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With the careless 5 year - $ 15 million contract given by Holland ...

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11-28-2006, 04:07 PM
  #1
Joe T Choker
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With the careless 5 year - $ 15 million contract given by Holland ...

What counter-effect will it have on our crop of defensemen ...
Who will be the first to be traded from our defensive corp ? Suter, Hamhuis or Weber?

Kronwall has played 45 games in 03-04 & 28 games in 05-06

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11-28-2006, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe T Choker View Post
What counter-effect will it have on our crop of defensemen ...
Who will be the first to be traded from our defensive corp ? Suter, Hamhuis or Weber?

Kronwall has played 45 games in 03-04 & 28 games in 05-06
If that's how he wants to waste the Redwings cap space let him. He's no where near as talented as the 3 players you listed plus he older. We will re-sign and keep our guys

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11-28-2006, 04:25 PM
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Holland's idiocy will not affect Poile. Holland ignored reason, comparables, and performance in the contract. Really, the contract makes zero sense an all fronts.

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11-28-2006, 05:02 PM
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He's no where near as talented as the 3 players you listed plus he older.

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11-28-2006, 05:29 PM
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Joe T Choker
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he may be "as" talented ... but he sure as **** hasn't a) put up the numbers this year or b) STAYED Healthy in 2 of his last 3 seasons

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11-28-2006, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe T Choker View Post
he may be "as" talented ... but he sure as **** hasn't a) put up the numbers this year or b) STAYED Healthy in 2 of his last 3 seasons
Thanks, I didnt know that.

We'll see in a year or two.

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11-28-2006, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by arice89 View Post
Thanks, I didnt know that.

We'll see in a year or two.
Yeah, we will.

We keep hearing about how great Kronwall "will" be.

But one can't ignore how good Suter, Weber and Hamhuis already ARE.


But yeah, all that potential..that's something to feel good about, right?

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11-28-2006, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
Yeah, we will.

We keep hearing about how great Kronwall "will" be.

But one can't ignore how good Suter, Weber and Hamhuis already ARE.


But yeah, all that potential..that's something to feel good about, right?
You took the words right out of my mouth NMK.

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11-28-2006, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by arice89 View Post
We'll see in a year or two.
How many straight years are you guys going to use that line about Kronwall? At what point does consistent NHL-level success at the age of 25/26 begin to matter?

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11-28-2006, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
How many straight years are you guys going to use that line about Kronwall? At what point does consistent NHL-level success at the age of 25/26 begin to matter?
Oh, I dont know, maybe at the point he gets to play the majority of a season without a fluke injury? He broke his leg on a rut in warm-ups in 03-04 and tore knee ligaments in the pre-season last year. His international play has been nothing short of stellar, and it should carry over to the NHL. His numbers will go up once he's not playing behind Lidstrom and Schneider on the PP.

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11-28-2006, 08:36 PM
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Oh, I dont know, maybe at the point he gets to play the majority of a season without a fluke injury? He broke his leg on a rut in warm-ups in 03-04 and tore knee ligaments in the pre-season last year. His international play has been nothing short of stellar, and it should carry over to the NHL. His numbers will go up once he's not playing behind Lidstrom and Schneider on the PP.
Weber is playing behind Timonen AND Zidlicky, it's not hurting his numbers.

Oh, and he's a monster in his own end, as well.

But Kronwall...potential, man. Potential. Can't beat that.

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11-28-2006, 08:53 PM
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Kronwall has showed his dominance on all stages except the NHL due to injuries. He has the tools, he's been consistent, he's worth it.

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11-28-2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
Weber is playing behind Timonen AND Zidlicky, it's not hurting his numbers.

Oh, and he's a monster in his own end, as well.

But Kronwall...potential, man. Potential. Can't beat that.
Great for Weber. The kid's a budding star. I'm not saying he isnt.

I'm talking about Kronwall, you know, the guy who is "no where near as talented" as Suter, Hamuis, or Weber?

Kronwall has potential, and it will be fulfilled soon. He's snake-bitten, much like the rest of the Wings.

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11-28-2006, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Kronwall has showed his dominance on all stages except the NHL due to injuries. He has the tools, he's been consistent, he's worth it.
It's not meant as a knock on Kronwall...but Weber in particular, IMO, is on another level.

Enough so that the supposed experts, and even the fanboys here on HF, are questioning just how far apart he and Dion "god" Phaneuf really are.

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11-28-2006, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
It's not meant as a knock on Kronwall...but Weber in particular, IMO, is on another level.

Enough so that the supposed experts, and even the fanboys here on HF, are questioning just how far apart he and Dion "god" Phaneuf really are.
I've never doubted the fact that Weber is better than Kronwall (and Phaneuf).

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11-28-2006, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
It's not meant as a knock on Kronwall...but Weber in particular, IMO, is on another level.

Enough so that the supposed experts, and even the fanboys here on HF, are questioning just how far apart he and Dion "god" Phaneuf really are.
Watching Phaneuf and Weber play together on that gold-winning WJC team was a sight to behold. I'd rather have either of them than any other under 25 defenceman in the league. Pitkanen, Bouwmeister, Carle, Whitney, the Johnsons, whoever.

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11-28-2006, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe T Choker View Post
With the careless 5 year - $ 15 million contract given by Holland ...
What counter-effect will it have on our crop of defensemen ...
Almost none. You see, we have Jay Feaster over here in the Eastern conference and there really aren't many GM's this incompetent.

So,
your player asks for "undeserved contract that overrated player is making"...
is denied and told to go to Feaster/Holland...
Feaster/Holland think it's an outrage that said player isn't making 10% more than he is asking for...
but can't do anything about it because the team they've been in control of for a numbers of years (Holland isn't there yet) has spent all of it's cap money and is .500.
So the player has to come to a responsible GM who wants to keep his job longterm for a contract.

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11-28-2006, 11:39 PM
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Dear Nashville...let me know when any of your fine young d-men is named MVP of the World Championships

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11-28-2006, 11:41 PM
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This isn't about how good Kronwall "could-be", its about how average, to below average he IS as an NHL player thus-far in his career. Not only were his past two attempts to play in the NHL ended by severe, if fluke, injuries, there were also not on the level of a no. 1 or no. 2 defenseman. Fast forward to this year, and it is the same old tune with Kronwall. He is battling a groin problem, he isn't producing, he is having trouble dealing with the size of the NHL......Yet above all of that he is awarded a contract that will pay him up to 3.75 million dollars (thats top 2 defenseman money.) If Holland didn't "eke" out that 1.5 million dollar year, this contract would look absolutely horrible.

You want to know Kronwall's comparables right now? Try Mikko Lehtonen. You don't see us giving him a 5 year 15 million dollar deal right now...In fact, you do not even see us giving that out to Dan Hamhuis. He only netted a 4 year 8 million dollar deal. Check the stat-sheet on him. Not only does he outperform Kronwall in just about every statistical category, he plays tougher lines, more minutes.....oh and he will be averaging a million less per year, while being a no. 2 defenseman ALREADY.

Holland needs Kronwall to turn into a star by the end of next year for this deal to even look remotely good. Even then, I say this was a terrible use of cap-room for a guy that has zero leverage and is not even a top 3 defenseman, other than by default, at this point in his career....not to mention the injury concerns.

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11-28-2006, 11:43 PM
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Joe T Choker
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Dear Nashville...let me know when any of your fine young d-men is named MVP of the World Championships
The same tournament that no one plays when the Olympics are played in the same year? BRAVO

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11-29-2006, 01:18 AM
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Spare us...

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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
If that's how he wants to waste the Redwings cap space let him. He's no where near as talented as the 3 players you listed plus he older. We will re-sign and keep our guys
Please, spare us....... The Preds, via David Poile confirmed that Nashivlle picked up a check for about 10 million because they are a small market team. So, it's not like the Preds are going to be hard lucked to make the cap limit. If they can't afford 34 million US on their own, then that's an issue about the Nashville Market.

As for you Dmen. Hamhuis signed a long term deal, so don't worry about him until his deal is about to expire. As for Suter and Weber, worry about what Calgary, Chicago, and Ottawa will give Phaneuf, Seabrook, and Meszaros, as those will be the big benchmarks for your guys.

Remember, Holland bought out a couple of years of UFA from Kronvall. UFA age next summer is 27 with 4 years of NHL exp. Kronvall is a 2000 draftee, so he's 24 in 2006, so this deal, which expires in 2012 will expire when he's 30, so Kronvall gave up 3 years of UFA. That's why get got more than what you think he should have gotten.

As for Weber and Suter, as 2003 draftees, their ELC, expire in 2008 when they are 23 years old. So, you can still sign them to 3 year deals at decent money. It's when you get to 1 year before UFA status that the money will kick up big time.

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11-29-2006, 04:15 AM
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Dear Nashville...let me know when any of your fine young d-men is named MVP of the World Championships
You tell them! I'm so sick of the NHL being used as a barometer for how good a player is! I've been saying for years that international play is the true measure of a hockey player, and as such, I am one of the best in the world!

Signed,

Ville Peltonen and Jiri Dopita

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11-29-2006, 08:10 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong BUT-- is this not a thread in the Preds section? It sure has generated lots of outside interest...

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11-29-2006, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
As for you Dmen. Hamhuis signed a long term deal, so don't worry about him until his deal is about to expire. As for Suter and Weber, worry about what Calgary, Chicago, and Ottawa will give Phaneuf, Seabrook, and Meszaros, as those will be the big benchmarks for your guys.
While I understand where you are coming from with your post, the issue with the Kronwall deal is that it could easily affect Phaneuf, Seabrook, Meszaros, etc. When their deals expire, they are going to be looking around for comparables. And while Kronwall isn't a perfect comparable, I think they could easily rationalize their way into asking for a comparable deal. While Kronwall is giving up years of UFA that these guys might not be giving up in their deals, they are all better defensemen and will almost certainly have proven much, much more when they are ready to sit down and ink a new deal.


The concern Nashville fans have is that Holland has set the tone. Now, other GMs may be more conservative in their approach (of course, almost anything is more conservative than signing an injury-prone, marginally NHL productive, 25/26 year old with limited NHL experience to a 15 mil deal), but if they follow Holland's lead, it'll mean trouble.

It might actually turn into a unintentionally brilliant, strategic move by Holland because he's increased Suter and Weber's demands in an instant. It could end up costing Nashville several million a year over the next few seasons.

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11-29-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
You tell them! I'm so sick of the NHL being used as a barometer for how good a player is! I've been saying for years that international play is the true measure of a hockey player, and as such, I am one of the best in the world!

Signed,

Ville Peltonen and Jiri Dopita
Ouch!!! In honor of that burn, I bring out this to commerate the occasion:


http://Niklas.Kronwall.justgotowned.com

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