple play, the 'Nuck-Nucks took advantage and pressed into the Habs relentlessly. Furthermore, when you're second to the puck, you can't expect much, and as this was a typical first game at home after a long road trip, the Habs were lazy and second to the puck all night.

~~

Notes: (performance marked)

Theo: Terrible game in every sense of the word. Yes, you can make a case that the defense didn't help him out any and you can also say he was a victim of some poor luck, but when you rely on your goalie to give you any chance, tonight Theo was crap. I would have pulled him after goal three, myself. The first was right through the wickets, the second was a weak backhander after Naslund had given THeo the opportunity to make his lateral movement, the third was off Breezers skate, but if you looked at the replay carefully, you would have seen that despite the deflection, that puck was going in anyhow. The fourth wasn't Theo's fault - it was off a skate in front, and the fifth was a clean deke after a bad pinch. Those first three really hurt. C-

Bouillon: One nice hit, but he is getting the same treatment Markov got for the early part of the season - a partnership with Traffic Cone 52. However, even though he wasn't against the big line, Bouillon was still pushed around more than I would have liked. B-

Rivet: *Alert* Traffic Cone in the road. And we thank him for his honourable work on the first goal when he left his man - in front of the net, no less - completely alone to have a free shot. Panic Man struggled all night and as his other nick might suggest, he was prone to his typical play of tossing the puck when a simple play would suffice. Have a seat, Komi looks good in your spot. D+

Quintal: He's struggling big time out there. He's behind the play a lot and he's just not using the body enough to make a difference. He was paired with Souray against that big line, and they were man-handled all night. Instead of good positioning to compensate, Quintal was puck chasing a lot, leading particularly to goal three where his man Naslund had about three square acres of ice to himself. D+

Souray: Aye Carumba what happened to the Souray who was our best defender a couple of weeks ago? He's chippy and physical, but he's making loads of mental errors which could easily cut down on shots and goals against. His bad pinch on the last goal hurt (though to be fair, Ribby didn't back him up well either), and there were a couple of other instances where he looked out to lunch. C

Brisebois: Three! Count 'em three cross ice passes in his own zone! That's just not going to cut it! Fortunately, no one scored on any of them, but they're getting worse each time. Now, to be fair, he ended up a plus player and he deserved it by playing that safe game he's been working on recently, but those cross ice doozies just have to go! B+

Markov: Shame we couldn't have both he and Souray on their games at the same time, eh? Markov once again looks like he's in control of things back there. He's smart on and off the puck and breaks up plays extremely well. Houde seemed to think it was Breezy's presence that raised his confidence; I counter with it being a lack of Traffic Cone 52's presence which has helped. A-

Langdon: Good game, even on the forecheck. He laid in a couple of good hits and when he was put out there later in the game to make things happen, he did. I appreciate that kind of effort. A-

Begin: Fairly typical game as he hit most things that moved, and tonight even chipped in with a couple of fairly good offensive plays. A plus player tonight and it looks good on him. A-

Sundstrom: Tough to get in a groove when you're switched from line to line all night, but I'll give him credit, he managed it. When he was on Ribby's line he created good chances, and when he was with the fourth line, he not only played a much better game than usual, but even potted one. B+

Dackell: Tough game for that line against a really good Morrison/Bert/Naslund combo. There were times when all three were out of position, but what's most unfortunate for them was the fact that they usually had Quintal and Souray behind them, and the two defenders were the source of the real problems. Dackell played okay, but not as well as usual, and I think his confidence suffered as the game wore on. C+

Juneau: To be fair, Morrison was usually marked out of the play, and in general, that's Juneau's man. They do play a zone defence, so he is also responsible for the other forwards that buzz around the net though, and too often someone was left open in the slot. Probably his worst game of the year, yet it was still better than most would give him credit for. I anticipate reading a plethora (I love working that word in) of Juneau benching requests from fans after this one. B-

Bulis: Tonight his speed was neutralized because the big 'Nuck-Nuck line had the puck in the Hab zone for the majority of the time. Now, that didn't stop Bulis from creating a couple of chances offensively, but nothing like usual. Perhaps the one to blame least of that line, he still didn't have the type of game one might have hoped to see. B

Dagenais: He's about 700 miles better than Ward in almost every aspect. And that's not saying much. He certainly created a few chances for himself and is obviously a scorer who takes every opportunity to get a shot on goal, and I like that quality. His skating wasn't as much of an issue I thought it might have been, but when you're paired with Ribby and Perreault, you tend to look much faster than you are. Good start. B

Ribeiro: In the first period, I thought he looked okay, but it went rapidly downhill from there. He was basically invisible for much of the latter stages of the game, and that's in no small part to the fact that the opposition had the puck more often than not and Ribby's defensive game is still lacking. Not only that, but getting the puck back is hard for a guy of that stature. Still, I have to commend the fact that he doesn't shy away and works hard along the boards. C+

Perreault: I thought this was going to be an awsome game for him in the first when he not only had a couple of decent chances buzzing around the net, but also almost put a 'Nuck-Nuck into the Hab bench. Yes, you read that right. Unfortunately, as he's wont to do, he disappeared for most of the rest of the game. C-

Ryder: This line was so on and off all night... One shift they dominated, the next they were dominated. Ryder's game flowed in exactly that nature. One shift he looked great, the next he was nigh on useless. Consistency will go a long way to keeping him productive and in the NHL. C+

Zednik: He's keeping moving more now, and even though the line was dominated at times, at least he was not caught standing still as he was earlier in the season. Defensively he and Ryder both caused a few problems by not being able to corral the puck and launch anything, and that's a cause for concern. Still, nice to see him score. B-

Koivu: The captain came out of the chutes at full speed and looked like he was going to dominate early on, however when his line started having its troubles, so did he. A little unlucky not to come out of the game a plus player as he had just come on when a goal was scored, I thought he played a good to very good game. His first goal is just around the corner as he made Clouthier make one heck of a save. B+

~~

Puck possession. When you can't maintain it, you lose games unless your goalie can steal it for you. Nothing of the sort happened tonight and the Habs were therefore dominated. The sad thing about it all is the fact that the 'Nuck-Nucks were coming off a game the night before, but the Habs looked the tired team. You don't win when you don't want it, and the team that won looked like they wanted it.

But we take our lumps and move on. A game on Friday night against the Caps might be just what the doctor ordered...unless we come out overconifdent - which this team has no right to do. Hopefully the intervening days will be well spent getting the team back to the system - which has been lost in recent games evidenced by a shot count that's going through the roof, as well as the special teams, which are anything but special.

Noses to the grindstone, hopefully.

A concerned fan.

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11-25-2003, 06:35 PM
  #5
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Well here's my post game thoughts, let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade, this was a piss poor showing (yet again). Pathetic how there's a bunch of losers in that team that cannot find it in themselves to AT LEAST COMPETE when they jump on the ice. I won't bother going through players one on one as they pretty much all stunk almost all night long (Theodore aside). Those 2 last periods were a real joke.

Rivet and Quintal were god awful, Souray was bad but not as much as those two and every line aside from Koivu's in the 1st and Begin's subsequently decided to take a night off. I would have been mad like crazy if I paid to go see that game. I'm going less and less at the Bell Center since a couple of years mainly for this reason, because one night out of two the players play like they just couldn't care less. They're there because they are forced to and that's it (it seems).

This team lacks leadership, size, talent, guts, character, speed, toughness... Meanwhile players WITH MOST OF THOSE ATTRIBUTES like Higgins, Gratton and Plekanec are rotting in the AHL. It's disgusting to see because in the end, we probably won't win much more with the veterans. They all know they're gone after the year and they play like they couldn't care less. That's the problem I have with this team right now. Let the young kids play and have fun on the ice and show some intensity and motivation out there, because the vets sure don't look like there's any left in them. That god damn tradition to let the kids wait in the AHL for years and play them on the 4th line even longer after that in Montreal is just ridiculous and has to be changed. I'm not saying to flat out go with a youth only lineup but I know what I saw and I strongly beleive Plekanec and Higgins are NHL ready right now, yet they don't want to rush them (it's not called rushing at this point, it's called rotting).

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11-25-2003, 06:39 PM
  #6
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My thoughts on Dagenais? Gainey brought up the wrong player. Not that any move would have changed the results of the game. The Habs were overmatched.

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11-25-2003, 06:52 PM
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Get a life "couilles d'acier"

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11-25-2003, 06:53 PM
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Well I haven't seen the game (luckily, if just for Bertuzzi and that pounding machine the 'nucks make) but, it's quite obvious that the Vancouver would be all over us tonight....

Imagine a 1st place overall team that has lost 2 in row against the Leafs!! Plus the fact that they haven't play that well lately, the habs were just doomed for a solid pasting.....Thank god it wasn't entirely a blow-out!

I dunno..but i just can't wait to read your thoughts!!!!

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11-25-2003, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyclaus
Well I haven't seen the game (luckily, if just for Bertuzzi and that pounding machine the 'nucks make) but, it's quite obvious that the Vancouver would be all over us tonight....

Imagine a 1st place overall team that has lost 2 in row against the Leafs!! Plus the fact that they haven't play that well lately, the habs were just doomed for a solid pasting.....Thank god it wasn't entirely a blow-out!

I dunno..but i just can't wait to read your thoughts!!!!
Hockey cliche #137 (which I endorse): It's not the fact you lose, but how you lose.

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11-25-2003, 06:55 PM
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give to the nucs the credit they deserve to get ; wow , i like this team !

good job Guy ! once again , i enjoy to read your view of the game .If you didn't like the play of Quintal and cie with the Juneau's line , for myself i didn't enjoy to see Bouillon / Rivest played with the line of Ribeiro ;This line was already too slow for the Nucs , so why played them with those 2 defensers ?

It was also difficult to judge Dagenais because his line was by far tooslow for a team like Vancouver .But i anm not desappointe by him ...

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11-25-2003, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Hockey cliche #137 (which I endorse): It's not the fact you lose, but how you lose.
Like i said: I didn't watch the game

edit: just placing things in perspective

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11-25-2003, 07:24 PM
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Simply put, the Canucks are too much for the habs RIGHT NOW....Gainey will definately make some changes...I sure wont mind seeing Rivet, Perreault and Dackell all gone

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11-25-2003, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
give to the nucs the credit they deserve to get ; wow , i like this team !

good job Guy ! once again , i enjoy to read your view of the game .If you didn't like the play of Quintal and cie with the Juneau's line , for myself i didn't enjoy to see Bouillon / Rivest played with the line of Ribeiro ;This line was already too slow for the Nucs , so why played them with those 2 defensers ?

It was also difficult to judge Dagenais because his line was by far tooslow for a team like Vancouver .But i anm not desappointe by him ...
Ahhhh, I just love your English.

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11-25-2003, 07:34 PM
  #14
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my notices for this game:

Dagenais was playing on 4th line by the end of the game, he can be somewhat usefull on that line but I think he belongs in Hamilton

usually 110% says lots of BS, but I agree with them that Komo should be in lineup, not in press box, why call him up to sit him in press box, he's ready to play, he knows what the NHL is like, he played last year

Ribs needs to play centre, he's much better there than on wing
he played wing last year with no success

our defenceman need to wake up and hit people, Souray's hitting has gone down, only D who has heart is Bouillon, and he's the smallest one, Souray needs to step it up like earlier this year
Brisebois is playing alright, could be better, but at least he doesn't do too many mistakes

Rivet-Quintal not doing anything
I haven't noticed much of Markov lately either, he also needs to wake up and play like he did last year

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11-25-2003, 07:49 PM
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As a Canuck fan looking at the Habs:

Theodore, in my mind, was by far and away the best Hab tonight. 5 goals against is never a great night, but name me one goal in which he should have had? Both of Naslund's were tough, King's went off his toe, Bertuzzi had him going the other way. Keane's I thought was saveable, but hey, that's a real tough save too. But Theodore made a ton of great saves (35 save effort!) and was amazing with the puck. To pin this loss on Theodore, or to even say he didn't have a good night, is inept. THE TEAM HAD 40 SHOTS AGAINST! *pounds that into Habs fans heads* You have perhaps the best goaltender in the league right now (I still like Brodeur a bit more). Maybe the problem isn't Theodore?

Both Habs goalscorers were good. Zednik is gonna outscore Koivu this year, bank on it. I am a huge Richard Zednik fan, and he had a good game tonight again.

I thought Yannic Perrault was good, although he didn't score a goal. Koivu was dangerous too.

Beyond those guys, I thought the Habs weren't very good. I thought the entire defensive crew was just flat out bad. There were no good sights on the Habs blueline tonight.

Langdon had a good game too.

I thought Rivet was the worst Hab tonight, but there were plenty other in his company. Just an all around crappy team effort, but the Canucks (don't mean to toot horns here) are one of the best teams in the league, and the Habs are one of the worst. You guys are in a rebuilding process, and Canucks fans know what that's all about. It'll take time..

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11-25-2003, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
You guys are in a rebuilding process, and Canucks fans know what that's all about. It'll take time..

Well said, and congrads on your 10,000'th post. I've read many of your posts, and they're all quality-posts.

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11-25-2003, 08:08 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
As a Canuck fan looking at the Habs:

Theodore, in my mind, was by far and away the best Hab tonight. 5 goals against is never a great night, but name me one goal in which he should have had? Both of Naslund's were tough, King's went off his toe, Bertuzzi had him going the other way. Keane's I thought was saveable, but hey, that's a real tough save too. But Theodore made a ton of great saves (35 save effort!) and was amazing with the puck. To pin this loss on Theodore, or to even say he didn't have a good night, is inept. THE TEAM HAD 40 SHOTS AGAINST! *pounds that into Habs fans heads* You have perhaps the best goaltender in the league right now (I still like Brodeur a bit more). Maybe the problem isn't Theodore?
I think perhaps you've been watching the Canuck goalie situation for too long, because here in Habland a ho-hum performance by a goaltender is unacceptable. And as for saying we have the best goalie in the league barring Brodeur right now is painfully inaccurate. We have the most inconsistent goalie in hockey - by far. Four shutouts and an even higher total of putrid games.

The first goal by Keane was through the wickets, fluorescent five hole, betwixt the paddings, whatever you want to call it. Any shot from that distance no matter the goalie in the NHL is *completely* unacceptable. Completely. It's deflating to the team particularly when they know you should have had it. No one's blaming Theo for the loss, but let's be honest here, when the Habs need him at his best to win and he lets in shots like that, it's got to take a lot of steam out of the ol' sails.

Goal number two was nothing more than a weak backhander *after* Theo had made his lateral movement and had basically come to a stop. Not only that, it was glove side - supposedly a strong point for Theo. Okay, the Canucks managed to get him moving from one side of the crease to the other, but I'd hardly call it a one-timer shot that takes the goalie out of the equation. It was a poor goal.

The third goal, the Bert goal was a case of Theo failing to use his butterfly. He slid across, and yes Bert shot it somewhat against the grain, but had Theo managed to stay in the butterfly rather than curling his legs up behind him so he was basically sliding with the least profile possible, it ended up looking like he was beat horribly to the stick side. Hold the leg out where it belongs when you're a butterfly goalie, and that's a save.

The last two goals were certainly not his fault and for sure most of the rest of the team didn't show up to support him, but I think he'd be the first to say he let in a couple of real softies. And it has to be said he played well enough for it not to be about 10-2, of course. But no matter how many saves he made, he still let in those weak goals.

On the other hand, I do completely agree that he was great when he handled the puck. Up until about six games ago my wife would yell at me constantly when I'd scream at the TV, "Stay in your (expletive - delete) net!" Hell, my best friend, an Isle fan, used to love playing against Theo because the Isles were guaranteed a couple of scoring ops when Theo wandered. Not anymore!

Actually, you could say this game was a microcosm of his year. Brilliant on some plays and completely bone-headed on others.

A concerned fan.

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11-25-2003, 09:13 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Guy!
I think perhaps you've been watching the Canuck goalie situation for too long, because here in Habland a ho-hum performance by a goaltender is unacceptable. And as for saying we have the best goalie in the league barring Brodeur right now is painfully inaccurate. We have the most inconsistent goalie in hockey - by far. Four shutouts and an even higher total of putrid games.

The first goal by Keane was through the wickets, fluorescent five hole, betwixt the paddings, whatever you want to call it. Any shot from that distance no matter the goalie in the NHL is *completely* unacceptable. Completely. It's deflating to the team particularly when they know you should have had it. No one's blaming Theo for the loss, but let's be honest here, when the Habs need him at his best to win and he lets in shots like that, it's got to take a lot of steam out of the ol' sails.

Goal number two was nothing more than a weak backhander *after* Theo had made his lateral movement and had basically come to a stop. Not only that, it was glove side - supposedly a strong point for Theo. Okay, the Canucks managed to get him moving from one side of the crease to the other, but I'd hardly call it a one-timer shot that takes the goalie out of the equation. It was a poor goal.

The third goal, the Bert goal was a case of Theo failing to use his butterfly. He slid across, and yes Bert shot it somewhat against the grain, but had Theo managed to stay in the butterfly rather than curling his legs up behind him so he was basically sliding with the least profile possible, it ended up looking like he was beat horribly to the stick side. Hold the leg out where it belongs when you're a butterfly goalie, and that's a save.

The last two goals were certainly not his fault and for sure most of the rest of the team didn't show up to support him, but I think he'd be the first to say he let in a couple of real softies. And it has to be said he played well enough for it not to be about 10-2, of course. But no matter how many saves he made, he still let in those weak goals.

On the other hand, I do completely agree that he was great when he handled the puck. Up until about six games ago my wife would yell at me constantly when I'd scream at the TV, "Stay in your (expletive - delete) net!" Hell, my best friend, an Isle fan, used to love playing against Theo because the Isles were guaranteed a couple of scoring ops when Theo wandered. Not anymore!

Actually, you could say this game was a microcosm of his year. Brilliant on some plays and completely bone-headed on others.

A concerned fan.
Ughhhh SHUTUP.

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11-26-2003, 06:50 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
Ughhhh SHUTUP.
Time for the mods to get active on the abundant amount of idiots we've got here again it seems.

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11-26-2003, 07:29 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kastsitsyn
Ughhhh SHUTUP.
Andrei Kastsitsyn...

This type of post is not acceptable at HF. Feel free to disagree with anything posted, but this kind of disrespectful, immature response will not be tolerated.

Consider yourself warned.

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11-26-2003, 11:24 AM
  #21
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Guy,

All I'll say is if you, or any other Habs fans, think the Canadiens are any better than bottom 10 in the league in terms of overall defensive play, they need their head examined. The Habs have perhaps the worst defense in the league (not necessarily their personel, but their execution), or one of the worst. It's pretty difficult, even for a world class goaltender like Jose Theodore, to look good in front of that rag tag bunch.

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11-26-2003, 11:31 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Guy,

All I'll say is if you, or any other Habs fans, think the Canadiens are any better than bottom 10 in the league in terms of overall defensive play, they need their head examined. The Habs have perhaps the worst defense in the league (not necessarily their personel, but their execution), or one of the worst. It's pretty difficult, even for a world class goaltender like Jose Theodore, to look good in front of that rag tag bunch.
Teams with bad defense can still do well (look at Chicago). I don't think Theodore really looked good on some goals (mostly Naslund's goals where he took himself out of position both times) but then again he was bombarded. I would rate Theodore's performance as "average". Garon wouldn't have done much worse imo.

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11-26-2003, 11:35 AM
  #23
Mizral
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Chicago doing well? Maybe now, but Chicago works a lot harder than the Habs do in their own zone.

Over an 82 game season, Chicago will not be doing well, and unless Gainey makes some moves quick, I doubt the Habs will either, sadly.

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11-26-2003, 05:49 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smail
Teams with bad defense can still do well (look at Chicago). I don't think Theodore really looked good on some goals (mostly Naslund's goals where he took himself out of position both times) but then again he was bombarded. I would rate Theodore's performance as "average". Garon wouldn't have done much worse imo.
Garon wouldn't have done better, either. The Habs were bombarded.

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11-26-2003, 06:20 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Guy,

All I'll say is if you, or any other Habs fans, think the Canadiens are any better than bottom 10 in the league in terms of overall defensive play, they need their head examined. The Habs have perhaps the worst defense in the league (not necessarily their personel, but their execution), or one of the worst. It's pretty difficult, even for a world class goaltender like Jose Theodore, to look good in front of that rag tag bunch.
Little aggressive are we? Care for a job on the Hab blueline?

I am not disputing the Hab defensive problems. I am not disputing the barrage of shots. I am not disputing the fact that Theo made some excellent saves and held the game closer than it could have been.

I am saying that one is mistaken if one thinks Theo is anywhere close to the best goalie in the league at this moment as, if one watches Theo every minute of every game would notice, he's about as consistent as the weather.

A concerned fan.

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