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Garth Murray hated by Habs like Hossa hated by NYR

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Old
11-13-2006, 10:04 AM
  #1
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
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Garth Murray hated by Habs like Hossa hated by NYR

Id take Murray back for Hossa. I find it strange that they dont like him. They can use more grit. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...29#post7063229

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11-13-2006, 10:17 AM
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Bringing back Murray...

does nothing. The Rangers do not need another fourth line grinder. If the Rangers trade Hossa, it's because either Ortmeyer's back in the lineup and his services are no longer needed, or he's being permanently replaced by Dawes. I liked Murray and am suprised how he's turned out, but there's no need to take on someone that was here and isn't working out someplace else.

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11-13-2006, 10:21 AM
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im saying id take him, but i would not trade 4 him. i guess that trade is a wash. oh well, same for balej for fedorov. i dont understand why sather made that trade, cause he had the name fedorov.

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11-13-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
im saying id take him, but i would not trade 4 him. i guess that trade is a wash. oh well, same for balej for fedorov. i dont understand why sather made that trade, cause he had the name fedorov.
You said you would take him for Hossa, isn't that a trade?

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11-13-2006, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootin'Tyutin View Post
You said you would take him for Hossa, isn't that a trade?
i would take him for hossa but not at this time, if we needed another 4th liner with grit, id take him back.

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11-13-2006, 12:02 PM
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I like Murray too, but I also like Hossa so what do I know?

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11-13-2006, 12:11 PM
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I wouldn't take the words of some panic-stricken Habs fans too seriously... Murray may be off to a slow start, but I think we all know basically what he is. From the 4th line, with some PK time, he doesn't hurt anybody. He's neither asset nor liability, he just does his job for the most part, decent, replaceable, but why bother replacing him? Nobody slotted into the same fringe role is going to do anything different. He had a bit more opportunity with the Habs last year than he has thus far this year, but played a bit better too... ample time for things to swing back the other way. Any Habs fan who "hates" Murray is asking for some rolly-eye smilies IMO.

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Old
11-13-2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I wouldn't take the words of some panic-stricken Habs fans too seriously... Murray may be off to a slow start, but I think we all know basically what he is. From the 4th line, with some PK time, he doesn't hurt anybody. He's neither asset nor liability, he just does his job for the most part, decent, replaceable, but why bother replacing him? Nobody slotted into the same fringe role is going to do anything different. He had a bit more opportunity with the Habs last year than he has thus far this year, but played a bit better too... ample time for things to swing back the other way. Any Habs fan who "hates" Murray is asking for some rolly-eye smilies IMO.
well us rangers fans hate hossa, he is garbage.

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11-13-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I wouldn't take the words of some panic-stricken Habs fans too seriously... Murray may be off to a slow start, but I think we all know basically what he is. From the 4th line, with some PK time, he doesn't hurt anybody. He's neither asset nor liability, he just does his job for the most part, decent, replaceable, but why bother replacing him? Nobody slotted into the same fringe role is going to do anything different. He had a bit more opportunity with the Habs last year than he has thus far this year, but played a bit better too... ample time for things to swing back the other way. Any Habs fan who "hates" Murray is asking for some rolly-eye smilies IMO.
Now replace the names Murray and Habs with Hossa and Rangers, and the analysis is still spot-on.

Nice, logical post.

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Old
11-13-2006, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
i would take him for hossa but not at this time, if we needed another 4th liner with grit, id take him back.
I Agree. I would take him back. He is Orr and Hollweg in one package and less hesitant to block some shots.

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11-13-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
well us rangers fans hate hossa, he is garbage.


thanks for speaking for all of us there

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Old
11-13-2006, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ToMm NYR View Post
I Agree. I would take him back. He is Orr and Hollweg in one package and less hesitant to block some shots.
He is Orr + Hollweg divided by 3

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Old
11-13-2006, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako View Post
Now replace the names Murray and Habs with Hossa and Rangers, and the analysis is still spot-on.

Nice, logical post.
I'd agree with you if Hossa were actually bringing something to the team, or looked he was going to do so in the future. He doesn't hurt the team on the ice by any means, plays an OK 4th line game in that he doesn't make glaring errors.

But the problem with him on the Rangers is that he's keeping other players (namely Nigel Dawes) off the roster. Now Dawes probably will hurt the Rangers more on the 4th line at this point in his career, giveaways and bad decisions will lead to goals against. But he needs icetime and he needs to develop, so he can become a higher-impact player at some point in the next few seasons, something I don't see Hossa doing anymore. Plus, he'll make up for his mistakes in part by doing something Hossa does not: score.

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Old
11-14-2006, 07:18 AM
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Murry/Hossa, both 4th line players with minimal impact on any team their on, easily replaceable by anyone.

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11-14-2006, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kickice View Post
thanks for speaking for all of us there
Beat me to it. Since when did Jorts become the voice for all Ranger fans?

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Old
11-14-2006, 10:09 AM
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You're just going to have to write grittier posts.

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Old
11-14-2006, 12:35 PM
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Agree with Blind Guardian, though I would prefer seeing guys in the farm like Lapierre and Ferland than Murray. We liked Murray last year 'cause of the jump he had, showing surprising speed, always ready to fight, even though, the guy is not the greatest tactician in that domain, but always hitting, even showing some skills offensively......

But then, he kinda lost all of that this year, though he still do an adequate job killing the penalties when he was given the possibility. But a 4th line composed of Plekanec-Murray-Downey might be one of the weakest of all.....And in the end, while Downey has great leadership and works better right now, Murray might and will pay the price sooner than later.

He's not atrocious though, he's just a role player who lately does not play his best, you then have a tendancy of seeing those players as garbage 'cause he has some limited skills and has to be perfect in the role he's playing, if he's not, he automatically becomes a liability, assessment I don't really agree with but that's how it is anyway.

But not having anybody better in the farm team, he would still be my 12th-13th player on the roster.

He just need to get his confidence level back to what it was last year and he should be OK. Wondering if he might not get that confidence by going in the AHL for a while though.

Would he clear waivers??? I believe so.

In Hossa's case, again it all depens of your expectations. It was a great try by the Rangers org. to see if he could be better with you. He's obviously not now, but that's something that was worth a try especially with guys like Hollweg and Ortmeyer on the team. Either you lower your expectations or you try stealing somebody from Atlanta if Marian really wants to play with his kid bro......

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11-14-2006, 02:24 PM
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Murray certainly ranks as a disappointment for me.

Not that he was going to be a star, but he was a character guy who would fight, pop in some points and be a team leader.

Really liked his game and thought it would translate well to the pro game, but it hasn't materialized.

Him and Hollweg kind of surprised me with their lack of offensive skills at the pro level so far. Thought both could potentially be third line guys with a lot of grit and some ability.

Not sure what exactly happened to both, other than there might be some rumblings about the McGill situation. There is still time, but they're also getting to the points where they take it up a level or they start to drift into that journeyman/bubble player mold.

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11-14-2006, 03:59 PM
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I'm also starting to worry about Hollwegs lack of offence, and i believe it will cost him his place in time maybe a season or two. Hopefully he picks it up a level and gets about 15 points at least per season.

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11-15-2006, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz View Post
I'm also starting to worry about Hollwegs lack of offence, and i believe it will cost him his place in time maybe a season or two. Hopefully he picks it up a level and gets about 15 points at least per season.
Frankly I couldn't care less if Hollweg ever shows up on the scoresheet, the energy he provides the team from those bone-jarring hits he throws is enough for me...

I just hope Rangers Brass feels the same way.

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11-15-2006, 12:41 AM
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Murray came in after this summer in a bad shape and has been a liability since the beginning of the year, which is why even Downey is playing ahead of him. But I wouldn't take Hossa for free, so don't worry. We don't want Hossa.

I still like Murray and he can be the 13th foward on my team though.

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11-15-2006, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I wouldn't take the words of some panic-stricken Habs fans too seriously... Murray may be off to a slow start, but I think we all know basically what he is. From the 4th line, with some PK time, he doesn't hurt anybody. He's neither asset nor liability, he just does his job for the most part, decent, replaceable, but why bother replacing him? Nobody slotted into the same fringe role is going to do anything different. He had a bit more opportunity with the Habs last year than he has thus far this year, but played a bit better too... ample time for things to swing back the other way. Any Habs fan who "hates" Murray is asking for some rolly-eye smilies IMO.
I don't understand this at all. Murray is fine. Downey has been worked into the lineup because he is Carbonneau's ex-teammate and buddy and is there to add experience and character to a young lineup. Murray will be a Montreal Canadien for a long time to come. He has speed and is willing to muck it up. Decent hands for a grinder too.

Hossa isn't going to cut it in the NHL, that's been obvious for some time. When someone finally realizes that he's really a centerman who hates to carry the puck, he could click with a scorer who is also a skilled puck carrier (uh...like his brother Marian...which is probably why he plays like that in the first place). But he has absolutely no clue in the offensive zone and doesn't know how to use his shot. I think he's reached the point where he might be discouraged/playing for the check.

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11-15-2006, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rangers_23 View Post
Frankly I couldn't care less if Hollweg ever shows up on the scoresheet, the energy he provides the team from those bone-jarring hits he throws is enough for me...

I just hope Rangers Brass feels the same way.
I think to some extent they do, but they also need at least some production from those 4th line guys and frankly that has been VERY below average.

I think it's a double edged sword. You love the energy but a fourth line consisting of Hollweg and Ortmeyer produces almost no offense either, even by 4th line standards.

You hope that you can get at least one guy to get in the 10 goal neighborhood while provided that energy. Right now neither Ortmeyer or Hollweg have really shown they can even break into double digit goals.

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11-15-2006, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Murray certainly ranks as a disappointment for me.

Not that he was going to be a star, but he was a character guy who would fight, pop in some points and be a team leader.

Really liked his game and thought it would translate well to the pro game, but it hasn't materialized.

Him and Hollweg kind of surprised me with their lack of offensive skills at the pro level so far. Thought both could potentially be third line guys with a lot of grit and some ability.

Not sure what exactly happened to both, other than there might be some rumblings about the McGill situation. There is still time, but they're also getting to the points where they take it up a level or they start to drift into that journeyman/bubble player mold.
While Murray has been a disappointment so far, Hollweg's game has improved. Consider that not long ago he was getting 7-8 shifts. Now Renney has enough confidence to elevate Ryan to 11-12 minutes a night and the third line. Ryan's skating has gotten better as well and he's staying more disciplined, even baiting guys into extra penalties. I am pleased.

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Old
11-15-2006, 02:31 AM
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While Murray has been a disappointment so far, Hollweg's game has improved. Consider that not long ago he was getting 7-8 shifts. Now Renney has enough confidence to elevate Ryan to 11-12 minutes a night and the third line. Ryan's skating has gotten better as well and he's staying more disciplined, even baiting guys into extra penalties. I am pleased.
His ability to check and provide spark is without question.

But at some pont, there has to be at least some points to speak off and Hollweg (if possible) has shown even less inclanation for scoring than Ortmeyer. Energy or not there's only so many non-scorers a team can carry.

That's often what seperates the guys who stick around long term from the guys who find themselves bouncing from team to team.

Hollweg's main objective isn't too score, but with linemates like Ortmeyer or even Orr there has to at least be something or else that's a mighty tough hit to take as a team.

Energy is nice, but if teams know your guys simply cannot score than it really lessens the impact.

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