HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

OT - Life Time Players

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-27-2006, 08:29 AM
  #1
Savannah Skunk
Registered User
 
Savannah Skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Off the banana farm
Country: Uganda
Posts: 1,439
vCash: 500
OT - Life Time Players

Well there ever be another Steve Yzerman? I can only think of one player currently playing who will likely play for only one team his entire career, Martin Brodeur. However, it is likely that Dipietro will stay on Long Island for his career too - Wang saw to that.

I think the days of a player playing for one team their entire career are over. I wonder in the present NHL system, especially with the salary cap, if there are any players who might forgo a healthier bank account for the love of the fans by sticking it out loyally with their team for their entire career. Here's to hoping because i think it is a sad change in Hockey.

Of the players that might:

Tomas Vokoun - Nashville
Jerome Iginla - Calgary
Vincent Lacavalier - Tampa Bay
Mike Modano - Dallas
Daniel Alfredsson - Ottawa
saku Koivu - Montreal

who else?

Savannah Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 08:33 AM
  #2
Savannah Skunk
Registered User
 
Savannah Skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Off the banana farm
Country: Uganda
Posts: 1,439
vCash: 500
Oops, i forgot one other - Olaf Kolzig. Has he ever played for another team besides the Caps? Props to him for sticking it out when the Capitals really sucked. Their future now looks bright with young stars like Semin and Ovechkin.

Savannah Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 08:48 AM
  #3
CheeseSandwich*
 
CheeseSandwich*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gloucester
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
Naslund - Vancouver
Smyth - Edmonton
Sundin - Toronto (not sure if he counts)

CheeseSandwich* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 08:53 AM
  #4
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
Tomas Vokoun - Nashville
Jerome Iginla - Calgary
Vincent Lacavalier - Tampa Bay
1996-97 Montreal NHL 1 0 0 0 20 0 14 4 12.00 .714

I think any list with Lecavalier and Iginla should have Richards, Gagne, Kaberle, Redden, Phillips, Smyth and Marleau. Ahhhh, Joe Sakic?

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 09:17 AM
  #5
jamiebez
Registered User
 
jamiebez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,523
vCash: 500
Not to be a party pooper, but Naslund, Sundin, Iginla and Vokoun have all either played elsewhere, or were drafted by another team. Should that count?

jamiebez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 09:53 AM
  #6
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
There are plenty of guys that are currently playing that could very well play on the same team their entire careers. Personally, I believe that the current CBA actually helps a team keep their franchise player. Shorter rebuilding phases means that a team has a lot to gain by keeping a around a star player during a leaner time, as, they'll be competitive again soon. Likewise, the player has more motivation to stay because of this.

The following are players that have are around 30 or over, who have played with the same team their whole careers, and, have a good shot at remaining with them the entire time:

Saku Koivu
Daniel Alfredsson
Martin Brodeur
Tomas Kaberle
Patrik Elias
Sergei Brylin
John Madden
Olaf Kolzig
Niklas Lidstrom
Tomas Holmstrom
Joe Sakic
Mike Modano
Jere Lehtinen
Shane Doan
Evegeni Nabakhov
Mattias Ohlund

NOw, not all of them wil remain with their teams, and some are more likely than others. A lot depends on what happens in the near future. For example, Doan is probably being shopped around right now, but, I'm also pretty certain they are looking to resign him. If he stays on past this season, he's likely a for-life player, IMO. This list also doesn't account for younger players, whose teams have made big committments to them, like a Brendan Morrow or Rick DiPietro, and see them as being core to their team.

To me, it's a pretty good list, especially since there are quite a few expansion franchises, who've had less opportunity to find their franchise players.

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 09:57 AM
  #7
Reggie Dunlop
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
Not to be a party pooper, but Naslund, Sundin, Iginla and Vokoun have all either played elsewhere, or were drafted by another team. Should that count?
Been on here for almost two years reading and never posting.. so long time reader, first time poster... In cases where players played for other teams, it shouldnt count for sure, like Naslund (Pittsburg), Sundin (Quebec/Colorado). Being drafted by a team but never playing a game for that team, not sure

An obvious choice that's missing is Martin Brodeur. And after just finishing his book, I don't see him ever going anywhere (based on his preference).

Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 07:34 PM
  #8
moz
Gute Post
 
moz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: England
Posts: 7,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
I think the days of a player playing for one team their entire career are over.
Did those days really exist? I mean what players played for the same team their entire careers? Yzerman, Lemieux, Richard, Beliveau? I know lots of role players stuck around with the same team over their entire career, but I think the "franchise" or "key" players that play for one team is probably roughly comparable to the past.

I mean just look at the Canadian teams, 5/6 have a captain who (excluding drafting) has been with one team for the vast majority of their career and is almost certain to finish out their career with the team: Naslund, Iginla, Sundin, Koivu, Alfredsson. Smyth in Edmonton is not a captain and is a few years younger than these other guys but seems to show the same loyalty. And those are just 6 teams.

moz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 08:49 PM
  #9
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go_ottsens_go View Post
Did those days really exist? I mean what players played for the same team their entire careers? Yzerman, Lemieux, Richard, Beliveau? I know lots of role players stuck around with the same team over their entire career, but I think the "franchise" or "key" players that play for one team is probably roughly comparable to the past.

I mean just look at the Canadian teams, 5/6 have a captain who (excluding drafting) has been with one team for the vast majority of their career and is almost certain to finish out their career with the team: Naslund, Iginla, Sundin, Koivu, Alfredsson. Smyth in Edmonton is not a captain and is a few years younger than these other guys but seems to show the same loyalty. And those are just 6 teams.
Think again. Apparently he wants a boat load of cash to stick around. No home town discount for him, he sounds pretty much prepared to ditch ASAP.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=313962

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2006, 09:12 PM
  #10
moz
Gute Post
 
moz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: England
Posts: 7,176
vCash: 500
Oh damn. My bad, that sucks for Oilers fans. I hate how players get like that but then again they've only got 1 contract (maybe 2) to make the huge bucks so they do their best to take advantage of it.

moz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 08:38 AM
  #11
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobofish View Post
Think again. Apparently he wants a boat load of cash to stick around. No home town discount for him, he sounds pretty much prepared to ditch ASAP.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=313962
With all of "core" players that Edmonton has dealt in the past, it's really hard for any player to really feel safe. It's a team that has traded every star imaginable, that it's pretty naive to think that you're untouchable. Once that mentality arises, it's pretty hard to take too much of a discount, knowing that you may end up on another team anyways.

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 09:20 AM
  #12
Savannah Skunk
Registered User
 
Savannah Skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Off the banana farm
Country: Uganda
Posts: 1,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
With all of "core" players that Edmonton has dealt in the past, it's really hard for any player to really feel safe. It's a team that has traded every star imaginable, that it's pretty naive to think that you're untouchable. Once that mentality arises, it's pretty hard to take too much of a discount, knowing that you may end up on another team anyways.
Who was the last Oiler to begin and end their career with the franchise? Craig Mactavish (Spelling), Kevin Lowe?

Savannah Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 09:40 AM
  #13
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
Who was the last Oiler to begin and end their career with the franchise? Craig Mactavish (Spelling), Kevin Lowe?
Well, Kevin Lowe was a pretty big one, and, that wasn't too long ago. Still, it is kind of ironic that he has been one of the more active GMs at shipping his players out before they have a chance to leave, when, he was the lone guy to survive the revolving door from the Oilers era.

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:21 PM
  #14
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 500
Both Lowe and Mactavish were part of the New York "Oilers" Stanley Cup winning team in 1993-94.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:29 PM
  #15
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Both Lowe and Mactavish were part of the New York "Oilers" Stanley Cup winning team in 1993-94.
Oops.

I remember Sather commenting that he wasn't going to give $1M to Joe Murphy, who he was negotiations with, because, if he was going to give that money to anyone on his team, it would be Lowe. I guess I assumed that the loyalty continued in the future, but, I guess he bolted as well.

Former Oilers on the cup-winning team:

Messier
Lowe
MacTavish
Graves
Anderson
Tikkanen
Beukeboom

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:40 PM
  #16
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
MacTavish
Anderson
Tikkanen
That trade deadline was wild (ok, Tik was the previous deadline). The #1 team (ok, I dont remember if they were #1 at the deadline... but they had to be close): trades away a bunch of young or speedy players (some helped them get to #1) for grinders before the playoffs. Or in other words... the end of the hockey season and the of Cage-Match season. If Keenan had Selanne back then, he probably would have traded him for King Kong Bundy.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:42 PM
  #17
Rico__Persson*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: St Kitts and Nevis
Posts: 3,583
vCash: 500
Hopefully Chris Phillips will end up being a lifetime player.

I would dangle a 7 year 19 million dollar deal in front of him. Obviously with some sort of a health-realted "out" for the team.

Rico__Persson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:51 PM
  #18
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson View Post
Hopefully Chris Phillips will end up being a lifetime player.

I would dangle a 7 year 19 million dollar deal in front of him. Obviously with some sort of a health-realted "out" for the team.
I hadn't thought much about it, but, Phillips is the most likely candidate for a very long term deal like that. It would probably take more than that amount (Jay McKee signed for $16M over just four years), but, the idea is, we could get his per year cap amount down, if we make a long-term committment to him.

As for an "out" in the contract, if he gets injured and can't play anymore, he'll get paid, and, the Sens can now exceed the cap by his salary, so, we would be okay in terms of cap space. The Sens will need to have insurance in place though, as, they don't want to be paying that type of money out of pocket for a guy not playing.

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 12:57 PM
  #19
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 500
Well, the out would be "team options" to end the deal.
The salary does look a little light though... I was thinking of Colin White's 5 yr/ $15M deal. McKee has spent a few years near the top of teh shot blocking leaders, no? I'd say that gives him a bit higher profile than Chris.

discostu, injuries are just plain bad under the cap.
- you're below the cap... and the replacement counts as well as the injured player.
- you're at the cap... the replacement doesn't count as long as his salary is below the injured players salary which does count. Oh, and pretty much no trade deadline for you big spender!

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 01:02 PM
  #20
Rico__Persson*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: St Kitts and Nevis
Posts: 3,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
I hadn't thought much about it, but, Phillips is the most likely candidate for a very long term deal like that. It would probably take more than that amount (Jay McKee signed for $16M over just four years), but, the idea is, we could get his per year cap amount down, if we make a long-term committment to him.

As for an "out" in the contract, if he gets injured and can't play anymore, he'll get paid, and, the Sens can now exceed the cap by his salary, so, we would be okay in terms of cap space. The Sens will need to have insurance in place though, as, they don't want to be paying that type of money out of pocket for a guy not playing.
I figured there had to be a normal out for all teams anyway. That makes sense.

I'm thinking Phillips is in a position to get low-balled. We all know how valueable he is, and how you can't put a price on a guy that shows up everytime for big games.

Until his recent goal scoring OUTBURST. Phillips had about 2 goals in the last 100 plus games. I would like to see the actual stat of how many games between his previous 3 goals. It had to be a while.

What I'm trying to get at is unfortunately for him, he best qualities are hard to bargain for. How much is a huge heart worth? How much for being widely respected in the dressing room and community? How much for playing a simple game and not worrying about goals and points? It's easy for a guy like Jagr to go to arbitration and win big...but special players like Phillips, well there may be a bargain to be had if you show him commitment over the long haul.

Rico__Persson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 01:16 PM
  #21
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson View Post
I figured there had to be a normal out for all teams anyway. That makes sense.

I'm thinking Phillips is in a position to get low-balled. We all know how valueable he is, and how you can't put a price on a guy that shows up everytime for big games.

Until his recent goal scoring OUTBURST. Phillips had about 2 goals in the last 100 plus games. I would like to see the actual stat of how many games between his previous 3 goals. It had to be a while.

What I'm trying to get at is unfortunately for him, he best qualities are hard to bargain for. How much is a huge heart worth? How much for being widely respected in the dressing room and community? How much for playing a simple game and not worrying about goals and points? It's easy for a guy like Jagr to go to arbitration and win big...but special players like Phillips, well there may be a bargain to be had if you show him commitment over the long haul.
There is no arbitration for Phillips, just what the market will bear. He's a UFA, and, I had heard rumblings that his agent wants him to test the market (the same thing we heard this time last year for Chara). It's precisely because arbitrators don't value the skills that players like Phillips brings, that it makes their first venture into UFA a risky one. A guy like McKee cashed in big, but, he also had a very high profile playoffs, that helped his cause. Still, if Ottawa does anything in the playoffs, you can bet that Phillips will play a huge part in that.


Phillips strikes me as a guy that would value long term security over the riskiness of a shorter term deal. If they don't get too cheap on him, he may bite, even against his agents reccomendations.

discostu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2006, 03:16 PM
  #22
Rico__Persson*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: St Kitts and Nevis
Posts: 3,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
Phillips strikes me as a guy that would value long term security over the riskiness of a shorter term deal. If they don't get too cheap on him, he may bite, even against his agents reccomendations.
I agree.

I was just using arbitration as a form of player comparison.

Rico__Persson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.