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Please swap Ryder with Kovalev

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Old
12-04-2006, 08:17 PM
  #1
FF de Mars
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Please swap Ryder with Kovalev

I wish that Ryder played on the second line, with Samsonov. Place Kovalev with Koivu and Lats. Place Samsonov with the second line center (or Pleks) and Ryder. Carbo is plain dumb if he can't understand that Kovalev and Samsonov CAN'T play togheter. If you look at players stats, you can see that Ryder only has 7 goals, while Johnson has 6 goals, while Lats has 5 goals (even if he didn't play the whole season with Koivu), and while Perezhogin has 4 goals playing on the third line. I like Ryder, but he is NOT a first line player, he is a good second line player. On top of that, our second line is inneffective and I think Ryder, along with Samsonov, could cheer things up with less defencive coverage. Here would be my top two lines, until Higgins get back :

Lats-Koivu-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanek-Ryder

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Old
12-04-2006, 08:49 PM
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FF de Mars
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And this is not a doomsday we lost thread, because I though we would win this game when I wrote that, and Ryder scored one goal (tonight) when I wrote that. We were robbed by the refs and the guy who hit illegally Ryder, resulting in a goal, should have gotten a penalty... So don't accuse me of writing after we lost !

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12-04-2006, 09:14 PM
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GoHabsGO252006
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I wish that Ryder played on the second line, with Samsonov. Place Kovalev with Koivu and Lats. Place Samsonov with the second line center (or Pleks) and Ryder. Carbo is plain dumb if he can't understand that Kovalev and Samsonov CAN'T play togheter. If you look at players stats, you can see that Ryder only has 7 goals, while Johnson has 6 goals, while Lats has 5 goals (even if he didn't play the whole season with Koivu), and while Perezhogin has 4 goals playing on the third line. I like Ryder, but he is NOT a first line player, he is a good second line player. On top of that, our second line is inneffective and I think Ryder, along with Samsonov, could cheer things up with less defencive coverage. Here would be my top two lines, until Higgins get back :

Lats-Koivu-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanek-Ryder
Couldn't agree more i've been saying it for a while now.

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12-04-2006, 09:20 PM
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As soon as you take Koivu away from Ryder, his production's going to drop to a whole bunch of zeroes (Ryder's, not Koivu's).

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12-04-2006, 09:22 PM
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FF de Mars
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGO252006 View Post
Couldn't agree more i've been saying it for a while now.
Thanks. And by the way, since we don't have a winning combinasion to break, since we're loosing, I'd give Graboski a shot on the second line, for ten games or so, and if it doesn't work, I'd then try to look for a second line center.

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12-04-2006, 09:43 PM
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RE-HABS
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Kovalev isn't deserving of being on that top line, he doesn't have the work ethic or team attitude to be there...he is too selfish of a player and needs to be more consistant and work harder. The whole 2nd line doesn't mesh, Pleks isn't talented enough to be there, Sammy and Kovy are too individual and do too much with the puck and eventually lose it anyway.

The top line of Ryder-Koivu-Lats and 3rd Line of Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin have to stay as they are because they are working well, hopefully when Higgins comes back they will try him at centre and put him with Kovy and Sammy, if that can't work I think we need to look at shipping Sammy or even Kovy out, they aren't Carbo players and they aren't worth the cash they are being paid.

People have to realize that Kovy has played with the best and has still had difficulty being consistant and to produce poiints, he is too selfish and lacks a passion to elivate his play and he will never change....its Kovy that needs to adjust, not the coach adjusting the lines for one player not pulling is own.

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12-04-2006, 11:33 PM
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FF de Mars
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Kovalev isn't deserving of being on that top line, he doesn't have the work ethic or team attitude to be there...he is too selfish of a player and needs to be more consistant and work harder. The whole 2nd line doesn't mesh, Pleks isn't talented enough to be there, Sammy and Kovy are too individual and do too much with the puck and eventually lose it anyway.

The top line of Ryder-Koivu-Lats and 3rd Line of Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin have to stay as they are because they are working well, hopefully when Higgins comes back they will try him at centre and put him with Kovy and Sammy, if that can't work I think we need to look at shipping Sammy or even Kovy out, they aren't Carbo players and they aren't worth the cash they are being paid.

People have to realize that Kovy has played with the best and has still had difficulty being consistant and to produce poiints, he is too selfish and lacks a passion to elivate his play and he will never change....its Kovy that needs to adjust, not the coach adjusting the lines for one player not pulling is own.
Are you saying that Kovalev is not a good player enough to play with Koivu ?

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12-04-2006, 11:47 PM
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Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Are you saying that Kovalev is not a good player enough to play with Koivu ?
He is a good enough player when he puts in at least an 80% effort.

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12-05-2006, 01:13 AM
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FF de Mars
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He is a good enough player when he puts in at least an 80% effort.
Effort or not, he is a better player than Ryder by a wide margin. The effort which momentally makes him a superstar is a bonus.

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12-05-2006, 01:16 AM
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FF de Mars
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
As soon as you take Koivu away from Ryder, his production's going to drop to a whole bunch of zeroes (Ryder's, not Koivu's).
If he only scores when he is playing with Koivu --and what you say is very demeaning considering what Ryder has accomplished so far in his NHL career-- he should not be on our team. Anyways, I don't believe it's the case. I think that Ryder is a good player, and I think he can be a good player playing on the second line.

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12-05-2006, 01:25 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Kovalev isn't deserving of being on that top line, he doesn't have the work ethic or team attitude to be there...he is too selfish of a player and needs to be more consistant and work harder. The whole 2nd line doesn't mesh, Pleks isn't talented enough to be there, Sammy and Kovy are too individual and do too much with the puck and eventually lose it anyway.

The top line of Ryder-Koivu-Lats and 3rd Line of Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin have to stay as they are because they are working well, hopefully when Higgins comes back they will try him at centre and put him with Kovy and Sammy, if that can't work I think we need to look at shipping Sammy or even Kovy out, they aren't Carbo players and they aren't worth the cash they are being paid.[/QUOTE
Im pretty sure Ryder lose the puck as much as Kovalev but we never talk about it. And im pretty sure Kovalev is injured hence his lacks of intensity. Kovy's is more of a playmaker but his teammate on the second line is are not the best player to complete his play.

Quote:
People have to realize that Kovy has played with the best and has still had difficulty being consistant and to produce poiints, he is too selfish and lacks a passion to elivate his play and he will never change....its Kovy that needs to adjust, not the coach adjusting the lines for one player not pulling is own.
Kovy hasnt played with the best... As far as i know, he did not get the chance to play with a real 2nd center. So i agree that Carbo should put Kovy on the first line with our best center.

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12-05-2006, 02:33 AM
  #12
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What do you think about these line?

Ryder-Koivu-Kovalev (or Latendresse)
Samsonov-Bonk-Latendresse (or Kovalev)
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Jonhson

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12-05-2006, 02:49 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
What do you think about these line?

Ryder-Koivu-Kovalev (or Latendresse)
Samsonov-Bonk-Latendresse (or Kovalev)
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Jonhson
What if Kovalev continue to suck 5 on 5 with Koivu like it happened last year? Carbo isnt gambler at this point.. Dont remove the little trade value Kovy still has.. At least we can say he doesnt have a proven second line center to play with as excuse..

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12-05-2006, 03:07 AM
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I hate the idea of Kovalev with Koivu. Kovalev is at his best with the puck and that means you are wasting Koivu's talents. Besides it hasn't worked when it has been tried in the past. I think it would be a way better idea to swap Sammy with Ryder. This should help Samsonov out because Koivu always makes his wingers look better and it would also give Kovalev a shooter to bury the puck once he's done stickhandling all over the rink with it.

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:21 AM
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Qui Gon Dave
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
What do you think about these line?

Ryder-Koivu-Kovalev (or Latendresse)
Samsonov-Bonk-Latendresse (or Kovalev)
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Jonhson
I like them for the most part, although I would prefer to switch Plekanec and Bonk around. Otherwise, I'd like to see that combination given a chance.

Pez - Bonk - Johnson: This line doesn't really need an explanation as to why it should be kept together. Moving on...

Ryder - Koivu - Kovalev: The poster above mentioned that putting Kovalev and Koivu together hasn't worked in the past. Which at times has been true, but during the 03-04 playoffs they were on fire together. Also, in recent games and on occassion last year, they showed their chemistry, a good example of which is the play where Kovy holds the puck, waits for Koivu to make a drive to the front of the net and then puts a pass on his stick. They have great ability between them and have shown understanding of how the other plays. Its also said (and rightly so) that Koivu improves all his wingers. A quick question. If you could pick one winger from the habs current roster that you would like to see the most performance from, who would it be? Surely if we could get Kovalev going then that would only be a great thing for our team, right? If all our wingers play to their ability, then Kovalev is the best winger we have on the team. Put him with Koivu. As for putting Samsonov with Koivu, why would that work if putting Kovalev with Koivu wouldn't? They both play a similar game, only Kovy has a better shot (which we see far too little of). We have no idea if Sammy and Koivu would work at this point, but we have seen Kovalev and Koivu has worked in the past.

Adding Ryder on his off-wing to that line gives Ryder 2 linemates who can control the puck, draw attention to themselves (and away from him) and then make a pass. Ryder would have a better chance of finding the space he needs to be in to use his shot. And from his off-wing, he can one time it easily enough if he needs to. Besides, I'd love to see Ryder have success coming in from the left side boards and wiring his wrist shot into the net like his rookie year. Kovalev doesn't score as many goals as he used to, people say he likes to create plays. Put him with our best goal scorer then. And the two of them with Koivu will hopefully elevate the play of all three.

Samsonov - Plekanec - Latendresse: From the sounds of it, Sammy and Pleks have both been working hard recently but the results aren't there. Nobody is finishing on their current line. Putting Lats on his prefered RW will give the other 2 a chance to play their game and not worry about just throwing the puck on net as there will be someone in front of it, playing that type of game. And if Lats is always driving to the net and drawing attention to himself, that might allow the other 2 (particularly Samsonov) the chance to take things on himself. All three guys can move the puck well enough and pass it, so they could have some chemistry going forward, but we have at least one guy defensively responsible and 2 guys with speed if they need to rush back.

Of course, these changes might not work, but their is a chance we might get a number of good players picking up the level of their play. Ryder will hopefully score more regularly, a confident and effective Kovalev would be a danger to the opposition (and surely attract the top dmen from the other team, opening things up for the 2nd line and below) and Sammy could start to find his feet and produce more regularly. As for Latendresse and his development, he still would have some good players to get him the puck and he might not find himself on a line which draws the most attention from the other teams.

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Old
12-05-2006, 05:55 AM
  #16
joe sacco
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I think that if you take Kovalev off the second line the Bonk-Johnson-Perezhogin line will become the second line. Quite frankly I'd be a little worried having Lats-Sammy-Pleks out there together. While I'm not against the idea of reuniting Koivu/Kovalev I think that it should wait until Higgins gets back. Having three lines that can chip in is a strength right now.

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