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More fuel to the Murray/Nabokov fire!

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11-18-2006, 05:15 PM
  #76
Bill Ladd
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Now who's making things up?

Who's making things up? (I'll give you a hint, you are.) I think you are being defensive. I never said Nabby wasn't a very good goalie. (In fact I said that he was several times), just that he's not as good as his contract. And that there are other options that suit the B's better.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
1) He had multiple injuries. A groin injury that bothered him all year long and required off season surgery. Many goalies were hurt last season after not playing a whole year due to lockout.
Yep. Many goalies were hurt by the off-season. And many weren't. But when you're the 5th highest paid goalie (cap-wise) in the league you're expected to be better than most. (Some would argue that you are supposed to be better than all but 4 guys, but we know that's not true.) You're probably expected to do things in the off-season (i.e. NOT be inactive) to make sure you don't have an injury ravaged season. But hey, I'll grant you that last year wasn't his fault and as I said in my post, he's back to playing well, so he's proven that he's a good goalie again. The argument I was trying to make was that even so-called 'consistent' goalies can play like dogs sometimes, that nobody is a sure bet. And that we just need a goalie to play well for 7 months, and there are lots of guys available that are having good seasons who can do that for less.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
2) By the time he got healthy (in March), Toskala was playing on fire and there was no time to incorporate Nabby back as the starter because we were fighting for our lives to make the playoffs. To win you go with the hot goaltender.
Yeah, I know. Usually when you lose the starting job. It's because the other guy is playing well.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
3) Nabokov was given that 5 million contract DURING his crappy year. Hmmm, that means either Doug Wilson and Warren Strelow are pretty dumb hockey people or they realized Nabokov is just having an injury plagued year and will bounce back when he heals. Fast forward to this season, wow, those are some smart guys.
You and I both know that lots of people in the hockey world were shocked that Wilson gave Nabakov that contract. Not because he was playing poorly, but because it was too much, even for a good goalie. I think you're going to find it's harder to move than you think. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. But IMHO, the only way Wilson moves Nabakov is for a worse contract like Jovo's.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
4) You keep blaming Nabokov for the fact that Toskala is as good as he is. Not sure how that logic works for you. In reality, it just means we have two kick *** goalies, either of which can be traded for needed assets.
I do? I didn't know I was blaming anyone. I do know that if the playoffs started today, Nabakov would BACK UP! But I also understand that one team's back up is another team's starter, and like I've said about 10 times already Nabakov is a very good goalie. And while Toskala may be the most tradeable asset in the NHL because of his contract, I think we're going to see that Nabakov will be much harder to move for the same reason. So many teams need goalies, but Nabby hasn't moved yet. Why? Because Nabakov's not worth his contract.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
5) Some stats for you to chew on: Nabokov's career playoff stats:
35 games, GAA 2.14, SV% .920, with 4 shutouts
Yeah. I wish I had admitted somewhere that Nabakov was a very good goalie.

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Originally Posted by HipCzech View Post
I'm NOT trying to persuade you that trading for Nabokov is a good idea for your team. I'm just tired of reading your misinformed posts.
I know the feeling.

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11-18-2006, 05:57 PM
  #77
Bill Ladd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neelynugs View Post
probably...i can't argue with the fact that toskala has the edge on nabokov right now. that's definitely true from what i've seen. but nabokov is a victim of circumstance...he's not really a "backup" as you're saying. he's a guy playing half the games, splitting with another guy who is extremely talented. we're not talking about a rob tallas here.
Absolutely. My intention wasn't to prove or disprove who the starter in SJ was, because on half of the teams in the league, Nabakov starts. I just wanted to illustrate that he wasn't immune to having a bad year or even getting outplayed when he was on his game, because if you are going to commit $5.4mil to a goalie, and give up several key assets to acquire him and forego any key UFA signings because of him, he better be immune to those things like Brodeur, Luongo and Kipper are.

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Originally Posted by neelynugs View Post
dunham has done well this year, but i've seen that show for years, and it is basically a glorified rerun. he can't carry the ball in this league anymore - he's just a good backup. legace probably hurt himself by asking for too much coin this summer. next thing he knows, mostly every spot is taken and he's dancing around by himself (which is never a good thing ). i think he's a clear upgrade on thomas, but he's not as good as nabokov...however, you are talking about a guy who is free to leave this summer, which gives chia plenty of flexibility.
I like that most of these guys are UFA's as well. It gives them the option to try out a Legace or a Dunham, without closing the door on Toivo returning this year, and if none of those options work out, they have the flexibility to sign a goalie who's more on par with Nabakov, and use the trade of Murray to fill other holes. So you get better goaltending AND a better roster, instead of better goaltending and a weaker roster.

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