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Cechmanek not exactly the solution in LA

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11-28-2003, 08:31 AM
  #1
Mizral
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Cechmanek not exactly the solution in LA

A .500 record (8 wins, 8 losses, 1 tie), but perhaps more interestingly is that Cechmanek ranks 26th in GAA (2.35), and not even in the top 30 at all in Save %, with a .906 Save %.

Mind you, gong-show defense (at times) doesn't help matters, but while the Kings are actually not a bad team, Cechmanek isn't doing them any favours. Some people were too quick to ignore the Hitchc.ock factor in Cechmanek's previous stats in Philidelphia, I feel, and Roman is being exposed for what he's always been - a very average goaltender so far in LA. Not exactly the all-world stopper some were touting him as so far.

Have any of your opinions been changed with Cechmanek's play this season (Kings fans & non-Kings fans alike)? Does anybody still think this guy can push the Kings into winning their division like some thought he could? Or is it all the fault of injuries to the forwards?

EDIT: It is worth noting Huet is doing very, very well.


Last edited by Mizral: 11-28-2003 at 08:40 AM.
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11-28-2003, 08:34 AM
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Doesn't matter. Huet will take over.

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11-28-2003, 08:45 AM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
A .500 record (8 wins, 8 losses, 1 tie), but perhaps more interestingly is that Cechmanek ranks 26th in GAA (2.35), and not even in the top 30 at all in Save %, with a .906 Save %.

Mind you, gong-show defense (at times) doesn't help matters, but while the Kings are actually not a bad team, Cechmanek isn't doing them any favours. Some people were too quick to ignore the Hitch**** factor in Cechmanek's previous stats in Philidelphia, I feel, and Roman is being exposed for what he's always been - a very average goaltender so far in LA. Not exactly the all-world stopper some were touting him as so far.

Have any of your opinions been changed with Cechmanek's play this season (Kings fans & non-Kings fans alike)? Does anybody still think this guy can push the Kings into winning their division like some thought he could? Or is it all the fault of injuries to the forwards?
There is a lot of things wrong with the team... Cechmanek included. The team as a whole is going to have a difficult time finding their "groove" with the constant shifting of lines because everyone is dropping like flies. He's had strong games, and like last night, has had weak games. Much like the team thus far, he's been up and down with his play.

Aside from losing Palffy recently, Laperriere is now out as well... six of the regular forwards are out (Ally, Deader, Ziggy, Stumpel, Armstrong, Lappy... seven if you include Aulin) and the D is pretty soft after Norstrom and Miller.

Taylor mentioned that he would like to make one more addition of a d-man with "bite," but so far, they have been using Tim Gleason in sixth spot and he has done well, but they need to add another veteran, because Joe Corvo has been mediocre thus far. Kuznetsov finally returned last night and the Kings are hoping he could add a physical pressence on the blueline. Brad Norton, who was expected to make the team, also is out with an injury.

The team is also now depending on Frolov, Robitaille, Klatt, Cammalleri, Belanger, Brown to provide the offense... and I think that is a big burden, but they are responding and Frolov and Cammalleri have been producing.

I guess they have to now depend on consistent goaltending to save them right now and keep them above water until we finally have everyone back to health.


Last edited by Ziggy Stardust: 11-28-2003 at 08:47 AM.
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Old
11-28-2003, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Some people were too quick to ignore the Hitchc.ock factor in Cechmanek's previous stats in Philidelphia
That would be a fair point, but Cechmanek had three coaches in Philly and had the same results. His best season statistically was under Hitch, but his Vezina nomination was not.

EDIT: Apparently the board reset doesn't like the work Hitch****.


Last edited by Dr Love: 11-28-2003 at 08:50 AM.
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11-28-2003, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Some people were too quick to ignore the Hitchc.ock factor in Cechmanek's previous stats in Philidelphia, I feel, and Roman is being exposed for what he's always been - a very average goaltender so far in LA. Not exactly the all-world stopper some were touting him as so far.


How many times have you been reminded in the past that Roman only played 1 year for Hitch? He wans't in anything close to a defensive system his 1st two years and post equal or better numbers compared to his year under Hitch last year.

You're too quick too ingore just how much of a mental case Cechmanek is. Right now he just sucks and most likely it's because he's a mental pussbucket. Thats not an excuse for sucking, thats what he is, a fruitcake.

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11-28-2003, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
The same fruitcake you said was way better then Brodeur?
Which is what I was going to say.

Also, I knew Cechmanek only played one season under Hitch. However, that Flyers team has been defensive minded for years now. Maybe not to the level they are now, but certainly a defense-first team for the last few years.

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11-28-2003, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
The same fruitcake you said was way better then Brodeur?
No. The same fruitcake I said had a better regular season lats year then Broduer and he did. And it was all about the Vezina talk. I said if you want to give it to Brodeur as a lifetime achievement award fine, he deserves it. If you want to give it to him because he plays the most games for one of the best teams in the league, fine (though I think thats a lousy criteria). But you can't give it to him last year because he was the best.

Cechmanek had a great regular season last year, the year before and the year before. The Vezina is a regular season award. And remember, I said I thought Turco should have won it last year, not Cechmanek. And using Mir's arguement about Hitch, what could then be said about Brodeur? Ceraintly even with more coaches the Devil's have always been a defensive 1st system and better then the Flyers at that.

And Mir, the Flyers weren't a defense 1st team until Hitch. They weren't a wide open team, but they certianly weren't defensive 1st. They have just been more talented then *most* (but clearly not all teams) and that more then anything led to them being 11th and 7th in SOGA the two years before last.

And lastly, I'm not aruging that Roman doesn't suck right now. He does. I'm arguing about why. He was not a system goalie. He was a fruitcake that looks like he's finally gone off the deep end where for the last few years he dangled over the edge.


Last edited by Liquidrage*: 11-28-2003 at 09:01 AM.
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11-28-2003, 09:04 AM
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Ranks 19th in NHL in Goals Against Average (2.35) 2.18 GAA before lasts nights game
Ranks T-9th in NHL in Wins (8)
Ranks T-4th in NHL in Shutouts (3)

Not bad numbers playing for whats been essentially an AHL calibre team with all the injuries.

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11-28-2003, 09:05 AM
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Look, every goaltender (not named Roy or Brodeur, etc) goes through mental confidence issues through an 82-game season. The Kings were tired of dealing with Felix's inconsistencies, which I thought AM handled incredibly well. The one thing Felix has over Roman is that Felix has a style and technique that Kings' golatending coach Andy Nowicki can work with to correct and stabilize when things were off with Felix. It usually worked too. Felix had some bad stretches, but AM never lost faith in him because AM has a lot of faith in his players and especially his coaches.

Roman doesn't have a style. He's awkward and sometimes quite lazy as I'm seeing now. I can only imagine what Nowicki says to him in practice. It's not like he can work on his intensity and level of commitment. One would like to think as a pro for the last 3 or 4 years in the NHL, that he'd be motivated. I don't know what motivates this guy, but he better find the motivation quick.

The Kings are scoring goals somehow right now, and they can't afford to lose games where they score 3 or more goals.

It also bears noting that while AM ripped Roman in the paper after last night's loss, AM also took Modry and Visnovsky to task as well (maybe more viciously as he ripped RC).

I wonder if Mo's days in LA are numbered. I do believe he's a UFA after this season (CBA or not).


Last edited by Face Wash: 11-28-2003 at 09:08 AM.
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11-28-2003, 09:14 AM
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Personally, I think the Kings have bigger problems to deal with than goalie issues. People have said that Cech is a notorious slow starter in the beginning of the season. Hopefully he'll get on some sort of roll.

For now, I think the Kings have bigger issues to handle (like getting a d-man and/or forward... just like what Ziggy Stardust said, the youngsters have too big of a burden to carry without the big guns in the lineup. You're asking way too much from those youngins)...

also it doesn't help much when you cough up the puck in your own zone leaving Cechmanek out to dry... I think that's why Murray ripped Vish and Mo as well...
-3 and -4 respectively during last night's game.

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11-28-2003, 09:16 AM
  #11
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Why do people always throw stones at glass houses? Isn't LA a MASH unit right now, with all the injuries they've had? People blame injures on Detroit's lack of defense, which is BS, since all they're missing is Hatcher, it's the same core they has last year. LA is basically missing their top line, and they're aren't givving up the ship. Lots of goalies go through mental gaffs, some of them happen in the regular season, others happen in the post season, and last I looked Cloutier has proven just as little as Cechmanek in that regard.

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11-28-2003, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
You're too quick too ingore just how much of a mental case Cechmanek is. Right now he just sucks and most likely it's because he's a mental pussbucket. Thats not an excuse for sucking, thats what he is, a fruitcake.
Most great goalies are fruitcakes.

Unfortunately (for the Kings) not all fruitcakes are great goalies.

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11-28-2003, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by getnziggywidit
Most great goalies are fruitcakes.

Unfortunately (for the Kings) not all fruitcakes are great goalies.
Depends on how big they are.

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11-28-2003, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Have any of your opinions been changed with Cechmanek's play this season (Kings fans & non-Kings fans alike)? Does anybody still think this guy can push the Kings into winning their division like some thought he could? Or is it all the fault of injuries to the forwards?

EDIT: It is worth noting Huet is doing very, very well.
My opinions on Cechmanek are the same now as they were previously. I felt the Kings GM would wake up one morning shortly after making the move to bring him in and realize it was a big mistake. You just can't ignore those playoff follies where he darts almost to the blue line like a kid on a slip n slide and he gets his ass spanked fire engine red. You need a pacemaker in great working order just to watch him play if you are a fan of his team. John Grahame used to cause similar panic with the Bruins both in Providence and in Boston when he'd wander from the net and get burned time and time again, but he's nowhere near the same gambler now that he was previously. GoKimJonsson has an avatar demonstrating Brodeur's most embarassing goal in the playoffs against the Ducks, but what kills me is that when Cechmanek screws up he screws up royally and he doesn't ever seem to recover well right afterwards. With Brodeur the bad goal is gone and forgotten.


Last edited by Unthinkable: 11-28-2003 at 11:03 AM.
 
Old
11-28-2003, 11:10 AM
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Cechmanek has been very inconsistent from the beginning of the year and to tell you the truth he scares the hell out of me when he's in net....even if we are up by 2-3 goals late in a game! Many of you people are saying that he is a slow starter and he will pick it up mid way through the season, if that happens...then great, but we also need good goaltending NOW...I think that we have been very lucky , with the slow starts of Dallas and Anahiem to even be in a playoff spot! If we are to continue this, we need to have steady goaltending throughout the entire season , not just the last couple months that Roman gets "hot" (supposedly). With all the injuries facing this team our goaltending and defense is a must! I suppose the upside to all of this is that our young guys are getting....yes, even more time with the big club, and this team is going to be very powerful in the future with the experience guys like Squidy, Frolov, Gleason, etc. are getting now!

Go Kings Go

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11-28-2003, 10:42 PM
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i think he the kings goalie for many years to come.

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11-28-2003, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Evilo
Doesn't matter. Huet will take over.
So will you make the Kings your favorite Western team if he does? We can always use a few more good fans

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11-28-2003, 11:39 PM
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lets just hold back on all the checmanek was protected by the philly D talk until we see how hackett and esche does in a whole year...because no one can deny that checmanek's stats were realy impressive in philly

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11-28-2003, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy
lets just hold back on all the checmanek was protected by the philly D talk until we see how hackett and esche does in a whole year...because no one can deny that checmanek's stats were realy impressive in philly
Exactly. His regular season statistics were really impressive.

And his GAA was impressive in the playoffs.

So what?

Couldn't win come springtime, and his teammates and management clearly had no faith in him.

Clarke may have handled it wrong, but he made the right move in ditching him. Coincidence that the Flyers are flying :p with the less spectacular but very steady Esche and Hackett?

Yes, it's still only November, but anyone who has watched them knows this is a different Philly team than previous years. And the change in goal was the only significant change they made since last season (along with adding Pitkanen).

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11-29-2003, 12:09 AM
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i don't buy arguments about him being sheltered by the flyers' defense. i'm not going to say that the kings' defense is better than philly's; but at the same time, it is still better-than-average, and cechmanek does not usually see a lot of rubber. the difference is not that great.

the way it seems to me right now is that he's not showing up prepared, and he's not playing with intensity. he routinely gives up goals because he has completely fallen asleep. for a team like the kings, who are perpetually playing without some of their top players and thus have little room for error, that is unacceptable. if cechmanek was just being unlucky, or he was getting hung out to dry by his defense, then i could understand. but when he allows several unscreeed, poor angle shots to go in per game (see last night in phoenix), that is unacceptable. and its not as though he can't show up; he played brilliantly against his former team - and then he takes the night off against other opponents. if he were on my team and pulled stuff like that, his butt would be on the bench before he knew what hit him.

 
Old
11-29-2003, 02:27 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by DieHard
For the love of god, STOP TALKING ABOUT GAA!!! IT HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH GOALIE PERFORMANCE!

It's a team defense stat, not a goalie stat!!!
All goalie stats are team stats dude. GAA no more than others.

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11-29-2003, 02:28 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire
So will you make the Kings your favorite Western team if he does? We can always use a few more good fans
I don't have anything against the Kings. But yes I've been saying to Kings fans Huet was the real deal for a while now, and I'll be cheering for Huet to succeed, in LA or elsewhere.

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11-29-2003, 07:49 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by DieHard
GAA is more of a team stat than goalie stat. Save-% is MUCH better stat when you want to assess goalie performance (and it's far from perfect too, just miles ahead of GAA)
Save percentage is misleading too.
Some teams do a great work giving up low percentage shots. Their goalie's save percentage rockets, but the goalie isn't better. Some goalies on the other hand face 5 breakaways a game, and their save percentage isn't good. Are they worse?

GAA is just as much of a goalie stat than save percentage IMO.

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11-29-2003, 08:58 AM
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Mizral
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Originally Posted by DieHard
GAA is more of a team stat than goalie stat. Save-% is MUCH better stat when you want to assess goalie performance (and it's far from perfect too, just miles ahead of GAA)
Save % is no better than GAA. Actually, I am a bigger fan of a GAA stat. While it doesn't always show the better goaltender, it shows the better goaltender for the team. Save % can be very misleading, since goaltenders who face a lot of shots traditionally do better than those who face very few.

Cechmanek, as I've said, 90% he's a decent goaltender. However, it's not about the saves he makes. He lets in such terrible goals at bad times, that he kills his teams momentum. On the Flyers, they were so good defensivly, this was forgivable. The Kings are not nearly as good defensivly (don't give me the shots faced stat, look at the goals against!), and it's showing in Cechmanek's statistics.

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11-29-2003, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Save % is no better than GAA. Actually, I am a bigger fan of a GAA stat. While it doesn't always show the better goaltender, it shows the better goaltender for the team. Save % can be very misleading, since goaltenders who face a lot of shots traditionally do better than those who face very few.
Then again, going by GAA you'd have though Patrick Roy sucked in juniors, when it was all due to playing behind lousy defensive teams.

Certainly, the number of shots can influence save % ... but unless you're one of those 2-3 goalies who plays for a tremendous defensive team that can have stretches where the goalie does nothing, the statistical variation between the number of shots that the vast majority of goalies face is not all that significant.

Is there going to be a huge difference in save % when you're talking about 30 shots vs. 40? No, because either way the goalie's getting regular work. OTOH, it will typically average to a goalie giving up almost an extra goal per game. Whereas 20 shots vs. 30 is different, because 20 shots means that goalie's probably had half the night off, and has to pick himself up for a tough save at some point.

Bottom line, there's not a goalie in the world who would rather face 30 shots than, say 15, and I'll bet it's a heck of a lot easier to get a shutout facing fewer shots rather than more. Even if Sv% is affected by as much as 3-4%, if you halve the shots and work out the percent likelihood of a shutout, it definitely favors the guy facing fewer shots. And that means he's going to have a much better GAA as well, unless his save % totally reeks.

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