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Old
11-18-2006, 11:50 AM
  #26
FearTheFlyers
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post

knowing you really dislike Rathje, i'd rather they waive Hatcher as i think he brings MUCH less to the table... besides being the only really vocal veteran on the team.

I usually don't disagree with you very much but I think that Hatcher is much much better than Rathje.

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Old
11-18-2006, 12:11 PM
  #27
Jester
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Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
I usually don't disagree with you very much but I think that Hatcher is much much better than Rathje.
Rathje looks worse than Hatcher a lot of the time, but he's a fair amount more effective than Hatcher in my opinion... stats don't tell everything, however:

gp g a p +/- pim atoi
Derian Hatcher 19 0 0 0 -12 18 23:56
Mike Rathje 13 0 1 1 -6 4 20:37

sorta displays that... bear in mind that Pitkanen is also a nightmare to play with at times. now, this is granting that Rathje has played a few less games, but Hatcher just got himself a nice +3 boost, which i'm betting is an outlier the way his play has gone.

they're both not all that great, and neither is earning their cash... but i would get rid of Hatcher who isn't even bringing the physical side that he's supposed to be bringing at the moment.

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Old
11-18-2006, 01:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight25 View Post
Definitely not worth jumping down someone's throat for a trade proposal. Regardless of the fact that most posts are trade proposals now, it's not like its a bad thing to come up with a possibility and discuss it. After all, isn't this what this board is about?

And like Jester said, if you follow that logic, why talk about the NHL when we all have no control over it?

I wasnīt trying to be rude, but the fact that people ask the fans of a team if they accept a trade is kinda meaningless? They could ask what you think of a trade and if you would like to see it happen, but itīs not like anyone in here have the power to either accept or reject a tradeproposal?

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Old
11-18-2006, 01:35 PM
  #29
Jester
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Originally Posted by bilros View Post
I wasnīt trying to be rude, but the fact that people ask the fans of a team if they accept a trade is kinda meaningless? They could ask what you think of a trade and if you would like to see it happen, but itīs not like anyone in here have the power to either accept or reject a tradeproposal?
presumably no one in here has the power to do anything... thus it's all watercooler talk.

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Old
11-18-2006, 01:37 PM
  #30
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If Flames fans think Krahn can be or will be an NHLer, then why not Kipper for Forsberg or some sort of package involving these two?

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Old
11-18-2006, 01:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
If Flames fans think Krahn can be or will be an NHLer, then why not Kipper for Forsberg or some sort of package involving these two?
...

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Old
11-18-2006, 02:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilros View Post
I wasnīt trying to be rude, but the fact that people ask the fans of a team if they accept a trade is kinda meaningless? They could ask what you think of a trade and if you would like to see it happen, but itīs not like anyone in here have the power to either accept or reject a tradeproposal?
Welcome to the internet. Its all entertainment, except for GKJ. If he likes a trade proposal he calls Holmgren and orders him to make it happen

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Old
11-18-2006, 05:05 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
knowing you really dislike Rathje, i'd rather they waive Hatcher as i think he brings MUCH less to the table... besides being the only really vocal veteran on the team. however, Rathje may be going on the IR at some point as well... which will make him a moot issue.
I'd like to hear your reasoning for saying Hatcher brings less to the table.

In my eyes, Hatcher actually tries out there, I mean really tries. At least he tried to lose weight and be a better player over the summer. I think he'd win in a foot race against Rathje. Hatcher tries to hit people and sometimes still lays a good hit on a guy in open ice. If someone is banging away at the goalie, he'll at least try to move them out of the way.

Too many times we have watched Rathje stand around while someone is in the goal mouth looking for loose pucks. He just doesn't try because he knows how slow he is. He's constantly getting burned by people like LeClair. He tries to throw one hit a game and usually misses and can't get back in position. He's rarely successful at clearing the zone with the puck because his puck skills are just terrible. Everything he does is in a sloth-like speed, it's amazing really. I've never seen a player more useless. I'd rather have Therien back there right now.

Besides the on-ice play, Hatcher is a better leader and has a shorter contract. Rathje is the biggest hindrance on this team.

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Old
11-18-2006, 06:17 PM
  #34
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I'd like to hear your reasoning for saying Hatcher brings less to the table.

In my eyes, Hatcher actually tries out there, I mean really tries. At least he tried to lose weight and be a better player over the summer. I think he'd win in a foot race against Rathje. Hatcher tries to hit people and sometimes still lays a good hit on a guy in open ice. If someone is banging away at the goalie, he'll at least try to move them out of the way.

Too many times we have watched Rathje stand around while someone is in the goal mouth looking for loose pucks. He just doesn't try because he knows how slow he is. He's constantly getting burned by people like LeClair. He tries to throw one hit a game and usually misses and can't get back in position. He's rarely successful at clearing the zone with the puck because his puck skills are just terrible. Everything he does is in a sloth-like speed, it's amazing really. I've never seen a player more useless. I'd rather have Therien back there right now.

Besides the on-ice play, Hatcher is a better leader and has a shorter contract. Rathje is the biggest hindrance on this team.
Hatcher is guilty of everything you're seeing in Rathje... and to a greater degree usually. I respect his effort to lose some weight and improve, but it hasn't materialized. Neither are good with the puck on their stick, but Hatcher is downright brutal when the puck is on his stick down low (which was the case last year as well). If he was playing mean, he'd be bringing at least that to the table... but the only game i can recall him playing physical in this year was the loss @NJ when he had some nice hits.

Hatcher has watched more than a few guy banging away on net without taking the man out... the Rusty goal against TB earlier in the year stands out in particular, but it's certainly not isolated. Both are a problem, but i just think Hatcher is worse.

Rathje is at least struggling through an injury, what is Hatcher's excuse?

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Old
11-19-2006, 02:27 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
If Flames fans think Krahn can be or will be an NHLer, then why not Kipper for Forsberg or some sort of package involving these two?
Because kipper locked in at $3.5 for two more years is worth a lot more then Forsberg at $5.7 for one year.

besides the whole point of this thread is the idea that calgary needs to try to win the cup now while philly gets some youth that would allow them to try and win in a couple years.

the flames NEED kipper to win the cup! don't get me wrong, i did say Krahn could be a started in the NHL, and i do still think that. but not over kipper. Most teams in the NHL would sit there current starter if they had Kipper.

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Old
11-19-2006, 04:13 PM
  #36
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hatcher is guilty of everything you're seeing in Rathje... and to a greater degree usually. I respect his effort to lose some weight and improve, but it hasn't materialized. Neither are good with the puck on their stick, but Hatcher is downright brutal when the puck is on his stick down low (which was the case last year as well). If he was playing mean, he'd be bringing at least that to the table... but the only game i can recall him playing physical in this year was the loss @NJ when he had some nice hits.

Hatcher has watched more than a few guy banging away on net without taking the man out... the Rusty goal against TB earlier in the year stands out in particular, but it's certainly not isolated. Both are a problem, but i just think Hatcher is worse.

Rathje is at least struggling through an injury, what is Hatcher's excuse?
I think Hatcher is playing better then Rathje NOW, but because of the injury. When both are healthy, Rathje IMO is much better defensively then Hatcher. Rathje actually has never been a terrible skater north/south. His lateral movement has never been that great, but he made up for it by being good positionally. Unfortunately, I think he is really struggling with his back. I dont know if anyone else on here has had bad back problems before, but speaking from experience, it is not fun. It really limits your felxibility and ability to even move sometimes.

People seem to forget that Rathje played his whole career, before the Flyers, in the western conference where it was always much more wide open then the east. He always played against the other team's top line and did very well. I just think the back is killing any effectiveness he could have at the moment, not to mention Pitkanen making him look even worse.

What I would do is put Rathje on IR. If we are still crap in the next month, waive Hatcher. Bring up Baumgartner. I think he is more then adequate to play on a third pairing on this team. Or dare I say, Jonnson??

Pitkanen, Meyer, Jones, Picard, Baumgartner, Hatcher, Jonnson cant play any worse then what we are seeing at this point, can they??

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