HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Why is our Defense so Bad?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2006, 09:28 AM
  #1
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Why is our Defense so Bad?

or at the very least INCONSISTANT.

Really havent these guys played the game their whole lives? You'd think they have this down by now.

Our defense has played a handful of EXCELLENT games. They have the ability.....so why do they just outright suck sometimes?

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 10:24 AM
  #2
IanB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Someone mentioned before, I think it was 'Trottier' in the Isles GDT, that the Rangers gave the Islanders too much space in the neutral zone, and made an average skating team much better than they really are.

When you look at some of our better games of the year, the game against San Jose for instance, our forwards were always backchecking hard and supporting the defense.

One of Cullens' few goals this season came as the result of a turnover forced by a Ranger backcheck in that game. If we commit to that type of game, defense first/counter attack, that would help us out alot.

Our problem, then, is when we fail to do that, our defensemen get exposed and our goalies are hung out to dry.

IanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 10:57 AM
  #3
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,022
vCash: 500
Awards:
The problem is they are all very similar players. Nobody does one thing particularly well and it's a team of #4 defensemen.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 11:03 AM
  #4
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Exactly what...

I was going to say, SBoB, although I was going to use the word mediocre. When you have a top-flight top pairing, the inconsistencies of the other pairings are masked, or often don't come out as much as their jobs are easier (i.e., pairings are mismatched against top lines). This is very similar to this team's center position.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 11:06 AM
  #5
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,022
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I was going to say, SBoB, although I was going to use the word mediocre. When you have a top-flight top pairing, the inconsistencies of the other pairings are masked, or often don't come out as much as their jobs are easier (i.e., pairings are mismatched against top lines). This is very similar to this team's center position.
The entire defense corp is a lot like the third and fourth lines. Very similar. Marginal upside and extremely incosistent.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 11:14 AM
  #6
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,183
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
You can say whatever you want about our D, but the goaltending lastnight sucked. That title on TSN should read, Kozlov owns Weekes glove, not that he owns the Rangers. Lundqvist wasn't much better but damn was Weekes bad..........how do you blame the D when our goalies get beat to the hi glove all night?

Radek27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 11:40 AM
  #7
Doyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,151
vCash: 500
The fifth goal is the one imo that killed us. We had all the momentum going into the third and the D broke down enough for a out of position weekes to let in a goal on the door step. No idea why weekes stayed in the middle of the net when the puck was clearly to his right and just pushed in...

Doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 11:47 AM
  #8
Onion Boy
Registered User
 
Onion Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: Japan
Posts: 2,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRaws View Post
The fifth goal is the one imo that killed us. We had all the momentum going into the third and the D broke down enough for a out of position weekes to let in a goal on the door step. No idea why weekes stayed in the middle of the net when the puck was clearly to his right and just pushed in...
That one has to be blamed on Betts, not Weekes.

Onion Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:11 PM
  #9
frozenrubber
Registered User
 
frozenrubber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You can say whatever you want about our D, but the goaltending lastnight sucked. That title on TSN should read, Kozlov owns Weekes glove, not that he owns the Rangers. Lundqvist wasn't much better but damn was Weekes bad..........how do you blame the D when our goalies get beat to the hi glove all night?
Wow, if a post could ever show the disparity of Ranger fans laying (or not laying) blame on a goaltender, this is the official quote.

"Lundqvist wasn't much better"...Weekes was in just to mop up the Lundqvist mess. I love Henrik as much as anyone, but that was a total stinker of a 1st.

As for Weekes, what of his past performances made you think he was going to shut the Islanders out for the rest of the game? 3 goals in 2 periods (regardless of shots) is exactly what one could expect of him.

Regardless of Shanahan heroics, a 4 goal deficit is just too deep and difficult to dig out of.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 12-04-2006 at 12:19 PM.
frozenrubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:13 PM
  #10
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You can say whatever you want about our D, but the goaltending lastnight sucked. That title on TSN should read, Kozlov owns Weekes glove, not that he owns the Rangers. Lundqvist wasn't much better but damn was Weekes bad..........how do you blame the D when our goalies get beat to the hi glove all night?

Eh...last night aside our tenders have been waaaaaaay better than our Defense

Henrik has outright won us some games with WOLRD CLASS efforts...and Weekes has kept us in games as well

I hate to say this but we should deal some pieces to land some solid D men. It has to be done, this year or in the summer. The kids coming up on D have some promise but realisticly Mark Staal is not going to come in here and instantly be a #1 D man. If thats what we're hanging on to we're in for some dissappointment

1. Just waive Kasper, buy him out, make him a coach, whatever. If he can't play free the $$$ for someone who can

2. Every realistic trade rumor with the Rangers involves Prucha, Montoya, Immomen and one of our lackluster D men, Malik, Rosi etc

Maybe there is no one out there willing to deal....maybe MaloneySlats feels the chips are best played at the deadline when teams are more desperate to aquire a piece or dump salary. But this team as is...Not built to win in the playoffs. IF they even make the playoffs

Make the trade already.

The Rangers also very consistantly suck in back to back games. The top line is deadly but those guys are all closer to 40 than 30 and can't be expected to double shift all year and have ANYTHING left in the Spring. We all see it...the other teams see it...THEY KNOW IT.

Our third and 4th lines are filled with guys that are easy to like. Prucha, Ward, Hollweg, Hall, Betts, Hossa. They work hard but they are just not playmakers. Not one of them. We have an abundance of hard working non playmakers who get out on the ice basiclly to let the 1st line + Shanny rest for a minute.


Perhaps we ask too much. Are they really rebuilding after all? They bring in Shanny and Ward and Cullen, we see Jagr pulling some dominant shifts and Marty and Nylander having career years, Henrik with a steller game or two and we start getting excited, when infact this team has a HUGE holes in the defense.

I like Sandis Ozolinsh. I just do. I like that he is an offense threat from the D position. I like that he seems to be making the very most of a second chance here, but he just can't be expected to play 20+ minutes a night and not have lapses. It's not his place to be that guy. It's almost unfair to put him in that position.....But thats what we have. I mean Renny is a lifelong Hockey guy. He must be making these descions based on some assesment criteria, but what?

Malik makes ANY team seem fast

Rosival...why is he on the point on the PP when we have Ozolinsh? Oh right Ozo has to play all the even strength minutes he can.

Toots- has had some bad games but more often than not impresses me ( Please don't trade Toots)

Ward- Is this guy aware that the Islanders are our historicly biggest rival. That they play hard EVERY game aginst the NYR regardless of who the coach is or what player is in or out of their line up....I guess he knows now

Rachunek - inconsistant, not as terrible as some believe, but inconsistant

Kasper- MOST CONSISTANT D MAN WE HAVE. Very consistantly not able to play.

Pock - How would we even know?


Last edited by I Am Chariot: 12-04-2006 at 12:19 PM.
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:35 PM
  #11
Taz
Registered User
 
Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Letchworth
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,235
vCash: 500
Well the defence has too many guys not really excellent at defence or shutting down a team, Ozo- below average at defence, Malik- Slow and mistake prone this season too many minutes, Rachunek- Inconsistant, average at defence not too much offensive qualities being shown. Rozsival is ok but playing too many minutes a night and shouldnt be on the Point all the time. Tyutin has been good as has Ward, but still prone to slight incosistancy issues.

You put them all togther and it is a mess, you might be able to hide it if it was just the 1-2 of them but it is literally 4-5 stuggling or just not suited for their role. I would honestly like a shutdown defender and package off/waive Ozo just to sure up the defence, its not like he is adding a ton of offence which he was brought here for.

Taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:44 PM
  #12
dank
Registered User
 
dank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,867
vCash: 500
last year they played out of their skates, and above their abilities..

this year, we're/they're down to earth..


thats why before this season started i had a skeptical feeling about the team and their ability to re-do last year. too many things have to click..

now don't get me wrong, i am a huge fan, have season tickets, was at last nights game and will continue to go, but we have to admit to ourselves that this team is not going to contend this year...... unless things click again and/or we shore up the defense.. (Center position is 2ndary i think)..

dank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:52 PM
  #13
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The problem is they are all very similar players. Nobody does one thing particularly well and it's a team of #4 defensemen.
That's the core.

They are all guys who play in the 3-6 role. Not as much of a problem if you have legit guys in front of them but if that's all you have it's not enough.

You have guys playing above their heads and it impacts the entire defense.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 12:59 PM
  #14
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The entire defense corp is a lot like the third and fourth lines. Very similar. Marginal upside and extremely incosistent.
And like those lines, you can't hope that playing them above their heads will magically cover the fact that you don't have a better player to fill the role.

I don't think these guys by themself are horrible, but when you lack top end defenseman and force guys to play higher levels than they should, it impacts the entire defense.

In the past guys like Rachunek and Malik were able to play behind some really good defenseman. Here they are playing the role of the guys who played ahead of them in the past. Simply put, they can't.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 01:02 PM
  #15
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dank View Post
last year they played out of their skates, and above their abilities..

this year, we're/they're down to earth..


thats why before this season started i had a skeptical feeling about the team and their ability to re-do last year. too many things have to click..

now don't get me wrong, i am a huge fan, have season tickets, was at last nights game and will continue to go, but we have to admit to ourselves that this team is not going to contend this year...... unless things click again and/or we shore up the defense.. (Center position is 2ndary i think)..
Personally I think the center position is just as important.

The difference is that right now the first line is covering just how big of a hole that is, but when that line slows down (which is inevitable) I think people are going to see just how big of a problem it really is.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 01:30 PM
  #16
NYR94
Registered User
 
NYR94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,749
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NYR94
You guys nailed it on the head with the "mediocre" description. The defense is just a bunch of #4-6 defensemen. If this is a problem they can address sometime before the deadline, then Sather has to do it if the price makes sense. Of course, almost every team in the NHL is going to be looking for help on D come March, and more often than not the players available at that time are more like depth defensemen than top-pairing guys.

NYR94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 01:35 PM
  #17
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
This is going to sound like a contradiction of what I said earlier in the pre-season, but I'm curious about Leetch now.

Ozo to me is probably the most worthless guy on the blueline (and that doesn't say much).

He can't play defense (nothing changed there) but he's not an offensive defenseman anymore. That was the one thing that kept him in this league for so long and if he doesn't have that he's just not bringing anything at this point.

The other guys at least stand a chance of bringing something, however rare or inconsistent it might be.

The Ozo project hasn't worked since day one. It's time to pull the plug.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 02:00 PM
  #18
Sather Hater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 435
vCash: 500
To me the biggest problem right now is the Ozo/Rachunek pairing. It seems everynight they are on the ice for the majority of the goals against (combined with many turnovers leading to goals, and actually putting a few pucks in their own net).

Last night against the Islanders was just a rare poor outing for both Lundqvist and Weekes so it's hard to judge, but again like usual Ozolinsh was on the ice for 4 goals against. I can't even keep track of how many times this season on a goal against Ozo and Rachunek are just standing around the side of the net watching as the other team scores.

Like Edge said if Ozo isn't putting points up on the board he is useless. He has a total of 3 assists in 19 games. Pock has a goal and an assist (2 pts) in 6 games.

I know everyone likes to talk about how bad Malik and Rozsival are, but to me that is the least of the team's problems. Personally, I can live with Malik/Rozsival & Ward/Tyutin pairings. If they can upgrade the last d pairing, I think they would be in much better shape.

I think it's time for a Kaspar/Pock pairing, and let Ozo/Rachunek sit. Or maybe go back to Tyutin/Kaspar, and try Ward/Pock. Tyutin/Kaspar played most of last season together and seemed to have good chemistry. Ward might be able to cover up for any of Pock's inexperience, etc.

Sather Hater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 02:01 PM
  #19
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
The goalies certainly didn't bail the team out, but look at where the shots were taken from. Look at how much time and space the shooters had. It is the defense's job to keep those shots to a minimum. Coverage is still awful in our zone.

DutchShamrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 02:08 PM
  #20
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
My wife, bless her heart, even notices some obvious things with the Rangers.

She's not exactly an avid fan but even she comments about how the Rangers always seem to scrambling in their own zone whereas other teams so calm and relaxed.

It's not like someone has to be watching hockey for 15 years to really see how this team reacts in its own zone.

Frankly it's embarassing to watch, I always feel knots in my stomach whenever this team is asked to play defense.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 02:11 PM
  #21
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Funny you say that, Edge...

my wife, who hates hockey and watches about 15 minutes a season, has said the same thing, and has also asked why it seems like the other team is pushing around the Rangers. I actually defend the Rangers and tell her to do something useful, but sometimes she's right and she knows zero about the sport.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 03:30 PM
  #22
g52*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,582
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to g52*
Trade Prucha and Rachunek in a package for a D-man.

Move Ozo down to Hartford and Kasper and Pock can compete for his opening.

g52* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 03:55 PM
  #23
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 28,125
vCash: 500
"Why is your defense so bad?"

First, I accept your description for the purposes of this thread.

If you are looking at your D corp as a separate entity unto itself, I'd suggest that overall they lack mobility, relative to the top D corps in the league. Bluntly, Malik, Rozsival (occasionally), Rachunek (surprisingly to me), etc. have seemed to lack the quickness (turning radius in tight spaces) you see in D squads like Buffalo, Carolina, etc.

That said, you can have 6 all-stars on the backline and if you allow your opponent to waltz through the neutral zone and cross the blueline with speed, you are still going to be on your heels. That happened repeatedly last night vs. NYI, and I've seen same for NYR especially against faster skating teams than the Isles.

To a large extent, that's positioning and effort by your forwards. This NYR team looks slower than last year, and I'm personally not so sure it's a matter of D personnel alone.

Trottier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 04:04 PM
  #24
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sather Hater View Post
I think it's time for a Kaspar/Pock pairing, and let Ozo/Rachunek sit. Or maybe go back to Tyutin/Kaspar, and try Ward/Pock. Tyutin/Kaspar played most of last season together and seemed to have good chemistry. Ward might be able to cover up for any of Pock's inexperience, etc.
This is what I'm saying. Sit Ozo/Rachunek, Rachunek/Malik or Malik/Ozo and dress Kaspar and Pock and let Tyutin play with Kaspar.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2006, 04:08 PM
  #25
Cherepanov 71
Registered User
 
Cherepanov 71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
because they are no good.

Cherepanov 71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.