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GDT 11/22/06 Thrashers @ Caps 7 PM

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:57 PM
  #101
Shameus
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Originally Posted by toph2o View Post
Or the old Detroit-Colorado grudge matches...
Wings are my second favorite team....used to love to hate the Avs and loved those games.

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11-23-2006, 12:21 AM
  #102
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Caps fan here. What happened wasn't just because of tonight, it goes back to earlier games this season and even last season. It just happened that Sutton trying to decapitate Green pushed the Caps over the edge. Atlanta has a reputation for taking cheap shots and tonight the Caps made them pay up. You might find this hard to believe, but before tonight the Caps actually had the lowest number of fighting majors in the league.

I'm looking forward to Dec 15. Maybe we can finally start having a REAL rivalry.

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Old
11-23-2006, 01:49 AM
  #103
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Watching the replay just now, and doing a little amateur lip-reading, shortly after Hanlon asked HiBob if he wanted to go, Hartley was smirking at their bench and asked Hanlon twice, "How many times have you been in the playoffs?"

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Old
11-23-2006, 03:23 AM
  #104
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Haha the Caps must really hate Sim. This time he didn't score, but he had an assist. Told y'all that the vets will have to step up and at least one of them answered the call. One goal, one helper and he won 15 of 22 faceoffs. Bobby Holik.

Glad to see that Kovy got out of his funk and scored.

I hope that www.hockeyfights.com will have some of the fights on later today.

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Old
11-23-2006, 08:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Käptäin Kärppä View Post
I hope that www.hockeyfights.com will have some of the fights on later today.
They will, I made sure of that

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Old
11-23-2006, 10:31 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by gamera View Post
they are replaying the game at midnight...I'm taping it

I'm still old school with the VCR though....
It's also right here for you to check out, unfortunately you have to deal with hearing the Caps announcers justify it.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/videos/

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Old
11-23-2006, 10:49 AM
  #107
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My thoughts on the whole affair ...

The Caps were justifiably pissed at Sutton. If he left his feet, it was barely at all; however, he did get his elbows way up high and if he'd connected with Green would've really messed the kid up. Just because he didn't hit Green doesn't mean it's OK. If someone took a baseball swing with his stick at Marian Hossa's head, we'd all be furious even if the player missed his mark. I didn't see footage of Kovalchuk grabbing Clark's cage but that's completely uncalled for if he did do it.

That said, the Caps reaction was ridiculous. Throwing out Donald Brashear and John Erskine to take care of Vitaly Vishnevski and Marian Hossa? Brian Sutherby sucker punches Brad Larsen twice on the following faceoff? We're the goon team? Glen Hanlon is making chicken gestures towards our bench and Bob Hartley is the one with the bush league reputation? What a joke.

If the Caps really wanted to do things right, they'd send Brashear after Sutton in the next game. My guess is they wanted to put on a show for the hometown fans, though. Lord knows they can't give them hockey so they might as well give them some reason to pay attention to their joke of a team.

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Old
11-23-2006, 02:40 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by The Maltais Falcon View Post
My thoughts on the whole affair ...

The Caps were justifiably pissed at Sutton. If he left his feet, it was barely at all; however, he did get his elbows way up high and if he'd connected with Green would've really messed the kid up. Just because he didn't hit Green doesn't mean it's OK. If someone took a baseball swing with his stick at Marian Hossa's head, we'd all be furious even if the player missed his mark. I didn't see footage of Kovalchuk grabbing Clark's cage but that's completely uncalled for if he did do it.

That said, the Caps reaction was ridiculous. Throwing out Donald Brashear and John Erskine to take care of Vitaly Vishnevski and Marian Hossa? Brian Sutherby sucker punches Brad Larsen twice on the following faceoff? We're the goon team? Glen Hanlon is making chicken gestures towards our bench and Bob Hartley is the one with the bush league reputation? What a joke.

If the Caps really wanted to do things right, they'd send Brashear after Sutton in the next game. My guess is they wanted to put on a show for the hometown fans, though. Lord knows they can't give them hockey so they might as well give them some reason to pay attention to their joke of a team.
I couldn't agree more. And I have absolutely no respect for Brashear. Its one thing to beat the crap out of a known fighter, but to bloody up someone who has only fought 4 times in his career is ridiculous. I remember seeing him dive to the ice during a fight with Boogard when he realized Boogard was going to kill him.

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Old
11-23-2006, 02:50 PM
  #109
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I didn't see footage of Kovalchuk grabbing Clark's cage but that's completely uncalled for if he did do it.
Well, I just watched the replay I TiVoed earlier and I can't see where people are getting Kovalchuk went after Clark from. Kovy went over to the pile and got an arm around his neck and was yanked away by Clark, then he turns around and pushes Clark, the ref comes in and a few more shoves are exchanged, I didn't see him grab Clark's cage at any time and he didn't instigate the scuffle.

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Old
11-23-2006, 03:14 PM
  #110
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I think this is largely a case of what you saw is tilted by your perspective.

1. Sutton pretty clearly attempted to kill the rookie Green. That was a pretty obvious job of head hunting. If Sutton added to his elbow by launching himself off his skates at impact, its all the worse considering the size difference.
Add that Green is a prized rookie at the top of the rookie defenseman class and taking that kind of shot at the end of a game that is pretty well decided is just a bad move. Worse against a division team because it just can't be let to pass by.

2. Capitals fans say that Kovalchuk grabbed Clark's cage, yes. The Hanlon said it after the game and it was in both accounts of the game in the Washington newspapers. So, I think that it happened. Thats cheaper than Sutton's elbow and I am really not sure what you guys expect Washington to do after that crap is done on their captain..eh?

3. Caps fans say that Lawson went after Sutherby's throat on the face off. What you see is sometimes tilted by your point of view. I think that didn't happen. However, if Sutherby does not get suspended, you can guess that it may have.

4. Brashear vs Vishnevski.....Sutton on Green.....Erskine on Hossa...Clark's grill?
You expect that after a 6-6 defenseman headhunts a 6-0 rookie that the fight should be fair? Where is that rule?

5. Wait til next game...why? That game was over. The next game the Capitals will need to win. It makes no sense to stand up for your teammates in the next game when you can do it now when its fresh and not waste the chance for points in the standings.

I'll add one more thing. The Capitals players have a real problem with the Atlanta players. This stems from stuff between them as men and professionals. Last season Atlanta blew out and ran up the score twice early in the season. Apparantly they were laughing at the Capitals in the process and building up some real anomosity in the process. The Capitals took greater than usual pleasure in dumping the Thrashers out of the playoffs last season because of that.

Its the stuff that is said between them on the ice when they play. Its not stuff you hear in the media. But its there and its not pretty and it goes both ways.

The bottom line here is that you can say that Sutton may have been wrong and Kovalchuk may have been wrong too, but that doesn't mean that the Capitals should have done what they did. What Sutton did started it and what Kovalchuk did was...you choose the description. It was not what professionals do to each other. What the Capitals did...they did and will likely get suspended for. Blame the Capitals all you want but if Sutton keeps his elbow to himself and Kovalchuk acts like a respectable professional, that stuff doesn't happen.

The Capitals TV broadcast crew are complimented as one the most fair viewing and least homer crews in the NHL. They just don't sell out for the team. If they say they saw something then it happened or at least that is how they saw it.

After all of this written above what I am most trying to say is that other people see the whole thing a whole lot different that how some of you see it. That means that maybe it didn't happen the way you saw it afterall. Time will tell. I will be watching Don Cherry on Saturday night because if there is video of Kovy jerking Clark around by his face mask protecting a shattered palete bone, Cherry may very well have it on his segment. What do you suppose he would say about it?

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Old
11-23-2006, 03:22 PM
  #111
Amen evil king
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It's a two way street, txpd.

It's too hard to tell if Kovalchuk shakes him about the head in the replays, but I'm sure reputation alone will be all the evidence Cherry needs. I can't tell if Kovalchuk just shoved him, or if he actually grabbed him by the face cage.

You can point to caps fans and Hanlon as your witnesses, but what about the referees? The linesman was right there holding them apart; if it was that bad I'm sure he would have had the ref add it to the penalty list. Facemasking would be a serious enough offence for a penalty, I'd imagine.

Did Kovalchuk even get his gloves off?

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Old
11-23-2006, 03:55 PM
  #112
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Fair point about perspective, but there is a fine line of different views and absolute exaggarations/falsehoods.

Making Clark out to be some injured, poor victim of the situation is just astonishing

He was the one in the first place who was pulling Kovalchuk away who was trying to defend his own teammate. Clark was the one trying to fight Kovalchuk. Clark wrapped his arm around him from the neck and tried to garner his attention. Look at the replays again.

Yeah, Caps fan say Larsen (not Lawson) was grabbing Sutherby neck? Looking at the replay here I see the opposite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1DIzvD3eE&eurl= It looks like Brad Larsen was the one having his jersey grabbed by Sutherby around the neck-area.

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Old
11-23-2006, 04:14 PM
  #113
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I certainly said that I didn't think that Larsen went after Sutherby's throat. I didn't that happened. I was using that as an example of what you think effects what you see. Sutherby was suspended, so apparantly there was no evidence that Larsen did anything.

Clark as a victim? Who said he was a victim? I didn't need to make him a victim to voice astonishment at what would be a low blow of the lower variety. Its cheap whether it hurt Clark or not. You guys know that. Right?

This is all good rivalry stuff. My view is that there was a cheap shot or at very bare minimum an uncalled for/unwise shot taken by Sutton and with that you can trade cheap shots. What we are left with is this bull*^%$ your cheap was worse than our cheap shot stuff. Which is sort of where we are left here. That and the occasional worthless comment like "the capitals are a joke of a team" or some such.
That kind of thing is really unproductive because its not true and all I need to do is remind someone how the Thrashers missed the playoffs last year to ask who the joke was on in the end. I am of the mind that the SE division has more of the biggest stars in the NHL for the next ten years and is where the action is. But i guess we all have opinions.

You guys have 4 wins at the Capitals expense. In fact as of today the difference between the Caps having an unexpectedly good start and being the big surprise of the season so far is those 4 Atlanta games. So...good on ya.

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Old
11-23-2006, 04:15 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I think this is largely a case of what you saw is tilted by your perspective.
Hardly. It's a case of watching the game tape and reviewing the penalties assessed.

1. Sutton: He got 2 + 2 for hi-stick and roughing. No 5 minute intent to injure and no game misconduct. No increased penalties today from the league. End of story, IMO. Hanlon grossly overreacted with his orders on the following face off.

2. Kovalchuk: He was pulling somebody away from the scrum and Clarke grabs him from behind, spins him around and hits at Kovy, I remember thinking what's he doing, how can Kovy hit back against a guy with bars around his jaws? They dance for a bit and the refs break it up. Kovalchuk is not on the penalty list, you should notice.

3. Larsen: You made your own point, Larsen did not get suspended, only the fighting major for defending himself, so it's cheap-shot bashing by Sutherby.

4. Brashear-Green-Erskine: See point number 1, Sutton got only garden variety penalties during the game and nothing more afterward. No head-hunting type penalties. Again you made your own point, the Caps were way out of line with their cheap-shot instigations on the first face off.

5. Wait till next game: Agree. Since things went as they did there is no chance in hell of the Caps winning this year unless by benefiting from a major Thrashers injury situation.

6. Run up score, etc. whining: My advice: Get over it and the Caps become a better team.

Until yesterday I usually pulled for the Caps against most other teams. No more.

If you want to watch it, check back here for the tape:
http://video.google.com/nhl.html

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Old
11-23-2006, 05:09 PM
  #115
aristotle siltanen
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Originally Posted by kracker1 View Post
Hardly. It's a case of watching the game tape and reviewing the penalties assessed.

1. Sutton: He got 2 + 2 for hi-stick and roughing. No 5 minute intent to injure and no game misconduct. No increased penalties today from the league. End of story, IMO. Hanlon grossly overreacted with his orders on the following face off.

2. Kovalchuk: He was pulling somebody away from the scrum and Clarke grabs him from behind, spins him around and hits at Kovy, I remember thinking what's he doing, how can Kovy hit back against a guy with bars around his jaws? They dance for a bit and the refs break it up. Kovalchuk is not on the penalty list, you should notice.

3. Larsen: You made your own point, Larsen did not get suspended, only the fighting major for defending himself, so it's cheap-shot bashing by Sutherby.

4. Brashear-Green-Erskine: See point number 1, Sutton got only garden variety penalties during the game and nothing more afterward. No head-hunting type penalties. Again you made your own point, the Caps were way out of line with their cheap-shot instigations on the first face off.

5. Wait till next game: Agree. Since things went as they did there is no chance in hell of the Caps winning this year unless by benefiting from a major Thrashers injury situation.

6. Run up score, etc. whining: My advice: Get over it and the Caps become a better team.

Until yesterday I usually pulled for the Caps against most other teams. No more.

If you want to watch it, check back here for the tape:
http://video.google.com/nhl.html
Very Well Done!

"Until yesterday I usually pulled for the Caps against most other teams. No more."

Quoted twice for emphasis.

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Old
11-23-2006, 06:49 PM
  #116
Amen evil king
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
After all of this written above what I am most trying to say is that other people see the whole thing a whole lot different that how some of you see it. That means that maybe it didn't happen the way you saw it afterall. Time will tell. I will be watching Don Cherry on Saturday night because if there is video of Kovy jerking Clark around by his face mask protecting a shattered palete bone, Cherry may very well have it on his segment. What do you suppose he would say about it?
I really don't get this - what on earth would make you think it would be appropriate non-trolling behaviour to come over here and post the above 'lecture', and then go onto the main board and make comment after comment of complete nonsense like this below?

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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I may be wrong, but didn't Clymer step up immediately after the hit and challenge Sutton, who backed away from the challenge? Ben Clymer is a good bit smaller than Sutton and Sutton didn't want any part of it. What makes you think that Sutton would accept an invitation from Brashear??

I think that is part of the equation that is being missed here. Sutton, who could crush Green with a clean hit, goes for the elbow on the rookie and leaves his skates when the game is already decided. Then won't step up against a guy like Ben Clymer. Whats the next step?
I mean does it get any more ridiculous than that?

Feel free to not come back, my friend.

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Old
11-23-2006, 07:40 PM
  #117
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I think it's hilarious that everyone's actually blaming us for last night, when it was blatantly obvious that this was all at the fault of the Caps.

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11-23-2006, 08:00 PM
  #118
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I think it's hilarious that everyone's actually blaming us for last night, when it was blatantly obvious that this was all at the fault of the Caps.
Must be nice to put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala" while the rest of us have a grownup discussion.

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Old
11-23-2006, 08:07 PM
  #119
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wow, I hate being stuck in class and missing games. What a game to miss.

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11-23-2006, 08:23 PM
  #120
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Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet, but what was Hartley doing having those guys on the ice. Was it that hard to look over and see guys like Brashear, Bradley and Erskine on the ice on a 3 on 3 and see that something was going to happen?

I know the Caps had last change, but the Thrashers should have known that something could have happened there and had guys on the ice that could protect themselves. I mean I think the thrashers are lucky Brashear went after Vish, what happens if he got his hands on Hossa? I mean who else was Brash going to fight?

Personally I don't think there was much wrong with what happened last night. When the toughest guy on your team takes a run at someone you have to know that the Caps toughest guy is going to fight someone. Thats hockey. And to critizise Sutherby for going after Larsen than you have to do the same since Mellanby went after Heward.

I def don't agree with what Hanlon did on the bench, although as a Caps fan it was pretty funny. But in my opinion Sutton is the main guy at fault here. There was no reason to take a run at Green. And it doesn't matter that he missed him, its the intent that caused that reaction.

I can't wait to see the Brash vs. Sutton fight the next time these two play, because we all know that is going to happen.


Last edited by Jasper17: 11-23-2006 at 08:29 PM.
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Old
11-23-2006, 08:26 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
I think it's hilarious that everyone's actually blaming us for last night, when it was blatantly obvious that this was all at the fault of the Caps.

Brashear suspended 3 games
Sutherby suspended for 1 game
Hanlon fined $30,000

Mellanby suspended 1 game
Hartley fined $10,000

It seems the NHL believes Washington was more "at fault"

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Old
11-23-2006, 08:27 PM
  #122
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I know the Caps had last change, but the Preds should have known that something could have happened there and had guys on the ice that could protect themselves. I mean I think the Preds are lucky Brashear went after Vish, what happens if he got his hands on Hossa?



Am I missing something? Did we get moved to Nashville?

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Old
11-23-2006, 08:29 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Oster View Post


Am I missing something? Did we get moved to Nashville?
my fault, to much turkey

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Old
11-23-2006, 08:31 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Ichiro View Post
Brashear suspended 3 games
Sutherby suspended for 1 game
Hanlon fined $30,000

Mellanby suspended 1 game
Hartley fined $10,000

It seems the NHL believes Washington was more "at fault"
Well i have no problem with the penalties the NHL gave out. However the NHL doesn't punish for intent (the players do) and thats why Sutton didn't get a fine or anything.

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Old
11-24-2006, 10:35 AM
  #125
aristotle siltanen
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet, but what was Hartley doing having those guys on the ice. Was it that hard to look over and see guys like Brashear, Bradley and Erskine on the ice on a 3 on 3 and see that something was going to happen?

I know the Caps had last change, but the Thrashers should have known that something could have happened there and had guys on the ice that could protect themselves. I mean I think the thrashers are lucky Brashear went after Vish, what happens if he got his hands on Hossa? I mean who else was Brash going to fight?

Personally I don't think there was much wrong with what happened last night. When the toughest guy on your team takes a run at someone you have to know that the Caps toughest guy is going to fight someone. Thats hockey. And to critizise Sutherby for going after Larsen than you have to do the same since Mellanby went after Heward.

I def don't agree with what Hanlon did on the bench, although as a Caps fan it was pretty funny. But in my opinion Sutton is the main guy at fault here. There was no reason to take a run at Green. And it doesn't matter that he missed him, its the intent that caused that reaction.

I can't wait to see the Brash vs. Sutton fight the next time these two play, because we all know that is going to happen.
Washington was at home.

Once the Thrashers players were iced, then the Caps put out their players.

There is no way Hartley could have pulled his players off the ice, except by calling a time out.

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