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(not a troll but) I have to ask

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Old
12-01-2006, 09:38 PM
  #1
Kreed
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(not a troll but) I have to ask

why is it that when players leave the Ottawa Senators they seem to flourish to greater pastures in one way or another. You know the names I am talking about and now in a long list of ex senators a one Tyler Arnason has started to finally get his act together. What is it about this organisation that makes players not play to their fullest potential.

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12-01-2006, 09:50 PM
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Pothier
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What it it with all those players that flourish in Ottawa and do nothing elsewhere? McEachrean, Rhodes, Dackell, Lalime, and to a lesser extent Bonk, all come to mind. I'm sure I'm missing a ton of guys as well.

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Old
12-01-2006, 10:11 PM
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to be honest this is really a silly question. There are tons of times when a player leaves a team and they get better... Arnason is trying to make up for a horrible season last year. Demitra (if that's one of the other Sens you're thinking of) never really was played too much plus we had guys like Alfie, Hossa, Yashin, many other go-to guys. Hossa and Chara you can't really say they start to flourish when they leave Ottawa, they are doing pretty much the same. Although Hossa broke out only because of the new nhl. Pothier already pointed out that there were plenty of busts or near busts. Sometimes a player just gets lucky...

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12-01-2006, 10:12 PM
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DoctorDoak
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Plenty of other guys - Lance Pitlick, Shaun van Allen, Magnus Arvedson, Jason York, Alexei Yashin until this year, they all had the best years of their careers in an Ottawa uniform, or their play dropped off substantially when traded.

This happens with plenty of other teams... we have trades we regret because a player blossoms after leaving, and trades that look like steals because of the transformation of the player after they are acquired.

Yes we traded Demitra for Christer Olsson. But Pittsburgh traded Markus Naslund for Alex Stojanov. For most teams, it all comes out in the wash. Next question!

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12-01-2006, 10:12 PM
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Sting
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More often than not that player is down our depth chart because of the high level of talent spread throughout our lineup. You put one of them on a ****** team and their numbers are higher due to more ice time and a bigger role.

There's just as many who have done nothing outside of Ottawa though.

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Old
12-01-2006, 10:12 PM
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I don't agree that the premise holds for all ex-Senators but one factor to consider is that Ottawa has always been a very young team and deep. Most players who leave Ottawa either haven't yet reached their potential, or are given greater roles on their new teams.

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12-01-2006, 10:18 PM
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Ismellofhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreed View Post
why is it that when players leave the Ottawa Senators they seem to flourish to greater pastures in one way or another. You know the names I am talking about and now in a long list of ex senators a one Tyler Arnason has started to finally get his act together. What is it about this organisation that makes players not play to their fullest potential.
Actally maybe you should provide a list because aside from Hossa and Havlat I don't really see who you could be talking about.
Hossa was let go for financial reasons, most people will tell you they knew he was one of the top players in the league but when you have Redden, Chara, Alfredsson and Spezza in a cap world something has to give.
The same thing happened this year with Havlat: financial pressures made us trade him but we all knew how good he was and he was playing the same way in Ottawa as in Chicago: superstar one day, injured the next.

Another casualty of the cap, Chara isn't playing any better now than he was in Ottawa.
As for Arnason, he showed up out of shape, didn't have a chance to adjust because of his ftness level, got a big hit to the head soon after his trade and then didn't want to take a pay cut. He's really the only one who's performance is a surprise to Sens fans.

So really I guess that's your answer? It's not that they underperform in Ottawa (other than Arnason), it's that we wouldn't have let them go if it weren't for financial reasons.

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Old
12-01-2006, 10:30 PM
  #8
OttawaGM
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Basically it comes down to a few things:

1) Most of these guys leave Ottawa to go to teams where they will play a lot more minutes. While they may have had 18-20 min here they get 24-26 some where else, which increases output.

2) Most of the guys who 'improve' left Ottawa very young and if there hadn't been a cap would have improved here just the same.

3) As for Arnason he came here with nothing to prove and played like crap. Then in the off season when he realised that no teams were interested in a slacking player he took a paycut and whatever contract he could on a 1 year deal hoping to play like heck this year and cash in. That doesn't mean he improved, it means he has a crappy attitude and only plays when there's $ involved.

You say they didn't play to their full potential here? If anything these players you mention should be THANKING Ottawa a 1000 times over for getting them to play to their full potential while they were in Ottawa, allowing them to cash in as well as they have in the FA market.

While in Ottawa Hossa and Thorton were often compared to each other and yet somehow Hossa didn't play to his potential in Ottawa? Right....

Better questions would be why does every team covet Ottawas players so much? Why does Ottawa have such a good record of developing talent while the teams you say they 'improved' on can't develop any form of talent on their own and have to bribe Ottawa players with $$ to get them on their teams?


Last edited by OttawaGM: 12-01-2006 at 10:37 PM.
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Old
12-01-2006, 10:34 PM
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senility
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As for Havlat, this is his first real season with the new rules. He was hurt almost all of last year. When he was playing, he was pretty much just as good for us as he has been for the Blackhawks. Before that, his lower production can be easily explained by his yough, the fact that he was constantly being hooked and held to slow him down, and the fact that he was third on the right wing depth chart, playing with snipers like Shawn Van Allen.

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Old
12-01-2006, 10:57 PM
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mjdm
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I don't agree with your question. The only person in my mind that recently been traded and is having a terrific season is Tyler Arnason. I think maybe Arnason just didn't want to be here in Ottawa. Maybe he prefers the states.

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Old
12-01-2006, 10:57 PM
  #11
moz
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Everything balances out. Every team has players leave who flourish elsewhere, and who flop elsewhere. Every team has players who come in and light it up, and ones who fizzle out. I really don't think Ottawa has any less/more than others.


Besides Arnason has anyone who left been performing signficantly better than they did in a Sens uniform? I can't think of any one.

As for Havlat and Hossa, well players keep getting better until they hit 30, then the downhill slide starts. Would be the same whether they were playing for Ottawa, Atlanta, Anaheim or Columbus.

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Old
12-01-2006, 11:23 PM
  #12
NyQuil
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Arnason was humiliated by the Senators and Muckler when he was brought in to be a 2nd line centre and then was scratched for the playoffs.

As a result, he apparently worked quite hard in the off-season to improve his conditioning.

Some players just need a wake-up call. All the power to him, I guess.

As for his play as a Senator, the positives he brought to the team can be measured in shifts.

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Old
12-02-2006, 12:29 PM
  #13
sensens
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I'd say it's a combination of the fact that many of these players not only now play bigger roles, but also left the team in their mid-20's, which isn't necessarily a player's prime. They weren't necessarily moved because management felt they'd maxed out on their potential, but due to other considerations - usually financial (in the case of Yashin, Hossa, and Havlat). I'm glad for Arnason that he got his act together, but this isn't the same player who was wearing a Sens uniform last season. You could add Prospal to the list of people who have done better after being with the Sens, though in many ways playing for Ottawa energized his career - especially during Yashin's holdout year. Chara was essentially a third-pairing half-goon defenceman before coming to Ottawa. In terms of players who have had their best seasons in Ottawa or whose careers got on track with the team, the list is actually pretty long - it's just that more than almost any other team Ottawa builds through the draft, so there's comparitively less of a chance for players to come to the team to become a top-line talent versus them developing a star talent and having to part ways with them.


Last edited by sensens: 12-02-2006 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
12-02-2006, 12:51 PM
  #14
Egil
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I think Arnason needed a kick in the ***, and we provided that kick.

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Old
12-03-2006, 10:59 PM
  #15
o-dog
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Why even bother talking about Arnason? He had a decent start but has tailed off since (7 pts in 13 games, 3 of those in one game). Would he be the 2nd line centre here over Fisher or Vermette? No way...good riddance....

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Old
12-04-2006, 08:20 AM
  #16
Brandi
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The problem is Ottawa has generally had a lot of depth , and still do, so it's hard to break the bold.

Not often are we missing a key player, so when we do aquire, you have to really stand out and do something great.

We have 3 solid lines. Sure, we can make some trades here and there, but still, 3 solid lines that are starting to contribue and click.

Just a thought.

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Old
12-04-2006, 12:14 PM
  #17
armani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o-dog View Post
Why even bother talking about Arnason? He had a decent start but has tailed off since (7 pts in 13 games, 3 of those in one game). Would he be the 2nd line centre here over Fisher or Vermette? No way...good riddance....
Agreed.


Last edited by armani: 12-04-2006 at 12:29 PM.
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