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Why is our Defense so Bad?

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Old
12-04-2006, 04:12 PM
  #26
Edge
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
my wife, who hates hockey and watches about 15 minutes a season, has said the same thing, and has also asked why it seems like the other team is pushing around the Rangers. I actually defend the Rangers and tell her to do something useful, but sometimes she's right and she knows zero about the sport.
I was sitting down watching the Ranger/Sabres game (I usually DVR and then play it back when I get home) and she decided to join me.

She just turned to me and said "The other team looks so comfortable moving the puck, they don't seem to be clogged in their own zone and they really seem confident in what they're doing.

And the truth is she was right. The Rangers have a lot of stretches where they really look choppy. They look like they have trouble skating, moving the puck, heck they can't handle the puck.

It almost seems like from a natural talent perspective a lot of these guys hit the wall and when they do it's very noticeable.

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12-04-2006, 06:45 PM
  #27
True Blue Bleed Blue
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They don't hit, they don't defend, all they do is hold, slap, and hook. They don't even take offensive gambles or risks. I don't know what they do well. Ward-Toots-Rozey have developed nicely but I just don't see anything from the other 3 and would like to see a kid or Dale-Kasper-Pock replace them. We need to start taking the body and make other teams punish for making passes and taking shots. Also...clear out the front of the net!

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12-04-2006, 07:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The problem is they are all very similar players. Nobody does one thing particularly well and it's a team of #4 defensemen.
That is being fairly generous, Singin'. At leats half the defensemen on this team are a #6 on a good night, and #7 on others.

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12-04-2006, 08:31 PM
  #29
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When most of your D corps is a 6th or 7th on a legit team, and they don't skate, like last night, they are bound to have problems. Another reason Ozo/Rachunek seem to be on the ice when many goals are scored (besides being poor defenders), is that Tom uses Rosie on point on the pp. When the pp is over, the oppositins top line comes on the ice, and Renney puts out Ozo/Rachunek every time, because he now can't match his top line pair (Malik/Rosie), because he's resting his top line. The other teams best players score almost every night, right after a Ranger PP, and Renney has yet to figure this out. The D is also bad becuse NY dosen't back check consistantly, and the D can't handle the pressure. Notice how flustered and running around they seem to play after a bad clearing. One bad clear, or blocked pass, and they fall apart. The problem is they need two D men, and Sather won't even trade for one, let alone put some youth in. As bad as Purinton was/is, he at least hurt guys in his own end. Rosie, Rachunek, Ozo, Malik, seem to take pleasure in watching the opposition stand around in the crease.

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12-04-2006, 09:04 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
or at the very least INCONSISTANT.

Really havent these guys played the game their whole lives? You'd think they have this down by now.

Our defense has played a handful of EXCELLENT games. They have the ability.....so why do they just outright suck sometimes?
We have a duplicate set rosy & Malik and then Ozo & Rachunek. One pair is enough. We are buting time until people like Staal, Sauer & Baranka are ready.

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12-04-2006, 10:26 PM
  #31
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Getting Brian Leetch or whoever else isn't going to stop pucks going over the goalies gloves on shots on top of the circles. I'm not saying the D was great lastnight, but the goaltending was worse IMO. Kozlov should have had 6 goals if he kept shooting at the same spot.

As far as the D goes there isn't a top pairing guy on the team. What do you expect out of this group?

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12-04-2006, 10:49 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
They don't hit, they don't defend, all they do is hold, slap, and hook. They don't even take offensive gambles or risks. I don't know what they do well. Ward-Toots-Rozey have developed nicely but I just don't see anything from the other 3 and would like to see a kid or Dale-Kasper-Pock replace them. We need to start taking the body and make other teams punish for making passes and taking shots. Also...clear out the front of the net!
agreed, since our defense is the problem and most of the teams would want prucha or a young prospect for a defensive dman, why not just change the system and play the boring trap to start and see if that works. With our talent, the trap might not be a bad idea. We got the talent to score goals. Its stoping them is the problem. anyone agree, id rather see boring hockey win 3-2 then lose these 7-4 games.

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12-04-2006, 11:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Getting Brian Leetch or whoever else isn't going to stop pucks going over the goalies gloves on shots on top of the circles. I'm not saying the D was great lastnight, but the goaltending was worse IMO. Kozlov should have had 6 goals if he kept shooting at the same spot.

As far as the D goes there isn't a top pairing guy on the team. What do you expect out of this group?
No, but a competent defensive corps will limit those shots from the tops of the circles. They will limit the time the forwards have to set up their shots. They will limit the shots from the slot. Our group doesn't do that. The blame on the goaltending last night is baffling. A simple weave by two forwards leads to Asham getting a wide open shot inside the faceoff dots. A terrible turnover while Lundqvist was down leads to an empty net goal. An unattended Simon was allowed to walk to the slot and shoot unmolested.

You give anyone in this league the time and space to shoot to the top corners and they are going to score a majority of the time. That is the essence of the butterfly style and why it is so effective. Because forwards don't get that time necessary to shoot to the top half of the net the butterfly style works. When the defense is noncommittal and unwilling to mark forwards shots will get through.

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12-04-2006, 11:51 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
We are buting time until people like Staal, Sauer & Baranka are ready.
Well if that is the case, we're just wasting time. A shame too because our first line is so dominant, AND fun to watch.

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Old
12-05-2006, 12:21 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post

The difference is that right now the first line is covering just how big of a hole that is, but when that line slows down (which is inevitable) I think people are going to see just how big of a problem it really is.
I agree that a major problem with this team is the fact that only the Jagr line and Shanahan seem to be capable of scoring goals. And I do think its inevitable that Shanny slows down. BUT, it is clear that Jagr isnt 100%, mainly because his shot is not what we saw last year. Assuming that Jagr works his way back to full strength and gets that same shot back, why should we assume that they will slow down?

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12-05-2006, 01:06 AM
  #36
CM Lundqvist
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The defense SUCKS, let's not sugarcoat anything here. These are marginal NHL defenders aside from Tyutin and Ward, who belong - at their best - on the 2nd pair.

Malik, Rozsival, Rachunek, and Bozolinsh are all pylons.

Our best pairing in Tyutin and Ward has been terribly inconsistent.

And on top of that, Lundqvist can't find his game consistently, to make things that much worse.

A trade for a top-pairing guy has to be made, and if Prucha has to go, then so be it. I know one guy won't change everything, but at least players will be able to play more comfortably. A #2 or #3 guy wouldn't hurt as well.

Nevermind the fact that we also need a #2 playmaking center.

Larry Brooks was smoking rocks when he said this team was going to win the cup.

What pisses me off more is the lackluster efforts from guys like Malik, Rozsival, Rachunek, and Ozolinsh... wasn't accountability one of the things that Tom Renney preached when he walked in the door? May I ask where that went? May I ask where the young guns are, and why they're there? I mean at this point, I'd rather at least call them up to see what they can do. Baranka, Liffiton, Pock... give these guys a shot.

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Old
12-05-2006, 01:12 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
I agree that a major problem with this team is the fact that only the Jagr line and Shanahan seem to be capable of scoring goals. And I do think its inevitable that Shanny slows down. BUT, it is clear that Jagr isnt 100%, mainly because his shot is not what we saw last year. Assuming that Jagr works his way back to full strength and gets that same shot back, why should we assume that they will slow down?
Because when you ride a line that much it happens, especially with players as old as the first line is.

Jagr, even at full strength slowed down last year as the season wore down.

Nylander and Straka would be having career years at 34 years old on top of that.

But this is exactly the false sense of security the team pulled itself into last year.

"Oh Jagr is motivated he won't slow down" and sure enough towards the end of the season, even if was getting pretty worn out.

This year he's getting even MORE icetime EARLIER. It doesn't take an expert to figure out that it'd be near impossible for him to keep playing as much as like he does all season.

And we can't assum Jagr will get himself back to full strength mainly because he is playing an unreal amount of time. We saw what resulted in last year. It shouldn't be a mystery a this year what the inevitable outcome will be.

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12-05-2006, 03:33 AM
  #38
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So often I watch opposing teams in the neutral zone dump the puck into the rangers zone only to see the rangers d-men react as if they didn't know that dumping the puck in is legal. If the D in the neutral zone were better maybe it would build enough confidence amongst the ranger d-men to not panic when defending in their own zone. opposing teams just walk into the rangers zone.

Ozo blows. And I don't care how much we're paying for a mistake. If we're stuck paying his salary whether he sees ice time or not, let's play pock and admit that a mistake has been made rather than just trying to justify ozo's salary by repeating that everything is going just fine with his play.

Isn't it possible for Kaspar to return to solid play at some point? I know he was quite the locker room presence and he certainly used to be a big presence on the ice. In Kaspar we have a player that could be useful if we could get him to stop moping over his divorce and play hard again. If someone could motivate him I don't see why he couldn't find some of his old form. If only someone could motivate him. Some sort of coach... He used to be an important part of the team.

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:55 AM
  #39
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From an outsider's PoV, who gets to watch your team a lot, and coincedentally, likes.., And for one reason or another, knows a bunch of your players pretty well...

First of all, you do not HAVE to have a dominant 1st pairing.... Last two teams who've won the Cup didn't have a Niedermayer or a Lidstrom on their blue line.
Your guys are actually underrated... For example Rozsival has such a bad reputation this season on these boards, guy's led the Rangers D in icetime, +/-, points, SH, PP IT... everything... and the team's had success... I dunno, maybe it's cos I watched the wrong games, but the guy always seems solid vs teh Sabres, while the guy you all love etc, Tyutin gets constantly torched. Then Rozsival throws a few hits, and all of a sudden he's not as hated. He's not flashy, plays positional and his good plays go under the radar... His mistakes are glaring (the slam dunk own goal vs Pens last year :O )... but overall, does the job most of the time.
( I can understand the Tyutin love, HF... youth >>>> everything)
Malik, while certainly playing worse than last season, is a servicable guy who's like +100 over the last 3 seasons. IMO, too long of a span for a coincedence, especially on three different teams. Those two guys, while certainly not #1-2 ideally, have been doing a decent job considering they're in over their heads. And yes, playing with Jagr helps... But when the Jagr line is getting pressured ES, those two boys have a hell of a job defending with Jagr and Nylander out there, who, even though they seem to be trying, are just not good defensive forwards.
Tytin has the potential to be a top-3 NHL defenseman. And IMO, has looked solid in games this season. Then downright awful in the other ones. He plays physical, but still has most mental breakdowns out of the top-4 guys.
Ward... doing his job. Dependable #4-#6 NHL defenseman.

IMO Rangers really have 3 major problems defending:

1 - TEAM DEFENSE ... as Trottier said, when people come at you with speed, you're toast... Doesn't matter if you're Niedermayer or Hatcher, odds are you'll be having problems defending the Blakes and the Afinogenovs at full speed...
This comes back to the forwards, and I gotta tell ya, Rangers 3rd and 4th line guys... Some of them can't score... But some of them aren't that great on D either

2 - BREAKOUT - watching Ranger D trying to get out of their zone in an organized manner... ugly...

3 - 3rd PAIRING - IMO; Malik-Rozsival, Tyutin-Ward is okay... Bit over their heads, but they can handle it most of the time. Rachunek-Ozo though... Absolutely unimpressed. An Ozolinsh who's no longer producing offensively? What's the point? And Rachunek's been far worse then what I expected after seeing him in Russia last season.

Anyway, two cents from an outsider...

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12-05-2006, 09:51 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
From an outsider's PoV, who gets to watch your team a lot, and coincedentally, likes.., And for one reason or another, knows a bunch of your players pretty well...

First of all, you do not HAVE to have a dominant 1st pairing.... Last two teams who've won the Cup didn't have a Niedermayer or a Lidstrom on their blue line.
Your guys are actually underrated... For example Rozsival has such a bad reputation this season on these boards, guy's led the Rangers D in icetime, +/-, points, SH, PP IT... everything... and the team's had success... I dunno, maybe it's cos I watched the wrong games, but the guy always seems solid vs teh Sabres, while the guy you all love etc, Tyutin gets constantly torched. Then Rozsival throws a few hits, and all of a sudden he's not as hated. He's not flashy, plays positional and his good plays go under the radar... His mistakes are glaring (the slam dunk own goal vs Pens last year :O )... but overall, does the job most of the time.
( I can understand the Tyutin love, HF... youth >>>> everything)
Malik, while certainly playing worse than last season, is a servicable guy who's like +100 over the last 3 seasons. IMO, too long of a span for a coincedence, especially on three different teams. Those two guys, while certainly not #1-2 ideally, have been doing a decent job considering they're in over their heads. And yes, playing with Jagr helps... But when the Jagr line is getting pressured ES, those two boys have a hell of a job defending with Jagr and Nylander out there, who, even though they seem to be trying, are just not good defensive forwards.
Tytin has the potential to be a top-3 NHL defenseman. And IMO, has looked solid in games this season. Then downright awful in the other ones. He plays physical, but still has most mental breakdowns out of the top-4 guys.
Ward... doing his job. Dependable #4-#6 NHL defenseman.

IMO Rangers really have 3 major problems defending:

1 - TEAM DEFENSE ... as Trottier said, when people come at you with speed, you're toast... Doesn't matter if you're Niedermayer or Hatcher, odds are you'll be having problems defending the Blakes and the Afinogenovs at full speed...
This comes back to the forwards, and I gotta tell ya, Rangers 3rd and 4th line guys... Some of them can't score... But some of them aren't that great on D either

2 - BREAKOUT - watching Ranger D trying to get out of their zone in an organized manner... ugly...

3 - 3rd PAIRING - IMO; Malik-Rozsival, Tyutin-Ward is okay... Bit over their heads, but they can handle it most of the time. Rachunek-Ozo though... Absolutely unimpressed. An Ozolinsh who's no longer producing offensively? What's the point? And Rachunek's been far worse then what I expected after seeing him in Russia last season.

Anyway, two cents from an outsider...
Thank you. My thoughts exactly. Just add poor, I repeat, poor goaltending to it and picture is complete. Our defense is adequate, not HOF, but enough to play in front of any above par goalie. We not going anywhere this year with goaltending like this.

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Old
12-05-2006, 01:31 PM
  #41
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Carolina won the Cup last season with Bret Hedican,Glen Wesley,Aaron Ward,Niclas Wallin,Mike Commodore and Frank Kaberle on defense.No #1 or #2 or #3 defenseman but a group they were successful

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12-05-2006, 01:45 PM
  #42
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Carolina won the Cup last season with Bret Hedican,Glen Wesley,Aaron Ward,Niclas Wallin,Mike Commodore and Frank Kaberle on defense.No #1 or #2 or #3 defenseman but a group they were successful
C.Ward made them look like stars. Same way last year Henke made us an ok team defensively. D and G are the subjects of mutual influence. Right combo makes not so great players to perform top notch.

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