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Old
11-23-2006, 11:43 AM
  #26
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Not to mention super-leadership candidate Jeremy Roenick and Stanley-Cup winning veteran Brett Hull.

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11-23-2006, 11:45 AM
  #27
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I thought goaltending was our big hole in the offseason, and Muckler attempted to fill it with Gerber. So far, results haven't been great in this department.

Now that Emery is doing great, we've all changed our minds and something else was the big hole in the off-season.
I'm sorry to inform you, but a team that plays as badly as they did in the playoffs has more than one big hole that needs to be rectified in the off-season...

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11-23-2006, 11:47 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Shnak View Post
I'm sorry to inform you, but a team that plays as badly as they did in the playoffs has more than one big hole that needs to be rectified in the off-season...
And I'm sorry to inform you, but playing at General Manager and trading the entire team away after a sub-par playoff series is terrible asset management.

Let's see the blueprint.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Let's see EXACTLY what you have done, gifted with your amazing powers of hindsight given that 2 months of the season has gone so far, in the offseason.

Time to see your constructive solutions as opposed to just *****ing all the time.

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11-23-2006, 11:47 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I thought that's what Phoenix was doing when they added former Captain Owen Nolan, team leader and usually an "A" - JR, veteran warrior Mike Ricci and his Cup/playoff experience, CuJo and his playoff experience, the grit and experience of Dave Scatchard, the international experience of Jovo.

What went wrong here?
Wouldn't we be making the same awful mistakes they did?
So you're saying that Phoenix is a team as fast and talented as we are here? Seriously? Even though those guys have experience and some leadership qualities, they can't take a bunch of crappy players and make that team a winner... the difference is that we have some great pieces here... we just need the glue to put it all together.

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11-23-2006, 11:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Shnak View Post
the difference is that we have some great pieces here... we just need the glue to put it all together.
Which great pieces are you going to give away to make room for the glue?

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11-23-2006, 11:49 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I thought that's what Phoenix was doing when they added former Captain Owen Nolan, team leader and usually an "A" - JR, veteran warrior Mike Ricci and his Cup/playoff experience, CuJo and his playoff experience, the grit and experience of Dave Scatchard, the international experience of Jovo.

What went wrong here?
Wouldn't we be making the same awful mistakes they did?
I don't think so. We have a better core than Pheonix. We just have to make a few adjustments.

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11-23-2006, 11:50 AM
  #32
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I think it wouldn't hurt the Sens to get one (or two) of Nieuwendyk, Gelinas or Roberts.

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11-23-2006, 11:51 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Käptäin Kärppä View Post
I think it wouldn't hurt the Sens to get one (or two) of Nieuwendyk, Gelinas or Roberts.
And I can't wait for one of them to go down with injury (as both Nieuwendyk and Roberts seem to do every playoff now) and then everyone jump on Muckler for acquiring injury-prone has-beens like the Leafs typically do.

I wouldn't mind all three players, but Muckler is basically in a lose-lose situation regardless of who he picks up.

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11-23-2006, 11:53 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
And I'm sorry to inform you, but playing at General Manager and trading the entire team away after a sub-par playoff series is terrible asset management.

Let's see the blueprint.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Let's see EXACTLY what you have done, gifted with your amazing powers of hindsight given that 2 months of the season has gone so far, in the offseason.

Time to see your constructive solutions as opposed to just *****ing all the time.
Who's talking about trading away the whole team? Shanahan could have been had. McKee could have been had. Aaron Ward could have been had.

Instead of working on attracting guys like that here, we signed unproven Gerber, unproven Corvo, traded Havlat for unproven Preissing, and brought in McAmmond. I like McAmmond as much as the next guy... but do you really think that him alone will make us go from a team that can't score goals in the playoffs, to a team that can score flurries of goals at will?

Ahhh whatever... this is just useless. It's just not worth debating about this anymore... this team has been needing leadership as far back as I can remember, and it's still a huge need of this team.

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11-23-2006, 11:54 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
And I can't wait for one of them to go down with injury (as both Nieuwendyk and Roberts seem to do every playoff now) and then everyone jump on Muckler for acquiring injury-prone has-beens like the Leafs typically do.

I wouldn't mind all three players, but Muckler is basically in a lose-lose situation regardless of who he picks up.
Yeah you're right... we're better off acquiring younger guys like Arnason instead...

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11-23-2006, 11:54 AM
  #36
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Who's talking about trading away the whole team? Shanahan could have been had. McKee could have been had. Aaron Ward could have been had.
So which is it? McKee, Shanahan or Ward? Or all three?

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Originally Posted by Shnak View Post
Instead of working on attracting guys like that here, we signed unproven Gerber, unproven Corvo, traded Havlat for unproven Preissing, and brought in McAmmond. I like McAmmond as much as the next guy... but do you really think that him alone will make us go from a team that can't score goals in the playoffs, to a team that can score flurries of goals at will?
So you're keeping Havlat as well as part of your plan? How much?

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Ahhh whatever... this is just useless. It's just not worth debating about this anymore... this team has been needing leadership as far back as I can remember, and it's still a huge need of this team.
On the contrary. I'm interested in your solution for our leadership woes.

We just need more details.

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11-23-2006, 11:54 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Which great pieces are you going to give away to make room for the glue?
Let me understand this. Do you really beleive that this team has the charcater required to go deep into the playoffs? After all these years of disappointment I really dont't think this team has changed(mentally that is).

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11-23-2006, 11:56 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Shnak View Post
Who's talking about trading away the whole team? Shanahan could have been had. McKee could have been had. Aaron Ward could have been had.

Instead of working on attracting guys like that here, we signed unproven Gerber, unproven Corvo, traded Havlat for unproven Preissing, and brought in McAmmond. I like McAmmond as much as the next guy... but do you really think that him alone will make us go from a team that can't score goals in the playoffs, to a team that can score flurries of goals at will?

Ahhh whatever... this is just useless. It's just not worth debating about this anymore... this team has been needing leadership as far back as I can remember, and it's still a huge need of this team.

You are right on.

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11-23-2006, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
And I can't wait for one of them to go down with injury (as both Nieuwendyk and Roberts seem to do every playoff now) and then everyone jump on Muckler for acquiring injury-prone has-beens like the Leafs typically do.

I wouldn't mind all three players, but Muckler is basically in a lose-lose situation regardless of who he picks up.
Don't you think that the presence of these guys in the locker room is an inspiration for the rest of the squad and motivates them to go out and win?

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11-23-2006, 12:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by billpo View Post
Let me understand this. Do you really beleive that this team has the charcater required to go deep into the playoffs? After all these years of disappointment I really dont't think this team has changed(mentally that is).
I'm saying that many teams can struggle in the post-season for awhile before finally making it.

I'm saying that we have a young team who develop character as they go along. I'm saying that players like Meszaros and Volchenkov should be more valuable in the post-season this year compared with last. How about Eaves in his first playoff? Heatley in his?

Brind'amour didn't go to leadership school or anything. He developed it on his own. If I had told you, 10 years ago, that Brind'Amour would be one of the great respected leaders of the NHL, you would have laughed your head off. The team he played for continuously choked when it counted. (Philly?)

I'm not adverse to picking up a part or two by the trade deadline, but I refuse to count out the team completely as it stands.

I don't believe that this is the same team as past years. I don't think leadership is solely affected by the additions or deletions of players, but that players already on the team can develop character and improve leadership as a whole on their own.

I think players like Neil, Fisher, Volchenkov are showing much more in that department than in past years.

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Old
11-23-2006, 12:08 PM
  #41
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Hey Shnak,
You had me believing that you were a sen's fan for a minute, oh when the true colors are shown they are blue!!!...
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Where do I sign?

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Old
11-23-2006, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
So which is it? McKee, Shanahan or Ward? Or all three?
Why not? With Chara, Redden and Pothier all leaving, we would have needed to fill 3 spots on defense... McKee at $4M, Ward at $2M and Corvo at $2.6M. That's $8.6M, instead of our current $9.7M given to Redden, Corvo and Preissing. With that move, we improve our blocking shots ability, our leave it all on the ice attitude, and our leadership. Corvo and Meszaros can handle the powerplay duties. McKee, Volchenkov, Phillips and Ward can all handle penalty kill duties. McKee and Ward both bring a ton of leadership, grit, and have a proven track record of leaving it all on the ice in big games (playoffs).

Shanahan at $4M? Sign me up! $5M? Let's go! 2 years even if you want. Maybe even 3 years. He still has a ton of hockey left in him.

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So you're keeping Havlat as well as part of your plan? How much?
IMO, we should have attempted to sign Havlat to the 1-year contract he said he wanted. $4M for one year. 1 year of Havlat is better than 1 year of Preissing.

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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
On the contrary. I'm interested in your solution for our leadership woes.

We just need more details.
Instead of going with the expensive and unproven Gerber, we go with a guy like Legace at $1.5M, or even Hasek at 700k.

Heatley (4.5) - Spezza (4.5) - Havlat (4)
Shanahan (4) - Vermette (1) - Alfredsson (4.7)
Eaves (1) - Fisher (1.5) - Neil (1)
Schubert (.5) - Kelly (.7) - McGrattan/Hamel (1)

McKee (4) - Meszaros (1)
Phillips (2.2) - Ward (2)
Volchenkov (1.3) - Corvo (2.6)

Emery (.9) /Legace (1.5) playing 1A and 1B.

Total: $43.9M

Granted, it'd be tough to last very long with our payroll being that close to the cap... but we could still start the season with that roster, and then choose to trade Havlat for a cheaper player whenever we got the right offer... Havlat signed for a year at $4M is worth a lot more than Havlat unsigned at all. And if we really want to save a little bit more money, you forget Corvo, and give a real shot at Schubert as your #6 defenseman. He has a great shot, and could do well on the point on powerplays.

And yeah, I had to sacrifice Schaefer... but that money is better spent on Shanahan than him.

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11-23-2006, 12:14 PM
  #43
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Shnak's plan is a great one if Ottawa was the only team in the NHL.

As it is, we aren't.

And that is the fundamental flaw in all of your planning.

Other teams are also trying to fill holes. Listing off the most prized free agents in the off-season and slotting them in to Ottawa's line-up is a particularly utopian approach to fixing our roster.

Also, Legace actually manages to be worse than Gerber, including this year.


Last edited by NyQuil: 11-23-2006 at 12:19 PM.
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Old
11-23-2006, 12:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Shnak's plan is a great one if Ottawa was the only team in the NHL.

As it is, we aren't.

And that is the fundamental flaw in all of your planning.

Other teams are also trying to fill holes. Listing off the most prized free agents in the off-season and slotting them in to Ottawa's line-up is a particularly utopian approach to fixing our roster.
I'm certainly not saying that all of what I have listed could have been done... but *some* of that would have been nice to see.

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11-23-2006, 12:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Shnak View Post
I'm certainly not saying that all of what I have listed could have been done... but *some* of that would have been nice to see.
Well, that's fair I guess.

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11-23-2006, 12:22 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I'm saying that many teams can struggle in the post-season for awhile before finally making it.

I'm saying that we have a young team who develop character as they go along. I'm saying that players like Meszaros and Volchenkov should be more valuable in the post-season this year compared with last. How about Eaves in his first playoff? Heatley in his?

Brind'amour didn't go to leadership school or anything. He developed it on his own. If I had told you, 10 years ago, that Brind'Amour would be one of the great respected leaders of the NHL, you would have laughed your head off. The team he played for continuously choked when it counted. (Philly?)

I'm not adverse to picking up a part or two by the trade deadline, but I refuse to count out the team completely as it stands.

I don't believe that this is the same team as past years. I don't think leadership is solely affected by the additions or deletions of players, but that players already on the team can develop character and improve leadership as a whole on their own.

I think players like Neil, Fisher, Volchenkov are showing much more in that department than in past years.
Preach on, Reverend.

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Old
11-23-2006, 12:34 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Shnak's plan is a great one if Ottawa was the only team in the NHL.

As it is, we aren't.

And that is the fundamental flaw in all of your planning.

Other teams are also trying to fill holes. Listing off the most prized free agents in the off-season and slotting them in to Ottawa's line-up is a particularly utopian approach to fixing our roster.

Also, Legace actually manages to be worse than Gerber, including this year.

I agree NyQuil. But why are some of those other teams getting some of those players, and we are not.

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11-23-2006, 12:35 PM
  #48
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I'm certainly not saying that all of what I have listed could have been done... but *some* of that would have been nice to see.
The problem is and NyQuil addressed it with his comment about your "20/20 hindsight" is that you name hottest players in the most recent history as the solution to our problems.... constantly. Those players worked in a certain situation at a specific place and time.

A few years ago, Aaron Ward was named Keith Carney.
A few years ago, Shanahan could've been Owen Nolan (leading a Sharks team on the rise to the 3rd round).
A few years ago, Jay McKee might've been Mike Rathje.

These players worked in certain place and time. That's it.

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11-23-2006, 12:40 PM
  #49
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So you're saying that Phoenix is a team as fast and talented as we are here? Seriously? Even though those guys have experience and some leadership qualities, they can't take a bunch of crappy players and make that team a winner... the difference is that we have some great pieces here... we just need the glue to put it all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billpo
I don't think so. We have a better core than Pheonix. We just have to make a few adjustments.
Really, cause I don't get that impression from you guys at all. It always seems to be the "grass is always greener"... not matter how badly the other grass in doing in the standings.

Did you guys suggest Alfie for Doan? Gerber for CuJo? Meszaros for Ballard?
If you could make a bunch of fairly reasonable deals with Phoenix, where would it stop?

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11-23-2006, 12:43 PM
  #50
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Really, cause I don't get that impression from you guys at all. It always seems to be the "grass is always greener"... not matter how badly the other grass in doing in the standings.

Did you guys suggest Alfie for Doan? Gerber for CuJo? Meszaros for Ballard?
If you could make a bunch of fairly reasonable deals with Phoenix, where would it stop?
I never suggested Alfie for Doan. Yes to Doan, but not for Alfie. HUGE yes for Cujo for Gerber though. And Meszaros for Ballard, although not really sure if there would be a point to such a trade, I wouldn't be against it.

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