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Alexander Mogilny = HHOF ?

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Old
11-17-2006, 11:09 AM
  #26
God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
That 95 season Mogilny had Peter Zezel and Cliff Ronning or worse as his linemates
Ronning was a very good playmaking centre, actually. An excellent stickhandler who saw the ice very well. Mogilny could do a lot worse than Cliff Ronning.

The thing about Mogilny is linemates weren't always an issue for him. When he was going, you just needed a player - a defenceman, a winger, a centre - who could get him the puck. He wasn't as unreliant as Bure, but he was still a guy who just needed a teammate to get him the puck. But when he was in his moods or his funks, it didn't matter who his linemate was, he wasn't going to produce.

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11-17-2006, 11:43 AM
  #27
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I think Mogilny is definitely on the bubble for HHOF. Obviously, he fits the descriptions above: occasionally takes a night off, could have done more, etc.

But, his pros may outweight his cons:

1 stanley cup
1 rocket richard
1 lady byng
1st russian to defect for the NHL
over a PPG average

I think some with less credentials have made the cut...

I'm a huge fan, so I hope he makes it

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11-17-2006, 12:01 PM
  #28
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I hope he does. scored 76 one year. scored his first goal on his first shift ever in the nhl.. loved his quotes when he played in toronto. came over from Russian at a less than opportune time

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Old
11-17-2006, 12:23 PM
  #29
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I think he'll made it...

Awesome season of 76 goals in 77 games. (scoring leader that year) He won a Cup, got a Lady bing.

Stats: 1032 points in 990 games...

You got a big chance when you're in the select club of 1000 career
points

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11-17-2006, 12:56 PM
  #30
Psycho Papa Joe
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Mogilny > Joey Mullen. Both offensive minded RW's, but Mogilny had a better PPG for his career and higher peak value. Mogilny's greatest accomplishment is a 76 goal season. Mullen's is being the first American 1000pt man. Not sure who was first, but Mogilny and Fedorov were pretty close to being the first Russian 1000 pt men.

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11-17-2006, 01:24 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Mogilny > Joey Mullen. Both offensive minded RW's, but Mogilny had a better PPG for his career and higher peak value. Mogilny's greatest accomplishment is a 76 goal season. Mullen's is being the first American 1000pt man. Not sure who was first, but Mogilny and Fedorov were pretty close to being the first Russian 1000 pt men.
But take a deeper look. Mullen had seven 40-goal seasons. Mogilny had three 40-goal seasons, and a 39-goal season. You can cite era all you want, but Mogilny's biggest problem was motivation, not the era. He had the talent to score 50 goals a year post 1995-96. But he rarely used it.

Mullen won three Cups. Mogilny won one. Mullen was a first-team all-star the year the Flames won the Cup. He was an important addition for the Pens the year they won their first Cup, provided pretty good leadership. In their second Cup, he was injured most of the post-season. He also tied for the Flames playoff scoring lead when they reached the final in 1986.

Mogilny? Well, he won a Cup in 2000 with New Jersey, but was he a key player? No. If Mogilny only gets seven points in the post-season, you know he wasn't a key player, because he doesn't give you much defensive play, leadership or grit. He went goalless for about a month when the Devils went to the Cup final in 2001. He's over a point-per-game for his career in the regular season, but he scores at under a 60-point pace in the postseason.

Sergei Fedorov belongs in the HHOF. Mogilny does not. Fedorov was a key player on three Cup champions, and won a Hart and two Selkes. That's good enough for me.

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11-17-2006, 02:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Ronning was a very good playmaking centre, actually. An excellent stickhandler who saw the ice very well. Mogilny could do a lot worse than Cliff Ronning.

The thing about Mogilny is linemates weren't always an issue for him. When he was going, you just needed a player - a defenceman, a winger, a centre - who could get him the puck. He wasn't as unreliant as Bure, but he was still a guy who just needed a teammate to get him the puck. But when he was in his moods or his funks, it didn't matter who his linemate was, he wasn't going to produce.
I strongly disagree. Mogilny plays his best hockey when he has a playmaking centre who can skate with him. That's why he was so unsuccessful with Messier, Messier couldn't keep up and Mogilny couldn't score. He gets down like that and he goes into a deep funk. Give him a Lafontaine or Ronning who can keep up, and he can score.

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Old
11-17-2006, 02:36 PM
  #33
lucky13
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Center
Born Jan 18 1961 -- Edmonton, ALTA
Height 6.01 -- Weight 205
Selected by Edmonton Oilers round 3 #48 overall 1979 NHL Entry Draft



Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
1976-77 Spruce Grove Mets AJHL 57 27 39 66 91
1977-78 St. Albert Saints AJHL 54 25 49 74 194
1977-78 Portland Winter Hawks WCHL -- -- -- -- -- 7 4 1 5 2
1978-79 Indianapolis Racers WHA 5 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
1978-79 Cincinnati Stingers WHA 47 1 10 11 58 3 0 0 0 0
1979-80 Houston Apollos CHL 4 0 3 3 4 -- -- -- -- --
1979-80 Edmonton Oilers NHL 75 12 21 33 120 3 1 2 3 2
1980-81 Edmonton Oilers NHL 72 23 40 63 102 9 2 5 7 13
1981-82 Edmonton Oilers NHL 78 50 38 88 119 5 1 2 3 8
1982-83 Edmonton Oilers NHL 77 48 58 106 72 15 15 6 21 14
1983-84 Edmonton Oilers NHL 73 37 64 101 165 19 8 18 26 19
1984-85 Edmonton Oilers NHL 55 23 31 54 57 18 12 13 25 12
1985-86 Edmonton Oilers NHL 63 35 49 84 68 10 4 6 10 18
1986-87 Edmonton Oilers NHL 77 37 70 107 73 21 12 16 28 16
1987-88 Edmonton Oilers NHL 77 37 74 111 103 19 11 23 34 29
1988-89 Edmonton Oilers NHL 72 33 61 94 130 7 1 11 12 8
1989-90 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79 45 84 129 79 22 9 22 31 20
1990-91 Edmonton Oilers NHL 53 12 52 64 34 18 4 11 15 16
1991-92 New York Rangers NHL 79 35 72 107 76 11 7 7 14 6
1992-93 New York Rangers NHL 75 25 66 91 72 -- -- -- -- --
1993-94 New York Rangers NHL 76 26 58 84 76 23 12 18 30 33
1994-95 New York Rangers NHL 46 14 39 53 40 10 3 10 13 8
1995-96 New York Rangers NHL 74 47 52 99 122 11 4 7 11 16
1996-97 New York Rangers NHL 71 36 48 84 88 15 3 9 12 6
1997-98 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 22 38 60 58 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Vancouver Canucks NHL 59 13 35 48 33 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 Vancouver Canucks NHL 66 17 37 54 30 -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 New York Rangers NHL 82 24 43 67 89 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 New York Rangers NHL 41 7 16 23 32 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 New York Rangers NHL 78 18 22 40 30 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 New York Rangers NHL 76 18 25 43 42 -- -- -- -- --
WHA Totals 52 1 10 11 58 3 0 0 0 0
NHL Totals 1756 694 1193 1887 1910 236 109 186 295 244


not a play making center?

ummm.............

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Old
11-17-2006, 02:54 PM
  #34
Nalyd Psycho
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not a play making center?

ummm.............
The opperative words were "Who can skate with him" not "playmaking centre". I think even many GMs got confused by that one. Goal scorer + playmaker = success, right? Not necissarily.

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11-17-2006, 04:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I strongly disagree. Mogilny plays his best hockey when he has a playmaking centre who can skate with him. That's why he was so unsuccessful with Messier, Messier couldn't keep up and Mogilny couldn't score. He gets down like that and he goes into a deep funk. Give him a Lafontaine or Ronning who can keep up, and he can score.
But motivation was Mogilny's biggest weakness during those years. If he's playing with his head and heart in the game, you could put him out there with an average centre, and he'd dominate. He was that talented. Tikkanen once referred to him as the most talented player in the league, and there were times I'd be hard-pressed to disagree. But his problem was inconsistency. If he had that desire or determination or will to score, nobody would question his place in the HHOF.

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11-17-2006, 05:01 PM
  #36
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While true, my observation has been that he gets that determination from playing with a complimentary center.

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11-17-2006, 05:15 PM
  #37
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So is Mogilny doesn't make the HOF - does that mean, either does a guy like Sundin?

I think Mogilny sooner or later makes it - being the first All-Star Russian to defect, and basically opening up the door to the rest - just that alone might get him in.

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11-17-2006, 05:17 PM
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So is Mogilny doesn't make the HOF - does that mean, either does a guy like Sundin?
I don't see what differentiates Sundin from a Norm Ullman type, so, no, Sundin wouldn't make it.

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11-17-2006, 05:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Mogilny > Joey Mullen. Both offensive minded RW's, but Mogilny had a better PPG for his career and higher peak value. Mogilny's greatest accomplishment is a 76 goal season. Mullen's is being the first American 1000pt man. Not sure who was first, but Mogilny and Fedorov were pretty close to being the first Russian 1000 pt men.
Feds got it first but if Mogilny hadn't gotten injured last season he would've hit the 1000th point mark before Sergei

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Old
11-17-2006, 05:43 PM
  #40
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Dunno if Sundin will make it. PPG player and long time captain of Toronto with superb clutch will help. Not to mention his play internationally for Sweden. But he hasn't got any awards to mention.

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11-17-2006, 06:00 PM
  #41
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I wince sometimes at the criteria of "he was the first to get in the nhl from X" stuff a lot.I don't think it's much of a credible thing for hall of fame entry and certainly not in Mogilny's case. Will Anze Kopitar be a shoo in if he ends up with 2 all star selections,300 goals and 800 points in his career and what tips the balance is he was the first guy from Slovenia to make the NHL? I mean,someone has to be the first guy after all and when we're talking Russian hockey players the only thing that was keeping them out for decades was a communist government,the minute it fell you just knew players were going to start playing here.I admire the guys spunk for taking a risk and defecting but that really isn't Hall of fame criteria at all.If he get's in it should be for what he accomplished in his career.if Mogilny was the first guy to score 80 goals or something i could see the point but this "he was the first Russian the nhl stuff..................that's totally immaterial to whether he should get in the hall of fame for me.

Is Paul Kariya getting in because he was an all star plus the first Japanese Canadian to make the big show and perform well?

Where does that stuff end? Let the Hall voters look at Mogilny the player.

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11-17-2006, 06:38 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I don't see what differentiates Sundin from a Norm Ullman type, so, no, Sundin wouldn't make it.
Well ''Norm Ullman types'' usually make the HOF, right? Like... Norm Ullman.

I'd put Sundin in. A point per game player in a low scoring era, that can play solid defensively and physically, is CLUTCH, has a million overtime goals, and always puts up star calibre numbers even when he has no help. ALWAYS. I see him all the time against my Habs and there are few players I fear more, been like that as long as I can remember.

No Cups, but that's because he's never had the supporting cast. There's nothing in Sundin's play to suggest he can't win if he has something to work with. Elite international player with a Gold medal.

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11-17-2006, 06:40 PM
  #43
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I would say Sundin makes it to the HHOF... just not Mogilny.

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11-17-2006, 06:46 PM
  #44
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Oh yeah, on topic... no to Mogilny, too many negative connotations, anybody compared to him is probably an enigma. Sundin on the other hand is superlative, anybody compared to him would be blue chip.

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11-17-2006, 07:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
Well ''Norm Ullman types'' usually make the HOF, right? Like... Norm Ullman.

I'd put Sundin in. A point per game player in a low scoring era, that can play solid defensively and physically, is CLUTCH, has a million overtime goals, and always puts up star calibre numbers even when he has no help. ALWAYS. I see him all the time against my Habs and there are few players I fear more, been like that as long as I can remember.

No Cups, but that's because he's never had the supporting cast. There's nothing in Sundin's play to suggest he can't win if he has something to work with. Elite international player with a Gold medal.
Oops, my bad, should have checked first. So, yeah, Sundin could make it. Not a shoe-in, but a possibility for sure.

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Old
11-18-2006, 06:23 PM
  #46
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I can't see it.. He had the skills, but wasn't consistently dominant enough. When you consider the logjam coming up for the Hall, I can't picture him getting in. A very, very good player, but not a Hall of Famer.

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