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So...what does Martin do now?

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Old
11-14-2006, 01:27 PM
  #26
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No need to flame you Lola. I think that was a good assessment. Not sure I agree with moving the 3rd liners up, but a message does need to be sent!

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11-14-2006, 01:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PantherBlood6 View Post
i'm not in full panic mode yet. i still see alot of good in this team, they just make alot of elementary mistakes. for the most part, we have played a good hockey game but end up losing because of penalties/stupid mistakes. those things can be corrected....but they better do it soon because you can just feel the season slipping away like it did last november.

there isn't much martin (or anyone) can do at this point. no team wants to quit on the season this early...hell, the flyers are 3-13 and they are even looking for immediate help. no one is going to trade any of their (good) players unless they have a contract they want to dump or are considered dead weight.

i actually feel we missed an oppurtunity yesterday when the ducks dealt fedoruk and chistov. i would have taken both of those guys and ran. fedoruk is one of the few enforcers that can play a little bit. chistov has struggled but still has alot of ability. he hasn't struggled because of a lack of effort either (huselius)...he hustles and is skilled, i feel most guys like that will eventually find success.

I'd take those guys, too. Other than Fedoruk's face wqas rearranged by Boogey and he may not be as effective right away.

I'd like to see laraque here. He can't be any more of a liability than Campbell, and he is definitely a guy who almost everyone in the league fears.

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Old
11-14-2006, 01:41 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherBlood6 View Post
i'm not in full panic mode yet. i still see alot of good in this team, they just make alot of elementary mistakes. for the most part, we have played a good hockey game but end up losing because of penalties/stupid mistakes. those things can be corrected....but they better do it soon because you can just feel the season slipping away like it did last november.

there isn't much martin (or anyone) can do at this point. no team wants to quit on the season this early...hell, the flyers are 3-13 and they are even looking for immediate help. no one is going to trade any of their (good) players unless they have a contract they want to dump or are considered dead weight.

i actually feel we missed an oppurtunity yesterday when the ducks dealt fedoruk and chistov. i would have taken both of those guys and ran. fedoruk is one of the few enforcers that can play a little bit. chistov has struggled but still has alot of ability. he hasn't struggled because of a lack of effort either (huselius)...he hustles and is skilled, i feel most guys like that will eventually find success.
Not sure if I would've gone for Fedoruk at this point in time...I'm not sure he's even cleared to play yet which makes me wonder just how bad his facial injury (broken orbital bone I believe...courtesy of Boogaard and Cairns prior to) is that Anaheim (Burke) was so quick to give him up. It was a brilliant move sending him back to Philly though, where he was a fan favorite. I really hope the guy gets back on the ice. In the meantime, Philly's been rotating guys like Triston Grant, Martin Grenier, Ben Eager, and Riley Cote to fill the void Fedoruk can easily replace himself (if healthy). As for Hordichuk...since coming back from injury (ribs), he's been a healthy scratch the past 3 games for Nashville so maybe he's available. The question is...with JM pull the trigger? It'd be a good PR move on the Panthers front as well since Darcy was a fan favorite and attendance is dwindling more and more at the games of late. It's gotten so bad that my gf and I were asked to pretend we were upgraded from the 400 level to 100 level (where our seats already were) between one of the intermissions. The girl (Kirsten?) was nice though and played it off with, "I know this is kind of lame but would you mind..." She said it's not the first time they've been stood up either. Ouch.

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Old
11-14-2006, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Anyone know Martin's e-mail address?

Post after post of complaints and armchair quarterback suggestions of changes...and they all seem to be hitting common themes, which suggests there's a lot of merit to what's being said. So...if anyone can get in touch with Jacques (ahem, *GR* ) and ask him what he thinks about a large number of fans voicing the same complaints over and over about the team...well...maybe there's a chance that there will be a subliminal effect that causes him to listen a little bit.

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11-14-2006, 01:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
I think it's all a moot point. Cohen's not going to fire Martin, Martin's not going to get rid of Horton (or any of our young guys-nor should he). Martin's not going to get any help before this season's over either.

You may as well just get your paper bags ready (for vomitting or placing over your head) and sit tight this season. I don't expect we'll see any major changes before June. Sad, but true. And I don't expect we'll see any superstar draft picks either.

If you read Martin's post-game comments on the Florida Panther's website, he wasn't all that upset over last night's loss. He thinks we played a solid game, we were just unlucky. Maybe he'll change his mind after reviewing the tapes. Who knows.

Signed,

Ambivalent Panther Fan
I couldn't agree more. This season is a wash. These guys can't turn around anything. This team hasn't been able to turn around anything in the last 6 years.

Martin is a passive putz and won't do a thing. Just like you said, his post game comments are bullcrap. This team has lost 11 of the last 14 games. Enough excuses. NO COACH should be that passive after having the run we've had. NO COACH. Not a minor league coach, not a professional coach.

This is getting bloody pathetic. I really am starting to hate Jacques Martin. I know he's busy and all, but like crap man. Take GM or Coach, not both. I'd rather have him being 100% on one of those positions than 50% on both.


Last edited by Happy Girl: 11-14-2006 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Offensive
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Old
11-14-2006, 02:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePanthemarsVolta View Post
Enough excuses.
Yes?

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11-14-2006, 02:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
Yes?
Oh my gosh, how long have you been waiting for that one?

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Old
11-14-2006, 02:23 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
If you are not a fan of the team, then constantly going to that team board to be critical of their team is trolling by definition.

This is just a reminder.
Note taken!

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Old
11-14-2006, 02:33 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Oh my gosh, how long have you been waiting for that one?
Oh, since about 2:30...

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Old
11-14-2006, 02:48 PM
  #35
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I'm just going to say this: Something has to be done.

I also want to make note of one thing: Todd Bertuzzi has not been bad for us. As someone else posted, other teams rush into the offensive zone with speed and do something. We just don't rush. Bertuzzi has actually done things, though. Against Boston he rushed the puck into the zone and gave Nieuwendyk the pass for one of his goals. He skated into the offensive zone, put on the breaks, handed the puck off to Olesz who then passed to Niewy for a goal. He skated with the puck below the goal line and made a nice pass to Horton in the slot who got a goal.

Against Toronto, we were on the powerplay and Bertuzzi took a shot... woah someone from the Panthers actually SHOT the puck! Well Weiss scored off of the rebound.

Against Carolina, Bertuzzi skated into the offensive zone with the puck and took a shot (again! wow!) which deflected off of someone's leg and went to Gelinas, maybe, who scored. Bertuzzi also the got the puck later in the game in the offensive zone off of a turnover, passed it to Jokinen who got it down low to Weiss (it was a 3-on-1, I think) who did a nice little move and scored.

Bertuzzi hasn't been useless because he's actually set up offense a bit and he's actually taken shots. He's rushed the puck into the zone. I don't see guys like Jokinen or Horton or Roberts skating into the zone and shooting the puck, like Bertuzzi has. I also don't see them skating into the zone and making a nice pass, as Bertuzzi has also done before. We dump the puck and lose the race to it or lose the battle for it. We skate into the offensive zone and the defense pokes the puck off of our sticks. We try to make a pass and it doesn't connect (blocked, intercepted, just missed the receiver completely..). We shoot the puck and 50% of the time we miss the net.

We won't know if Bertuzzi can do anything again for us for another 6-8 weeks, and then we have to wait for him to recover to a playing level where we can do things like he has for us so far, but he hasn't been useless in my eyes.

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11-14-2006, 02:56 PM
  #36
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I'm not a fan of trading for the sake of trading.

But, if things continue going down this road, I could very well change my mind. We should not, however, go into rebuilding mode. Nor should we give up our young talent for old-timers. I'm adamant about keeping Bouwmeester and Olesz. Horton is tradeable, so is Jokinen, so is Van Ryn, and so on.

So who to trade for? Proven players--or talented young players--on mediocre teams. A player like Gagne on a slumping Philadelphia time might be an option. Perhaps some phoenix players are available. I'm not talking Doan or Nagy, but perhaps Michalek (add some spark to this powerplay), Boynton, Morris, or Reinprecht. This team needs skill. Toughness intimidates, but intimidation is worthless without the ability to finish. I'm especially in favour of acquiring Morris from the Yotes (a top pairing of Bouw/Salei - Morris is not exactly horrible; certainly an improvement). Who would we trade? That's a different matter.

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11-14-2006, 03:33 PM
  #37
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I know the message gets old when we continue to lose but I still think we have a great team. Everyone on here is panicking and its way to early. What really makes no sense is people saying Newy needs to retire, he has played six full games (and two more which he got injured) and he has 4 goals. When healthy he and Olli are clearly our two best players. I agree the team is deflated when he is not in the lineup, but how would that improve if he retired?

We should have won last night. In fact, if we keep playing like we have the last four games (0-2-2), we will win more than we lose. Lets just sit tight for now. We are 3 games under .500. Lets work on getting back to .500 and in 6-8 weeks when we have Newy and Bert we will start winning consistently. The last thing this team needs is more turnover at the top. Give JM a year from now. Quit panicking, we have a good team. We have had some untimely injuries, some bad calls against us and run into a hot goalie. If we don't get screwed in the Buf game and the SJ game by the refs, we are .500 right now.

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Old
11-14-2006, 03:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySS19 View Post
We won't know if Bertuzzi can do anything again for us for another 6-8 weeks, and then we have to wait for him to recover to a playing level where we can do things like he has for us so far, but he hasn't been useless in my eyes.
The problem is, 6-8 weeks from now is January to mid-January. Which is, as we found out last season, too late to stage a comeback if we're far behind.

Not that I'm jumping on the trade wagon since I don't think we have any assets we could trade that would bring in something to actually improve the team, unless we pass on the draft this year and give up a 1st and 2nd and Stewart to land someone halfway decent. And I mean halfway. Maybe Philly deals us Gagne for that, but I doubt it.

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Old
11-14-2006, 05:41 PM
  #39
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I don't think the Panthers lack heart like the other thread, I think they lack the skill players and speed for this league. Look at our top line: Roberts-Jokinen-Stumpel. Arguably our best line and you've got speed surrounded by slow. We have the problem throughout our lineup. When Bert was here, while not that fast, he added an element of puck control that made up for the lack of speed. I remember watching him the first few games thinking man, they can't stop this guy or take him off the puck. Losing Big Bert hurt us a lot.

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11-14-2006, 05:48 PM
  #40
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Bertuzzi and Bouwmeester are a little similar in the way that they will skate the puck deep into the zone and just skate around other players while keeping control of the puck. I just don't like when that happens and we never get the shot off or anything or even any chances. While those two may be able to skate around the opponent, the other players are not open for the pass much.

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Old
11-14-2006, 06:34 PM
  #41
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Weiss is a top three player? Chuckle

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11-14-2006, 06:41 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySS19 View Post
Bertuzzi and Bouwmeester are a little similar in the way that they will skate the puck deep into the zone and just skate around other players while keeping control of the puck. I just don't like when that happens and we never get the shot off or anything or even any chances. While those two may be able to skate around the opponent, the other players are not open for the pass much.
Yep. Marian Hossa has made a career of two things: emerging from the boards, crossing over the circle, and shooting (or just driving to the net); and puck-controlling his way to the net. But neither of them are exactly Marian material (even if a Bouw-Marian comparison isn't exactly valid).

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Old
11-14-2006, 06:41 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by AKgoalie7 View Post
Weiss is a top three player? Chuckle
Chuckle...NO! He is, however, better than Kiwi, Campbell, Mezei, etc., so he is one of the top players (on this team anyway) and is one of those three who's injured! That's all I was trying to say.

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Old
11-14-2006, 08:44 PM
  #44
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A trade at this point is not really an option. With the new CBA, the season is now basically trade-free until the trade deadline, when players will have gained most of their salaries. Teams are all pretty much next or close to the cap, thus it gets very tricky to pull off any trade of some kind of significance. Nowadays, teams make their moves in the off-season and then it's Hope for the best. The only teams we can look at as a potential trade partner are the ones in the same situation we are in. That is, teams that were expecting good/great things, but have stumbled out of the gate. Still, I only see Ottawa and Philly really looking for a shakeup. Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver are looking for some help but what Edmonton have inquired about (Van Ryn) is pretty much untouchable considering our D and his contract and Vancouver is also looking for help on D, but cheaper and Morrison is probably the only guy being shopped as trade bait. Boston is looking for goaltending, so it is pretty safe to say they are not looking at us for an answer. The yotes are probably looking at trades, but do they have anything we really want? I don't think so. This is not the time to make a trade just to make a trade and ending up overpaying with another UFA on our hands.

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11-14-2006, 11:11 PM
  #45
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After watching tonight's Wild/Coyotes game, where the Coyotes came from behind and surprisingly beat the Wild 4-3, I realized Georges Laraque really changed the entire game for the Yotes with a good fight against Derek Boogard when they were down 2-0 I believe. I feel he would be a very good example of a player we'd need to obtain. No huge names just yet since we're not in total panic mode, but more of a momentum change type of player who can defend his teammates whenever a cheap shot is made as well as score once in a blue moon. That's what we had with Hordichuk a few years ago.

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11-14-2006, 11:32 PM
  #46
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After watching tonight's Wild/Coyotes game, where the Coyotes came from behind and surprisingly beat the Wild 4-3, I realized Georges Laraque really changed the entire game for the Yotes with a good fight against Derek Boogard when they were down 2-0 I believe. I feel he would be a very good example of a player we'd need to obtain. No huge names just yet since we're not in total panic mode, but more of a momentum change type of player who can defend his teammates whenever a cheap shot is made as well as score once in a blue moon. That's what we had with Hordichuk a few years ago.
Not only the fight, Laraque also had 2 assists. I'd LOVE to have him here.

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Old
11-15-2006, 12:26 AM
  #47
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Third, call up Ari Vallin and sit Mezei for a few games.
I was thinking that from the beggining

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Old
11-15-2006, 02:39 AM
  #48
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What does Martin do now? Hmm.

Hire Bobby Clarke as General Manager, Keenan as asst. coach.
Then retires and Keenan takes over as coach.

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11-15-2006, 05:17 PM
  #49
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I've noticed something. When Neiwy's in the lineup, we play better. We play more consistantly. When he's out, the team falls apart after a blown play.

I hate to say this, but I don't believe Olli should be wearing the "C"...

Olli's a good player, but I don't feel he's a leader. Nor do I feel the one who wore that letter before him was any better.

The last Captain we had worth wearing that letter was Mellanby. Someone who overachieved every game and ALWAYS had a winning attitude and a great bond with his teammates.

We have someone that would fill that role perfectly if it weren't for his bum back.

We've changed owners, coaches, players, GMs, etc. The one thing that's been consistant? Over the course of our entire slump, we've never had a true team leader wearing the C. We've simply slapped it on the guy scoring the most goals.

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11-15-2006, 05:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Madhatter73 View Post
I've noticed something. When Neiwy's in the lineup, we play better. We play more consistantly. When he's out, the team falls apart after a blown play.

I hate to say this, but I don't believe Olli should be wearing the "C"...

Olli's a good player, but I don't feel he's a leader. Nor do I feel the one who wore that letter before him was any better.

The last Captain we had worth wearing that letter was Mellanby. Someone who overachieved every game and ALWAYS had a winning attitude and a great bond with his teammates.

We have someone that would fill that role perfectly if it weren't for his bum back.

We've changed owners, coaches, players, GMs, etc. The one thing that's been consistant? Over the course of our entire slump, we've never had a true team leader wearing the C. We've simply slapped it on the guy scoring the most goals.
My guess is that Olli leads by example. I don't think the coach handed him captaincy just for point production.

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