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The worst player in the 500 goal club?

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Old
11-24-2006, 01:15 PM
  #26
Stephen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weztex View Post
I don't know how somebody can say Selanne is the worst of the lot when a good case can be made for him in the top 100 players ever. Players like Andreychuk and Verbeek are nowhere near that recognition. Maybe its overexposure. Anyway, I pick those two as the worst of the lot.
It's absolutely ridiculous that someone who as been as dominant as Selanne has been over his career should be compared to Verbeek and Andreychuk. Whereas Selanne was among the best in the league, the other two were never even considered the best players on their respective teams.

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Old
11-24-2006, 01:32 PM
  #27
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Selanne

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Old
11-24-2006, 01:46 PM
  #28
Fighter
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Andreychuk or Robitaille, but probably Lucky Luc was better.

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11-24-2006, 01:51 PM
  #29
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I'd probably go with Andreychuk.

1 50 goal season.
2 40 goal seasons.
3 times lead his team in scoring.

Nothing particularly impressive about that.

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Old
11-24-2006, 02:07 PM
  #30
12# Peter Bondra
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Dave A from that list.

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Old
11-24-2006, 02:58 PM
  #31
SchwenningerWildWing
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Nobody with 500 goals is bad

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11-24-2006, 03:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
This is like asking "Who is the unluckiest lottery winner?"

You don't get 500 goals without bringing it for a long time....so I couldn't pick anyone.
Same here. There are personal style biases that I could make judgements on, but considering most of these guys combine longevity with a high degree of skill (or chew-threw-a-stick determination)... there really isn't a "bad" one on in the group. Players of this ilk are all valuable.

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11-24-2006, 03:19 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Weztex View Post
I don't know how somebody can say Selanne is the worst of the lot when a good case can be made for him in the top 100 players ever.
In terms of talent yes. In terms of what he brings to a team, what a coach needs, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not top 100, not even close.

Just like some say Jagr is Top-5 all time in terms of talent. Sure, but was he that good overall, in terms of the value he brought to a team and the performances he's had. Not top 5. Still possibly top-20 but not top-5.

Judgements of best/worst depends if you're looking at offensive puck-handling talent or overall value and performance on a team. I tend to look at it from a coach's perspective and with the real season of the playoffs in mind. Do I take McDonald or Selanne? McDonald. Ciccarelli or Selanne? Ciccarelli. Verbeek or Selanne? Verbeek. The issue isn't so clear with Robitaille, Andreychuk, Turgeon.

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Old
11-24-2006, 03:30 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
This is like asking "Who is the unluckiest lottery winner?"

You don't get 500 goals without bringing it for a long time....so I couldn't pick anyone.
Hurley is the unluckiest lottery winner.

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11-24-2006, 04:18 PM
  #35
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I would say Gretzky


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Old
11-24-2006, 04:55 PM
  #36
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Another vote for Andreychuk. King of the garbage goal and he couldn't skate too well either.

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Old
11-24-2006, 05:07 PM
  #37
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Andreychuk without question in my mind.

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Old
11-24-2006, 05:31 PM
  #38
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Verbeek

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Old
11-24-2006, 06:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SchwenningerWildWing View Post
Nobody with 500 goals is bad
great point

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Old
11-24-2006, 06:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SchwenningerWildWing View Post
Nobody with 500 goals is bad
That doesn't mean they're all equally good.

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Old
11-24-2006, 07:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SchwenningerWildWing View Post
Nobody with 500 goals is bad

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Old
11-24-2006, 11:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
I'll agree with you about 92/93 - with one caveat. He actually played pretty well in Game 5 as well. He had a good number of chances in that game and while the OT winner was a "right place, right time" kind of goal, he was their best player for the Jets in that game, too. In any event, the Jets were largely outclassed in that series by the Canucks, I wish I could argue otherwise.

But, does nobody remember the playoffs just last year? 14 points in 16 games? He played great in both Game 7s, getting the game winner in both. He was pretty much the best forward for Finland (if not the best forward, period) in the Olympics, too.

While I'm ranting, I also disagree with the comments (not yours GBC) about his lack of a complete game. He's changed his game a lot the last 2 seasons. He's much more of a worker along the boards now, and has been a more valuable setup man than he has a scorer. He still uses his speed to generate chances (where the new rules have helped A LOT), but he's a far more complete player than ever before.

I think that the changes in his game are making him a much better all-around player than ever before, including - perhaps I should say especially - in the playoffs.

I also need to point out the irony of the fact that we're debating the man's playoff performance to argue his place on a list of the greatest regular season goal scorers.
Selannes all around game now is better than it was 5 years ago. He's not going to plow guys but he's not afraid to muck in the corners, and he'll likely have another 50 assist season which shows he is much more than just a goal scorer.

Last year in the playoffs he played well, not great but part of that was Andy McDonalds ineffectiveness and alot of Selannes offensive scoring comes from having another guy who can skate and handle the puck like he can.


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Old
11-24-2006, 11:55 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
I'll agree with you about 92/93 - with one caveat. He actually played pretty well in Game 5 as well. He had a good number of chances in that game and while the OT winner was a "right place, right time" kind of goal, he was their best player for the Jets in that game, too. In any event, the Jets were largely outclassed in that series by the Canucks, I wish I could argue otherwise.

But, does nobody remember the playoffs just last year? 14 points in 16 games? He played great in both Game 7s, getting the game winner in both. He was pretty much the best forward for Finland (if not the best forward, period) in the Olympics, too.

He played in one game 7 last year - the one versus Calgary. Anaheim swept the series versus Colorado, and lost in five to Edmonton. His performance against Calgary was the best post-season series of his career. He didn't back down against Calgary's defence, and he was actually a factor in that series, something you haven't been able to say in most other playoffs.

He wasn't much of a factor after Game 1 against Colorado; Anaheim wins that series with or without Teemu. But that series against Edmonton? When they needed that big goal, or that big play to create a goal, in Games 1 and 2, when Anaheim scored once in each, Teemu was nowhere to be found.
Yeah but Chris Pronger and Dwayne Roloson had alot to do with that, the Ducks as a team lost their mojo with that long lay off in that Colorado series, and really nobody played well til about the 3rd game when they were down 4-0 and at that point the series was basically over.

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Old
11-25-2006, 01:02 AM
  #44
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The two I would least like to have on my team are Gartner and Turgeon. Why? - Neither were winners. How Gartner is in the Hall is beyond me... in any given year, he was not one of the best 10 players in the NHL, most years he was not even close. He had longevity, speed, and a good shot, I will give him that. But is that what we want the Hall to be about... it should be about those who were, in their era, THE BEST. Completely beyond me.

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Old
11-25-2006, 01:55 AM
  #45
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Hilarious thread.

The problem with saying Robitaille is the worst player in the 500-goal club is that he actually scored almost 170 goals more than that.

So if you wanna call him the worst player that ever came 30 or so goals shy of scoring 700-goals in the NHL, I'm sure even he'd be happy to wear that moniker.

He'll be laughing all the way to Toronto in 4 more years...

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Old
11-25-2006, 03:22 AM
  #46
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LOL at the folks that seem to think Robitaille is the worst of that group. A history lesson for yew all

Calder trophy winner
All time leading goal scorer for a left wing
Second all time leading assists for a left wing
668 goals
726 assists
Total of 1394 points in 1431 games. Almost a ppg player for 19 seasons

12 30 goal seasons
8 40 goal seasons
3 50 goal seasons
1 60 goal season
4 100+pt seasons (98 points in 88-89 and 125 in 92-93)

keep in mind he was drafted 171 overall! and 5 rounds AFTER tom glavine LOL. Now he definantly isnt the best on that list, but he certainly doesnt deserve to be considered the worst

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Old
11-30-2006, 07:15 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
With Selanne and Sundin getting to 500 this year(And Mike Modano soon to join), I started wondering about who the worst player to score 500 goals is. Arguing for the best in the club would contain a short list of players, and I think the worst would put more players in the debate.

The list:
Wayne Gretzky
Gordie Howe
Brett Hull
Marcel Dionne
Phil Esposito
Mike Gartner
Mark Messier
Steve Yzerman
Mario Lemieux
Luc Robitaille
Dave Andreychuk
Bobby Hull
Dino Ciccarelli
Brendan Shanahan
Jari Kurri
Jaromir Jagr
Joe Sakic
Mike Bossy
Joe Nieuwendyk
Guy Lafleur
Johnny Bucyk
Ron Francis
Michel Goulet
Maurice "Rocket" Richard
Stan Mikita
Frank Mahovlich
Bryan Trottier
Pat Verbeek
Dale Hawerchuk
Gilbert Perreault
Pierre Turgeon
Jean Beliveau
Joe Mullen
Mats Sundin
Lanny McDonald
Teemu Selanne

My choice: Pierre Turgeon for most of his career he's been a soft 1 dimensional player and I am surprised he has that many goals I never really thought of him as an elite player.
Esposito is my vote. Next can we vote on the worlds tallest midget?

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Old
11-30-2006, 07:52 PM
  #48
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ciccerelli or andreychuk

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Old
12-06-2006, 06:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by RedWingFan View Post
Esposito is my vote.
I hope that's a joke.

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Old
12-09-2006, 09:53 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmjayb View Post
The two I would least like to have on my team are Gartner and Turgeon. Why? - Neither were winners. How Gartner is in the Hall is beyond me... in any given year, he was not one of the best 10 players in the NHL, most years he was not even close. He had longevity, speed, and a good shot, I will give him that. But is that what we want the Hall to be about... it should be about those who were, in their era, THE BEST. Completely beyond me.
All you need to know about Gartner is that he got traded time and time again at the trade deadline. But always away from a team that was trying to win the Cup to teams that were already out of it. He was absolutely the opposite of clutch in the play-offs.

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